Maine Shooting dozens dead or injured.

[Moonbeam]

You write a lot, but you don't really say anything.

You lack comprehension skills and are motivated not to see it.

See how easy that is.

 

[fskimospy]

Anecdotal evidence is of no relevance to me. My anecdotal evidence is that I owe a gun that has been in my family since before I was born that my father bought because of a peeping Tom. To my knowledge it has never been fired, certainly by me. I would like to shoot it but I can’t be bothered hiding a place I would feel comfortable with. I am not interested in firing ranges or unfamiliar geography. Need to buy some land but that also makes little sense.

Empirical evidence is of no relevance to you either as you keep ignoring that the empirical evidence overwhelmingly points to availability of guns as the decisive factor here.

 

[soulcougher73]

Gun violence is the result of access to guns.

Hold up now. Don't be putting the horse before the cart - GOP response.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

A wholesale change in society and social structures sounds a wee bit more complicated than limiting the access people have to tools that enable easy killing, but do go on.

You say that, but here we sit a quarter century from Columbine and we've had greater inroads when mental health from fucking kids shows than we have had on gun control. Keep tilting at those windmills though.

Do both? Get rid of guns AND work on a better future?

Sure, work on both with equal fervor. I'd appreciate that.

That is never going to happen.

We are humans after all. But making it harder is effective. Making it require more commitment is effective. Making it something you actually have to some some effort into is effective.


And yes, we can do something about the mental health crisis to, but that is going to be much harder to deal with. There simply are not enough providers.

So we've done nothing and we're out of ideas, then?

 

[MrSquished]

Both are caused by easy access to guns. Giet rid of easily accessed guns, and both mass murders and one off murders decrease.

You can literally read articles of these mass shooters. A number then bought the gun pretty soon before they did the mass shooting. But this is too complicated for morons like green man to work with

 

[Moonbeam]

Absolutely nothing in my post had anything to do with my motivation to ban guns - I was simply pointing out reality to you.

I understand that this reality makes you uncomfortable and so you are trying to find ways to ignore reality, but that's the thing about reality - it doesn't care what you think.

Other developed countries have the same mental illness struggles that we do but far lower gun violence and overall murder rates. This is a simple, obviously true observation. The reason is the relative lack of access to tools of murder. Voluminous research carried out in the US shows exactly the same correlation - murder is highly correlated with access to effective tools of murder.

I think murder is bad and would like to see less of it so I support banning guns entirely. If you don't, that's your business but you should just own that position instead of making up fairy tales about how guns are not the reason for our high murder rates.

I have not said that the ease of availability to gun ownership in a sick society does not track with the number of killings. I have said that gun grabbers acerbate the problem by the reactivity they generate In responsible gun owners. I believe you add to the porblen by the shallow way you local reasoning universally. You are profoundly logical but fall short on vital psychological understanding as to how the human psychology works. The same issue happens with the homelessness debate.

Your definition of reality is not real.

 

[Moonbeam]

The NRA that supported sensible gun regulation had essentially nothing in common with the gun nut NRA as it exists today. It was a nonpartisan sportsman club, basically.

How did it get that way? I think fear of people like you and the money that can be collected by turning you into an ‘other-enemy’.

You opt for the easy way out of the gun violence issue which is the insanity of self hate you are profoundly motivated not to see within you.

 

[HomerJS]

So if liberals bought all of the guns and say I own a thousand, it’s a thousand times more likely I will shoot someone, or thousand times more likely that nobody will be shot by them.

Guns have no motive power on their own. People pull triggers. Insane people, people who want others to pay for the hurt they feel they will not seek to cure. You are the cause of gun violence, the collective fear of feeling how badly we were made to feel. Some of us just have far worse cases than others.

Yet we are the only first world country that has this problem and all the others have the same mental illness. Think that "collective fear of feeling how badly we were made to feel" only exists in the United States?

You will never stop all mass murders. I don't think Jack the Ripper had an AR. We are trying to greatly reduce the numbers. I would love to see the knife wielding ninja that managed to kill 60 people in Las Vegas before someone managed to disarm him or people were able to run away.

 

[ivwshane]

I find it interesting that your definition of a proper nation is unfettered access to all guns.

Parents of the Sandy Hook victims would disagree with you.

He’s an authoritarian, authoritarians like guns because it allows the minority (them) to impart their will over the majority. It’s why they support the second and turn a blind eye to their parties infringement on the first amendment. To him the point of a civilized society is to allow the rich and powerful to become more rich and powerful. Equality, lending a helping hand, and taking care of the most vulnerable are all impediments to that goal.

 

[ivwshane]

We don't need a Constitution change to limit the type of firearms. Scalia specifically said so in Heller.

We don’t need an amendment either to ban guns for personal use. The current Supreme Court has showed us that precedent, logic, history, or even plain language, can all be ignored and any reasoning can be used to change the meaning of anything in the constitution. There is absolutely no reason an anti gun majority on the Supreme Court can’t ban guns outright for personal use. Along the same lines there is also absolutely no reason democrats can’t pack the court using any reason they see fit, the precedent has been set.

 

[fskimospy]

I have not said that the ease of availability to gun ownership in a sick society does not track with the number of killings. I have said that gun grabbers acerbate the problem by the reactivity they generate In responsible gun owners. I believe you add to the porblen by the shallow way you local reasoning universally. You are profoundly logical but fall short on vital psychological understanding as to how the human psychology works. The same issue happens with the homelessness debate.

Your definition of reality is not real.

haha - reality begs to differ with you as demonstrated in basically every other developed country worldwide.

There's simply no escaping reality. I know this is uncomfortable for you because you don't want to admit that guns are the problem. Unfortunately for you, the evidence is utterly overwhelming.

The guns are the problem and there's no way around it.

 

[fskimospy]

How did it get that way? I think fear of people like you and the money that can be collected by turning you into an ‘other-enemy’.

You opt for the easy way out of the gun violence issue which is the insanity of self hate you are profoundly motivated not to see within you.

I don't opt for the easy way (it wouldn't be easy!). I opt for the way that is proven to be effective worldwide.

This is all really just common sense.

 

[Greenman]

This country has virtually unfettered access to guns. The only roadblock is a felon and even some red states trying to remove that. Who needs good mental health? Who needs training?

You labeled this countries policies when it comes to guns as "proper" when someone suggested they may leave.

I will remind you once again, the 1994 assault weapons ban worked.

I absolutely did not label U.S. gun policy as proper. Go read the statement again.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are keeping track at all times of these thousand guns? Only you have access to these thousand guns, you are not a target for burglary due to being know as the guy who has one thousand guns?

If gun grabbing liberals but all the guns killers won’t have such easy access, no? But I am sure you want no real skin in the game.

Whatever befalls the fate of my guns, I am absolutely certain they are no threat to anyone that I would not have to prepare for. I don’t keep them loaded and ready to go. I like gums as things. They are works of engineering genius and art. I have some mechanical aptitude apparently, from tests I took long ago. I even found a mistake in the test and didn’t answer the question and got scored one wrong. I still remember the question.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't see where I said that I wanted unfettered access to guns, and I don't recall ever making that statement.

Just to clarify my position, it's my belief that a sizeable percentage of people are to stupid to own a firearm. A much smaller percentage are to sick to own one. The difference between the groups is that the stupid people generally kill one at a time, the sick people generally kill many at a time.
As far as body count goes, the stupid people are responsible the vast majority of shootings.

All of that said, I'm also of the opinion that there is no way to go back. We can disarm the average citizen by changing gun laws, the sick and stupid don't care about laws and will continue to kill for a verity of stupid reasons.

Using that same logic, why not get rid of all laws? After all laws are broken all the time. Law abiding citizens don’t break the law, criminals do.


What you’ve failed to realize is that laws do work and when you reduce the amount of arms in circulation you reduce the chances of criminals getting access to them. The goal isn’t to end all gun crime, it’s to reduce it. Just like credit card fraud still exists and will always exist but steps have been taken to reduce it and it’s much harder to commit.

 

[MrSquished]

Only first world country where this regularly happens. Republicans - nothing we can do about it.

What shitty fucking vile people.

 

[eelw]

The endless circle we go in every time this happens. Let’s hope the generation that grew up in these mass shootings actually invoke change

 

[Moonbeam]

Empirical evidence is of no relevance to you either as you keep ignoring that the empirical evidence overwhelmingly points to availability of guns as the decisive factor here.

There is anecdotal and empirical evidence. There is also experiential evidence that can be known only by those who taste. It is useless for me to tell you what you haven’t the shoulders to cary or to even convince you that such knowledge exists. As I have said, the truth is what you carry away from a ship wreck. I experienced one, everything about your appeals to logic suggest you have not. That doesn’t mean evolved beyond most thinkers in my opinion. Logic is valuable.

 

[MrSquished]

Let's just agree, Moonbeam is allergic to evidence.

 

[Zorba]

The answer to insanity is not more insanity. A majority of gun owners would welcome rational gun registration.

Except they vote for people who are against all gun control, including for the mental ill. Owning and carrying guns for "safety" already shows a pathological amounts of paranoia and fear. When you are living under the constant paranoia that you might have to kill someone at any moment to protect yourself, your definition of you need protection from goes way down. This is why we have so many "responsible" gun owners snap and kill their family members over basic arguments.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yet we are the only first world country that has this problem and all the others have the same mental illness. Think that "collective fear of feeling how badly we were made to feel" only exists in the United States?

You will never stop all mass murders. I don't think Jack the Ripper had an AR. We are trying to greatly reduce the numbers. I would love to see the knife wielding ninja that managed to kill 60 people in Las Vegas before someone managed to disarm him or people were able to run away.

You aim to fix some because you don’t believe we can fix all. I will get to that point when we stare a long way down the road of fixing the ones we can. I am for sensible gun control and a whole shit tone more. You and happy to fix what your limited understanding allows you to see.

 

[Moonbeam]

We don’t need an amendment either to ban guns for personal use. The current Supreme Court has showed us that precedent, logic, history, or even plain language, can all be ignored and any reasoning can be used to change the meaning of anything in the constitution. There is absolutely no reason an anti gun majority on the Supreme Court can’t ban guns outright for personal use. Along the same lines there is also absolutely no reason democrats can’t pack the court using any reason they see fit, the precedent has been set.

Yup.

 

[HomerJS]

Republicans put this up the day before the mass shooting. Sure, it really is all about mental illness.

Senate adopts gun provision among amendments to spending bill - Roll Call

The Senate began work on a three-bill appropriations package, adopting a provision Wednesday dealing with veterans' gun rights.

rollcall.com

As usual Fox News comes up with protection for Republicans with more brainwashing. Check out the headline for the same story which completely downplays the mental illness.

Senate passes Kennedy amendment protecting veterans' Second Amendment rights​

Just fucking amazing

 

[MrSquished]

btw, since last night the right has been calling this a false-flag operation or a liberal doing it. in reality. these fucking people are evil, when will enough of us understand this?

 

[eelw]

Except they vote for people who are against all gun control, including for the mental ill. Owning and carrying guns for "safety" already shows a pathological amounts of paranoia and fear. When you are living under the constant paranoia that you might have to kill someone at any moment to protect yourself, your definition of you need protection from goes way down. This is why we have so many "responsible" gun owners snap and kill their family members over basic arguments.

Indeed. The fortune cookie is about everyone else’s self hate. Have to wonder his paranoia while clutching his metal penis.