Lol, head of NVidia criticizes Dual GPU

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I'm pretty sure it will work in a similar fashion to the 3870X2, except it will use 2 PCBs instead of 1. I would imagine it will have some sort of 'bridge chip' to mate the two cards together.

Rollo, if it is indeed $449 it looks to be a great card on paper. When is the scheduled release date?

I have that info, but it's NDA at this point.

How about I just say "If I were considering a 3870X2 today, I'd wait a short while before buying, and then weigh my options".

We have been here before with you, haven't we?

Perhaps they should wait till June and get a real choice .. or October

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I'm pretty sure it will work in a similar fashion to the 3870X2, except it will use 2 PCBs instead of 1. I would imagine it will have some sort of 'bridge chip' to mate the two cards together.

Rollo, if it is indeed $449 it looks to be a great card on paper. When is the scheduled release date?

I have that info, but it's NDA at this point.

How about I just say "If I were considering a 3870X2 today, I'd wait a short while before buying, and then weigh my options".

Can you say when the NDA will be lifted?

All things being equal, AMD should be able to sell the 3870X2 for much cheaper than this new nVidia card.

I don't think people should wait. The current cards are more than enough for 95% of the games out there.

 

[Sind]

Originally posted by: nRollo

3. 7950GX2s worked in Vista as soon as SLi did

If you didn't have 4 GB of ram sure. There was no fix for that or any 7 series cards in SLI with 4GB of ram from January 2007 until middle of May 2007, 4 months after Vistas release. Removing components to run your video cards doesn't exactly rank up there with great driver development and support imo.

 

[BigMoosey74]

Originally posted by: biostud
why didn't they just release a 8900GTX 65nm, 384-bit bus compared to a 9800GX2, I would assume that would take a lot less engineering than the 9800GX2, and end up cheaper.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/v...ce_Graphics_Cards.html


They plan to but the NVidia needs to master the dual GPU solution in order to compete with ATI. If ATI makes a comparable or better GPU (which may be the R700) to what NVidia has lined up (GT200), their dual GPU on a single PCB would be far better than an NVidia single GPU solution.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Ackmed:

Instead of discussing my free hardware, why don't you refute the point I made with my links to independently conducted benchmarks?

I re-iterate: I haven't seen many benchmarks where a 3870X2 offers a different gaming experience than a 8800GTX. The GTX will slaughter a 3870X2 in any game that doesn't scale with CF. I see this as a "tie/lose" situation.

Prove me wrong if you can. (and saying I get free video cards doesn't prove me wrong, it only states the obvious)

I already did that with the link to the AT article didn't I?? I'm not sure why there's such a large difference between the 2 sites. Firingsquad or Anandtech? Your pick....AT is using a slightly better system and in some of the FS tests, there's clearly a CPU limitation. In no way am I trying to discredit FS...they're one of the best sites IMO...just trying to show that depending on where you look...the X2 performs a lot better.

Originally posted by: thilan29
I'm not sure why Firingsquad's and Anands numbers are so different but looking just at Bioshock, CoD4, and Crysis, in AT's review the X2 is noticeably faster in all three. It also wins in HL2:Ep2, Oblivion, UT3, the and Witcher by sizeable margins.

They seem to be using the same drivers but Firingsquad is using Vista-64 while AT is using Vista-32.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I'm pretty sure it will work in a similar fashion to the 3870X2, except it will use 2 PCBs instead of 1. I would imagine it will have some sort of 'bridge chip' to mate the two cards together.

Rollo, if it is indeed $449 it looks to be a great card on paper. When is the scheduled release date?

I have that info, but it's NDA at this point.

How about I just say "If I were considering a 3870X2 today, I'd wait a short while before buying, and then weigh my options".

We have been here before with you, haven't we?

Perhaps they should wait till June and get a real choice .. or October

Lol, qft...GTX 512 anyone??

 

[apoppin]

You remembered

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I'm pretty sure it will work in a similar fashion to the 3870X2, except it will use 2 PCBs instead of 1. I would imagine it will have some sort of 'bridge chip' to mate the two cards together.

Rollo, if it is indeed $449 it looks to be a great card on paper. When is the scheduled release date?

I have that info, but it's NDA at this point.

How about I just say "If I were considering a 3870X2 today, I'd wait a short while before buying, and then weigh my options".

Can you say when the NDA will be lifted?

All things being equal, AMD should be able to sell the 3870X2 for much cheaper than this new nVidia card.

I don't think people should wait. The current cards are more than enough for 95% of the games out there.

If I told you when NDA is lifted, I'd be telling you launch date.

In this case, it's close enough people should wait if the GX2 is of any interest to them. I'm not a propronent of holding out and waiting around on hardware either, but in this case, no one who waits is going to say "Curse you nRollo! That felt like forever!". It will be more like, "Thanks nRollo!"

As far as the "Wait for 512 GTX" references go, the people who did and bought them thanked me.

They did because the wait was only a few weeks, the $600 512 GTX stomped the $550 X1800Xt flat in the benches at launch, and then those people were able to Ebay those cards after they used them for $800-$900 dollars for the next 5 months.

I can't remember any other card that went UP in value $100s after you bought it and used it, ever.

The people who listened to me, waited, bought at $600-$650 launch price profited.

My prediction with the GX2 is people who listen to me, wait a short time, and buy on launch day will profit again.

The people who say I'll wait a week for the price to come down are the ones who will be bitter. When people see the performance of this card it will sell, and when it sells etailer pricing engines will jack the price, and then people who waited will lament their fate.

 

[apoppin]

My prediction with the GX2 is people who listen to me, wait a short time, and buy on launch day will profit again.

that was bold under nda

Oh-Oh ... i guess it means when translated - "Limited run" again?
:Q

How many more people will thank you? The lucky ones?


Is this a repeat of nvidia's 512GTX launch where there was massive price gouging and the people in the 'know' - the ones - who got it before it sold out on Day One [forever] - were rewarded?

Thanks, i will have my CC ready ... i need to make a few bucks
... and if so, a big welcome back!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

My prediction with the GX2 is people who listen to me, wait a short time, and buy on launch day will profit again.

that was bold under nda

Oh-Oh ... i guess it means when translated - "Limited run" again?
:Q

How many more people will thank you? The lucky ones?


Is this a repeat of nvidia's 512GTX launch where there was massive price gouging and the people in the 'know' - the ones - who got it before it sold out on Day One [forever] - were rewarded?

Thanks, i will have my CC ready ... i need to make a few bucks
... and if so, a big welcome back!

I should be clearer about that- I'm not advising that this card is going to become another 512 GTX that people should buy as an investment.

I'm saying rumored MSRP is low, and the price will likely go up after launch as many cards that are a good deal have done lately. (e.g. the 3870)

No idea as to whether this is a limited run, so don't buy 10 hoping to make $200 each like you could have with the 512 GTX.

I'm just saying it is my "hunch" this card will compare favorably to the 3870X2, and prices will likely go up when people start buying them.

 

[trajan2050]

http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2253573,00.asp
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/...w2LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...ce_8800_gts_oc_512mb/1

Case in point, while the Radeon HD 3870 X2 can deliver higher frame rates than the GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB, the latter delivered a much smoother gaming experience and thus much higher minimum frame rates.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?type=expert&aid=512
http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...HIS/HD_3870_X2/25.html

Despite all the fanboy BS, the 3870 is not universally liked and loses in many tests to the 8800 GTX. Yes it is the fastest card in a select few but it's margin does not make for a better gaming experience, and when it loses it loses big time.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nRollo
I'm saying rumored MSRP is low

You said it was gonna be $449! Was that a slip-up on your part?

Also, are you sure you can't tell us when the NDA will be lifted? Does it actually say it in that you can't?

How much do you know about future nVidia products like the G100?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: nRollo
I'm saying rumored MSRP is low

You said it was gonna be $449! Was that a slip-up on your part?

Also, are you sure you can't tell us when the NDA will be lifted? Does it actually say it in that you can't?

How much do you know about future nVidia products like the G100?

Heh- you really want me to break NDA, but I want to keep getting the info, so I can't.

I said the "rumored" MSRP is $449, and NDA date=launch date, so I can't give that out.

It won't be much longer dude. I don't know anything about G100, asked but that info exceeds my level of security. I get briefed on this stuff when the press does.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: nRollo
So I guess you don't have to hope Lopri, because:

1. The 7950GX2 worked out of the box.
2. 7950GX2 quad worked pretty well within 2 months
3. 7950GX2s worked in Vista as soon as SLi did
4. 7950GX2 SLi in Vista was not "abandoned"
5. NVIDIA themselves told me they plan to support upcoming multi GPU configurations in the long term

Is this a joke?

1. A product should work out of the box, that's a given. Not something to be proud of.
2. 7950GX2 quad worked well within 2 months.. How about you compare that with HD 3870X2?
3. 7950GX2 worked in Vista as soon as SLI did -> When was that?
4. 7950GX2 SLI in Vista was not abandoned -> where is the proof? Can you show me a decent number of modern games scaling 60~80% using two 7950GX2? Or even within one 7950GX2?
5. NV told you that their multi GPU solution is the long term - of course it is and it has been ever since its debut. But even if I take it as a face value, that'll only apply to recent, and upcoming NV GPUs. Not for 6800 GT nor 7950GX2. Their promise always begins 'From now on'

On the #5, AMD is no innocent and on CPU side they're even worse as we know. But that's a different story.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Do people really give FUDzilla any credibility these days?

I'd certainly give more credit to Fudzilla than to you. :laugh:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

My prediction with the GX2 is people who listen to me, wait a short time, and buy on launch day will profit again.

that was bold under nda

Oh-Oh ... i guess it means when translated - "Limited run" again?
:Q

How many more people will thank you? The lucky ones?


Is this a repeat of nvidia's 512GTX launch where there was massive price gouging and the people in the 'know' - the ones - who got it before it sold out on Day One [forever] - were rewarded?

Thanks, i will have my CC ready ... i need to make a few bucks
... and if so, a big welcome back!

I should be clearer about that- I'm not advising that this card is going to become another 512 GTX that people should buy as an investment.

I'm saying rumored MSRP is low, and the price will likely go up after launch as many cards that are a good deal have done lately. (e.g. the 3870)

No idea as to whether this is a limited run, so don't buy 10 hoping to make $200 each like you could have with the 512 GTX.

I'm just saying it is my "hunch" this card will compare favorably to the 3870X2, and prices will likely go up when people start buying them.

ten ?


i was thinking of three
... and maybe a new MB ...

... and crap ... i was hoping to make $600

 

[bryanW1995]

This is ridiculous. Nvidia has said time and time again that their next gen is going to be single gpu. They are coming out with ONE dual gpu card to win the pissing contest with amd. They did a very poor job of supporting 7950gx2 and they'll almost certainly do the same with 9800gx2. Will it be faster than 3870x2? Definitely, there is no reason for them to release it if it's not. Will it be a better card in 6 mos? Maybe, maybe not. AMD will have 6 driver updates in that span, nvidia will have one or two driver updates. Also, AMD will be getting ready for r700, which also appears almost certainly to be a dual gpu design, while nvidia will be preparing for g100, a single gpu design. Who's going to spend more time developing the dual-gpu concept? Hmmmm?

What about noise/power issues? As I predicted the other day, 9800gx2 is going to be HOTTER and LOUDER than 3870x2. It would be even if they were going for similar performance, but since they must win convincingly that card is going to need some serious cooling power. Remember what happened with 2900xt? All the rumors had it as a gtx-killer. It failed because they couldn't cool it efficiently at higher clock speeds. If you have h20 cooling then the 9800gx2 is your card. If you live on a scientific research station in antarctica, get the 9800gx2. If you have 2 2900xt's in crossfire, by all means go for it. If you read hardocp on a daily basis, get TWO 9800gx2's. But if you're just a normal dude who likes to crank up the AA while he's gaming on his 30" monitor, find another solution.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
This is ridiculous. Nvidia has said time and time again that their next gen is going to be single gpu. They are coming out with ONE dual gpu card to win the pissing contest with amd. They did a very poor job of supporting 7950gx2 and they'll almost certainly do the same with 9800gx2. Will it be faster than 3870x2? Definitely, there is no reason for them to release it if it's not. Will it be a better card in 6 mos? Maybe, maybe not. AMD will have 6 driver updates in that span, nvidia will have one or two driver updates. Also, AMD will be getting ready for r700, which also appears almost certainly to be a dual gpu design, while nvidia will be preparing for g100, a single gpu design. Who's going to spend more time developing the dual-gpu concept? Hmmmm?

What about noise/power issues? As I predicted the other day, 9800gx2 is going to be HOTTER and LOUDER than 3870x2. It would be even if they were going for similar performance, but since they must win convincingly that card is going to need some serious cooling power. Remember what happened with 2900xt? All the rumors had it as a gtx-killer. It failed because they couldn't cool it efficiently at higher clock speeds. If you have h20 cooling then the 9800gx2 is your card. If you live on a scientific research station in antarctica, get the 9800gx2. If you have 2 2900xt's in crossfire, by all means go for it. If you read hardocp on a daily basis, get TWO 9800gx2's. But if you're just a normal dude who likes to crank up the AA while he's gaming on his 30" monitor, find another solution.

Like 3 way SLi? BTW- I don't agree with some of what you said, but this is a pretty funny post- kudos!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
This is ridiculous. Nvidia has said time and time again that their next gen is going to be single gpu. They are coming out with ONE dual gpu card to win the pissing contest with amd. They did a very poor job of supporting 7950gx2 and they'll almost certainly do the same with 9800gx2. Will it be faster than 3870x2? Definitely, there is no reason for them to release it if it's not. Will it be a better card in 6 mos? Maybe, maybe not. AMD will have 6 driver updates in that span, nvidia will have one or two driver updates. Also, AMD will be getting ready for r700, which also appears almost certainly to be a dual gpu design, while nvidia will be preparing for g100, a single gpu design. Who's going to spend more time developing the dual-gpu concept? Hmmmm?

What about noise/power issues? As I predicted the other day, 9800gx2 is going to be HOTTER and LOUDER than 3870x2. It would be even if they were going for similar performance, but since they must win convincingly that card is going to need some serious cooling power. Remember what happened with 2900xt? All the rumors had it as a gtx-killer. It failed because they couldn't cool it efficiently at higher clock speeds. If you have h20 cooling then the 9800gx2 is your card. If you live on a scientific research station in antarctica, get the 9800gx2. If you have 2 2900xt's in crossfire, by all means go for it. If you read hardocp on a daily basis, get TWO 9800gx2's. But if you're just a normal dude who likes to crank up the AA while he's gaming on his 30" monitor, find another solution.

Like 3 way SLi? BTW- I don't agree with some of what you said, but this is a pretty funny post- kudos!

No, i think he meant Quad crossfire

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
This is ridiculous. Nvidia has said time and time again that their next gen is going to be single gpu. They are coming out with ONE dual gpu card to win the pissing contest with amd. They did a very poor job of supporting 7950gx2 and they'll almost certainly do the same with 9800gx2. Will it be faster than 3870x2? Definitely, there is no reason for them to release it if it's not. Will it be a better card in 6 mos? Maybe, maybe not. AMD will have 6 driver updates in that span, nvidia will have one or two driver updates. Also, AMD will be getting ready for r700, which also appears almost certainly to be a dual gpu design, while nvidia will be preparing for g100, a single gpu design. Who's going to spend more time developing the dual-gpu concept? Hmmmm?

What about noise/power issues? As I predicted the other day, 9800gx2 is going to be HOTTER and LOUDER than 3870x2. It would be even if they were going for similar performance, but since they must win convincingly that card is going to need some serious cooling power. Remember what happened with 2900xt? All the rumors had it as a gtx-killer. It failed because they couldn't cool it efficiently at higher clock speeds. If you have h20 cooling then the 9800gx2 is your card. If you live on a scientific research station in antarctica, get the 9800gx2. If you have 2 2900xt's in crossfire, by all means go for it. If you read hardocp on a daily basis, get TWO 9800gx2's. But if you're just a normal dude who likes to crank up the AA while he's gaming on his 30" monitor, find another solution.

Like 3 way SLi? BTW- I don't agree with some of what you said, but this is a pretty funny post- kudos!

No, i think he meant Quad crossfire

Or either one? For the sake of neutrality?

 

[apoppin]

Or either one? For the sake of neutrality?

i never compromise ... shoot me


Bryan's post was pretty clear ... and it wasn't a nvidia X2 solution

 

[zod96]

I'll wait for the single card product 9800 GTX

 

[bryanW1995]

Another solution could be a used 8800 ultra, a 3870x2, 8800gt/s/x sli, tri-sli, crossfire, quadfire, etc. All I'm saying is that based upon numerous comments from nvidia and their previous track record, it's obvious that 9800gx2 is a short-term solution designed as a filler to get them to g100. Now, based upon recent history it is reasonable to think that g100 will kick the crap out of 9800gx2 and anything that amd has to offer, but how long before it comes out? I think that we're going to be very close to the holidays before either camp has their next gen lineup available, leaving many people to roll the dice and play the "what if" game. You know, "what if 9800gtx is 50% faster than 3870x2 across the board? What if I wait for R700 and it barely outperforms 9800gx2? What if rollo becomes the next chairman of amd? Would he start touting quad sli as the ultimate gaming solution? What if nvidia hired apoppin to "test" out all their latest hardware? In fact, they should do that because apoppin almost single-handedly got amd through that 2900xt fiasco. What if apoppin and rollo met on celebrity death match? Sorry, I think I went OT about 15 min ago...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Or either one? For the sake of neutrality?

i never compromise ... shoot me


Bryan's post was pretty clear ... and it wasn't a nvidia X2 solution

Being able to compromise is a desirable character trait. You should learn.
Anyway, you should not post just after getting new hardware. You get, how can I say this, giddy? And maybe a bit swayed. But thats not your fault, anyone gets juiced over new stuff.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Another solution could be a used 8800 ultra, a 3870x2, 8800gt/s/x sli, tri-sli, crossfire, quadfire, etc. All I'm saying is that based upon numerous comments from nvidia and their previous track record, it's obvious that 9800gx2 is a short-term solution designed as a filler to get them to g100. Now, based upon recent history it is reasonable to think that g100 will kick the crap out of 9800gx2 and anything that amd has to offer, but how long before it comes out? I think that we're going to be very close to the holidays before either camp has their next gen lineup available, leaving many people to roll the dice and play the "what if" game. You know, "what if 9800gtx is 50% faster than 3870x2 across the board? What if I wait for R700 and it barely outperforms 9800gx2? What if rollo becomes the next chairman of amd? Would he start touting quad sli as the ultimate gaming solution? What if nvidia hired apoppin to "test" out all their latest hardware? In fact, they should do that because apoppin almost single-handedly got amd through that 2900xt fiasco. What if apoppin and rollo met on celebrity death match? Sorry, I think I went OT about 15 min ago...

Agreed. A single core monster GPU, "right now" is more desirable than any dual GPU setup. It has been quite a while since the 8800GTX came out. We are waaaaayy overdue for a new single GPU beast. One that lays waste to all. Whether it be AMD or Nvidia, or even Intel at this point. Anything new would be refreshing.

I still love my 8800GTS640 though. It takes good care of me.