Lol, head of NVidia criticizes Dual GPU

[Zap]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: n7
SLI/CF solutions on one card have a long way to go before being a truely good option,

Funny thing is it worked like a charm on the Voodoo 5.

3dfx had some earlier practice with dual GPUs.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: n7
Glad to hear nV feels single GPU solutions are still the best...

SLI/CF solutions on one card have a long way to go before being a truely good option, since there are still far too many drawbacks for it to be viable for many IMO.

Xfire works for me much better than i expected ... either they just improved it or my expectations were much lower than yours

so I take it that you finally got the 2900 pro oc'd properly?

Nvidia is probably having noise/heat issues with their multi-gpu cards b/c their chips run hotter than amd's do right now (65 vs 55nm). AMD rolled the dice with the 55nm and it has payed off handsomely for them thus far. I still think that 9800gx2 will be faster upon release than 3870x2, but nvidia appears to be long-term focused on single-gpu designs while amd is putting a lot more resources into mult-gpu. Also, word on the street is that 9800gx2 will be limited availability, probably just so that they can reclaim the gpu performance crown before the nextgen arrives.

Oh yeah ...

757/854 on the XT and 700/850 on the Pro [as far as CCC will take it without a BIOS flash]. What blew my mind is that i can get *separate* clocks on the core and vRAM and still stay in CrossFire with 'mismatched' GPUs .. and my overall performance is not much less than 2900xt/2900xt Xfire ... Temps are great!
... and my room is warm

 

[BFG10K]

What games made you do this? I dont mean to "call you out" or anything, im just curious. I used to use a voodoo5 (still have it) and never had to do this.

I still have mine too, and I'm curious as well. I don't even recall the drivers having the option to dissable one of the GPUs, let alone any games requiring it.

I don't have specific titles at the moment but I remember readme files in a few of my games having issues on a Voodoo 5 unless you disabled one GPU.

As for the setting, it was in the AA section labeled ?single chip only?.

In addition I've also seen issues like this one from the CFS2 readme:

Voodoo5
? Tool tips can cause a 90% drop in frame rate. Recommend replacing video card.

In general the Voodoo 5 had less issues than today?s multi-GPU solutions but that?s mainly because it was using a variant of SFR while today?s cards mostly use AFR. That and both current vendors use a lot of application specific optimizations.

I also recall it being about twice as fast as the Voodoo 4 when running 32bpp at higher resolutions, which is what Anandtech's benchmarks show:

SFR can get good scaling but it's generally inferior to AFR because, among other things, it doesn?t combine the vertex processing of the cards.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: m0mentary


Going off what you said, nvidia shouldn't even be bothering with the 9800GX2.

That's not what I said though.

The difference in the 9800GX2 will be that it will offer a level of performance high enough over the 8800GTX and Ultra, and close enough performance in games that don't scale, that it will be a win/tie scenario.

Sometimes discernibly higher performance, sometimes close enough to same performance. This is because the single GPUs in the 9800GX2 are much closer to a 8800GTX or 8800Ultra than a single 3870.

So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.

That is why the 9800GX2 is worthwhile. If the individual GX2 GPUs offered the level of performance a 3870 does, and two of them offered the same level a 3870X2 does, I'd agree with you.

Why not just SLI together a couple of 8800GTX'es? What does this new dual card bring to the table that is new? From the look of it, it's going to cost more to manufacture than the 3870X2, and will probably have more heat issues. Any word on the cost of the card?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Why not just SLI together a couple of 8800GTX'es? What does this new dual card bring to the table that is new? From the look of it, it's going to cost more to manufacture than the 3870X2, and will probably have more heat issues. Any word on the cost of the card?

A couple 8800GTXs would be better than this card, no doubt.

However, MSRP on this card is rumored to be $449, a little more than one GTX. (and this card will offer SLi to those who don't have SLi motherboards)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Why not just SLI together a couple of 8800GTX'es? What does this new dual card bring to the table that is new? From the look of it, it's going to cost more to manufacture than the 3870X2, and will probably have more heat issues. Any word on the cost of the card?

A couple 8800GTXs would be better than this card, no doubt.

However, MSRP on this card is rumored to be $449, a little more than one GTX. (and this card will offer SLi to those who don't have SLi motherboards)

so .. how it is rumored to work in SLi?

 

[will889]

I think he meant the equivalent of SLI (crossfire) with the 3870X2. nRollo made an nBoo-Boo.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.

So the 3870x2 never actually performs better than a GTX or Ultra?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=4

Looks like the x2 more than just "ties" the GTX.

So there are a lot of games benched where the 3870X2 performance looks similar or worse than a GTX, and the GTX would be the better to have as it offers that level of performance on all games, not just ones that scale well.

I think there are benches you can find that show higher averages and/or minimums for both cards, but that for the most part owning either you wouldn't notice the difference, which is my point. (except when a game doesn't scale, and then the GTX would slaughter the X2)

I'm not sure why Firingsquad's and Anands numbers are so different but looking just at Bioshock, CoD4, and Crysis, in AT's review the X2 is noticeably faster in all three. It also wins in HL2:Ep2, Oblivion, UT3, the and Witcher by sizeable margins.

They seem to be using the same drivers but Firingsquad is using Vista-64 while AT is using Vista-32.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.

So the 3870x2 never actually performs better than a GTX or Ultra?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=4

Looks like the x2 more than just "ties" the GTX.

So there are a lot of games benched where the 3870X2 performance looks similar or worse than a GTX, and the GTX would be the better to have as it offers that level of performance on all games, not just ones that scale well.

I think there are benches you can find that show higher averages and/or minimums for both cards, but that for the most part owning either you wouldn't notice the difference, which is my point. (except when a game doesn't scale, and then the GTX would slaughter the X2)

I'm not sure why Firingsquad's and Anands numbers are so different but looking just at Bioshock, CoD4, and Crysis, in AT's review the X2 is noticeably faster in all three. It also wins in HL2:Ep2, Oblivion, UT3, the and Witcher by sizeable margins.

They seem to be using the same drivers but Firingsquad is using Vista-64 while AT is using Vista-32.

from my own testing, it appears that Vista 64 IS a little slower than Vista 32 ... but not a lot of difference. Also, comparing from site to site, they might use different details and a slightly different platform

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: apoppin
from my own testing, it appears that Vista 64 IS a little slower than Vista 32 ... but not a lot of difference. Also, comparing from site to site, they might use different details and a slightly different platform

Hmm..major differences I see are quadcore 3GHz and 4gb or ram for AT and dual core 2.8GHz and 2gb of ram for Firingsquad...I wonder home much of a difference that would make.

 

[biostud]

why didn't they just release a 8900GTX 65nm, 384-bit bus compared to a 9800GX2, I would assume that would take a lot less engineering than the 9800GX2, and end up cheaper.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Why not just SLI together a couple of 8800GTX'es? What does this new dual card bring to the table that is new? From the look of it, it's going to cost more to manufacture than the 3870X2, and will probably have more heat issues. Any word on the cost of the card?

A couple 8800GTXs would be better than this card, no doubt.

However, MSRP on this card is rumored to be $449, a little more than one GTX. (and this card will offer SLi to those who don't have SLi motherboards)

so .. how it is rumored to work in SLi?

I'm pretty sure it will work in a similar fashion to the 3870X2, except it will use 2 PCBs instead of 1. I would imagine it will have some sort of 'bridge chip' to mate the two cards together.

Rollo, if it is indeed $449 it looks to be a great card on paper. When is the scheduled release date?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: biostud
why didn't they just release a 8900GTX 65nm, 384-bit bus compared to a 9800GX2, I would assume that would take a lot less engineering than the 9800GX2, and end up cheaper.

Because these cards aren't bandwidth-limited; the 256-bit 8800GT often beats out the 384-bit GTX based pretty much on pure clockspeed.

Remember, the 2900XT is a 512-bit card and it fails to beat many other cards with slower memory buses.

Right now it seems as though games like Crysis require massive amounts of shading power, and perhaps even re-designed GPU shader units that can handle more elaborate workloads.

 

[lopri]

Mr. Jen-Hsun was at a share holders meeting. What would you expect?

He really can't say a word to the community though, 7950GX2 was practically abandoned. Hope they don't repeat it with 9800GX2.

 

[ronnn]

Maybe Nvidia is having a slow down in reaching market with a product that works? PR guys are funny. :beer:

 

[lopri]

GeForce 9800GX2 is the next Quad-SLI-capable graphics card from NVIDIA as it sports dual GPUs in an attempt to take down Radeon HD 3870X2, and become the next flagship from NVIDIA. We've already told you that the card would be delayed until March, but we've been a bit uncertain as to why, but according to Fudzilla the reason is both simple and obvious. GeForce 9800GX has heat issues and the power consumption is apparently higher than the promised 250W. At the same time, the Quad-SLI scaling is far from what NVIDIA was expecting (we're not surprised though). We can't confirm this, but we're fairly confident he's on to something here. Sadly, the 9800GX2 is looking more and more like the 7950G

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7337.html

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: lopri
Mr. Jen-Hsun was at a share holders meeting. What would you expect?

He really can't say a word to the community though, 7950GX2 was practically abandoned. Hope they don't repeat it with 9800GX2.

This is not even close to true.

I've been using one or two 7950GX2 since the day they launched, without any issues.

Beyond that, instead of your speculation about what will happen with the 9800GX2, how about I just post what I was told in a conference call with some NVIDIA managers about the subject?

I told them there was concern in the community for the length of time it took for Quad Sli driver for Vista.

Their response was: "We're aware of that, and regret that prioritization of single card and standard SLi driver development for Vista delayed Quad SLi drivers for Vista. However, we are committed to supporting multi GPU configurations long term and do not consider them to be temporary solutions."

So I guess you don't have to hope Lopri, because:

1. The 7950GX2 worked out of the box.
2. 7950GX2 quad worked pretty well within 2 months
3. 7950GX2s worked in Vista as soon as SLi did
4. 7950GX2 SLi in Vista was not "abandoned"
5. NVIDIA themselves told me they plan to support upcoming multi GPU configurations in the long term

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: lopri

GeForce 9800GX2 is the next Quad-SLI-capable graphics card from NVIDIA as it sports dual GPUs in an attempt to take down Radeon HD 3870X2, and become the next flagship from NVIDIA. We've already told you that the card would be delayed until March, but we've been a bit uncertain as to why, but according to Fudzilla the reason is both simple and obvious. GeForce 9800GX has heat issues and the power consumption is apparently higher than the promised 250W. At the same time, the Quad-SLI scaling is far from what NVIDIA was expecting (we're not surprised though). We can't confirm this, but we're fairly confident he's on to something here. Sadly, the 9800GX2 is looking more and more like the 7950G

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7337.html

Do people really give FUDzilla any credibility these days?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I'm pretty sure it will work in a similar fashion to the 3870X2, except it will use 2 PCBs instead of 1. I would imagine it will have some sort of 'bridge chip' to mate the two cards together.

Rollo, if it is indeed $449 it looks to be a great card on paper. When is the scheduled release date?

I have that info, but it's NDA at this point.

How about I just say "If I were considering a 3870X2 today, I'd wait a short while before buying, and then weigh my options".

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.

So the 3870x2 never actually performs better than a GTX or Ultra?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=4

Looks like the x2 more than just "ties" the GTX.

Of course the 3870X2 wins a lot of tests. But hes getting paid by NV, to praise them, and try to show AMD in a bad light. The hardware he gets isnt free, its payment for posting such posts as this. Its nothing new. Sad, but nothing new.

If you have a problem with a posters information, then attack the information with your own evidence and information. Do not attempt to slander members to get your point across. Attack the information, and not the poster. You could have easily debated the data with your own links and evidence. Do not take the low road again.

Anandtech Moderator - Keysplayr2003

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: nRollo
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.

So the 3870x2 never actually performs better than a GTX or Ultra?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=4

Looks like the x2 more than just "ties" the GTX.

Of course the 3870X2 wins a lot of tests. But hes getting paid by NV, to praise them, and try to show AMD in a bad light. The hardware he gets isnt free, its payment for posting such posts as this. Its nothing new. Sad, but nothing new.

Ackmed:

Instead of discussing my free hardware, why don't you refute the point I made with my links to independently conducted benchmarks?

So far we've only established that the gaming experience of a 8800GTX is pretty similar to a 3870X2 in games that scale with CF (my post) and that I get free video cards (your post, my signature, and 99, 458 discussions about me getting free video cards).

If you want to actually disprove what I said, you should post links that refute it.

I re-iterate: I haven't seen many benchmarks where a 3870X2 offers a different gaming experience than a 8800GTX. The GTX will slaughter a 3870X2 in any game that doesn't scale with CF. I see this as a "tie/lose" situation.

Prove me wrong if you can. (and saying I get free video cards doesn't prove me wrong, it only states the obvious)

 

[her209]

LOL, what a tool. Of course the head of nVidia is going to trash the new AMD/ATI cards. What do you guys expect?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Instead of discussing my free hardware, why don't you refute the point I made with my links to independently conducted benchmarks?

If you want to actually disprove what I said, you should post links that refute it.

I re-iterate: I haven't seen many benchmarks where a 3870X2 offers a different gaming experience than a 8800GTX. The GTX will slaughter a 3870X2 in any game that doesn't scale with CF. I see this as a "tie/lose" situation.

Perhaps Firing Squad should also test resolutions which are optimized for Crossfire instead of picking the resolution in which Crossfire performs the worst. Eh?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: nRollo

Instead of discussing my free hardware, why don't you refute the point I made with my links to independently conducted benchmarks?

If you want to actually disprove what I said, you should post links that refute it.

I re-iterate: I haven't seen many benchmarks where a 3870X2 offers a different gaming experience than a 8800GTX. The GTX will slaughter a 3870X2 in any game that doesn't scale with CF. I see this as a "tie/lose" situation.

Perhaps Firing Squad should also test resolutions which are optimized for Crossfire instead of picking the resolution in which Crossfire performs the worst. Eh?

Resolutions that are optomized for Crossfire? What do you mean?

For the minimums they just used 16X10, probably because it's the most common monitor size.

There's about .0001% of us that use 25X16, so you can't mean that.

Which leaves us with 12X10 (which no one should buy a 3870X2 for) and 19X12 (where the GTX did pretty well against the 3870X2).

I don't get it.

 

[BigMoosey74]

Originally posted by: dingdong
It seems that despite the delay, the 9800X2 are still going to suck @ss.
The poor nvidia is finding some excuses now, but the investors just dont buy the bullshit
the stock of nvida just dropped $4.41 (-16.32%) today.

The game is just beginning..

Dude, that is exactly what I think. That thing has been delayed and laden with heating issues...I think they are pushing the clocks way past their limits to try to match the 3870x2.

The thing is...ATI having two GPUs on a single PCB is hands down a better solution than slapping two PCBs together any day. I think NVidia is feeling the pressure and trying to soften the blow when their x2 product flops.

I am not a fanboy of ATI or NVidia, but I am a fanboy of innovative technology and ATI get the win in this race even if the 9800x2 is better.