Lol, head of NVidia criticizes Dual GPU
- Thread starter thilanliyan
- Start date
I guess this guy was right. In any case, it's good that they're still backing single GPU cards, as it indicates that they have one coming up at some point in the future. I like high end cards but am staying away from anything multi GPU from either company until they get all the quirks ironed out.
It seems that despite the delay, the 9800X2 are still going to suck @ss.
The poor nvidia is finding some excuses now, but the investors just dont buy the bullshit
the stock of nvida just dropped $4.41 (-16.32%) today.
The game is just beginning..
The poor nvidia is finding some excuses now, but the investors just dont buy the bullshit
the stock of nvida just dropped $4.41 (-16.32%) today.
The game is just beginning..
apoppin
Lifer
Xfire works for me much better than i expected ... either they just improved it or my expectations were much lower than yours
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
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Except of course in games where you had to disable one GPU to get them to work properly.
Their scan-line method was akin to SFR/supertiling/scissors because both boards worked on the same frame so it was more compatible than AFR, but didn?t scale as well with performance.
Originally posted by: thilan29
Hehe, I wonder what he'll be saying once the GX2 is released?
He'll say the same same thing- he already says it in that article.
I've been saying the same thing for years, as have many others.
You're always better off to have a level of performance provided by one GPU, because multi GPU sets have trade offs. You deal with the trade offs to attain a higher level of performance and/or image quality than is attainable with a single GPU.
It's for this reason you can make an argument that a 8800GTX or Ultra is a better deal than a 3870X2.
I don't think I've seen a benchmark where the 3870X2 offer a level of performance in a game where the the 8800GTX or 8800Ultra wasn't just as playable, and in games that don't scale with Crossfire the 8800s would be much more playable.
So it boils down to: Is it better to have indiscernible framerate advantages in some games with a CF based card, or a card that plays the same in those games and totally owns in others?
Something to think about.
The 9800GX2 will presumably offer a differentiating level of performance over the single GPU sets, and have higher single card performance than a 3870, so it doesn't share the 3870X2s fate.
Skunkwourk
Diamond Member
- Dec 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: thilan29
Hehe, I wonder what he'll be saying once the GX2 is released?
He'll say the same same thing- he already says it in that article.
I've been saying the same thing for years, as have many others.
You're always better off to have a level of performance provided by one GPU, because multi GPU sets have trade offs. You deal with the trade offs to attain a higher level of performance and/or image quality than is attainable with a single GPU.
It's for this reason you can make an argument that a 8800GTX or Ultra is a better deal than a 3870X2.
I don't think I've seen a benchmark where the 3870X2 offer a level of performance in a game where the the 8800GTX or 8800Ultra wasn't just as playable, and in games that don't scale with Crossfire the 8800s would be much more playable.
So it boils down to: Is it better to have indiscernible framerate advantages in some games with a CF based card, or a card that plays the same in those games and totally owns in others?
Something to think about.
The 9800GX2 will presumably offer a differentiating level of performance over the single GPU sets, and have higher single card performance than a 3870, so it doesn't share the 3870X2s fate.
Going off what you said, nvidia shouldn't even be bothering with the 9800GX2.
Originally posted by: m0mentary
Going off what you said, nvidia shouldn't even be bothering with the 9800GX2.
That's not what I said though.
The difference in the 9800GX2 will be that it will offer a level of performance high enough over the 8800GTX and Ultra, and close enough performance in games that don't scale, that it will be a win/tie scenario.
Sometimes discernibly higher performance, sometimes close enough to same performance. This is because the single GPUs in the 9800GX2 are much closer to a 8800GTX or 8800Ultra than a single 3870.
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.
That is why the 9800GX2 is worthwhile. If the individual GX2 GPUs offered the level of performance a 3870 does, and two of them offered the same level a 3870X2 does, I'd agree with you.
Skunkwourk
Diamond Member
- Dec 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: m0mentary
Going off what you said, nvidia shouldn't even be bothering with the 9800GX2.
That's not what I said though.
The difference in the 9800GX2 will be that it will offer a level of performance high enough over the 8800GTX and Ultra, and close enough performance in games that don't scale, that it will be a win/tie scenario.
Sometimes discernibly higher performance, sometimes close enough to same performance. This is because the single GPUs in the 9800GX2 are much closer to a 8800GTX or 8800Ultra than a single 3870.
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.
That is why the 9800GX2 is worthwhile. If the individual GX2 GPUs offered the level of performance a 3870 does, and two of them offered the same level a 3870X2 does, I'd agree with you.
I understand why you said the 9800GX2 would be worthwhile, but I read your other statement
to be saying that regardless single GPU designs should always be pursued over multi (hence my statement that nvidia shouldn't bother with the 9800GX2).
So the 3870x2 never actually performs better than a GTX or Ultra?
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=4
Looks like the x2 more than just "ties" the GTX.
RadiclDreamer
Diamond Member
- Aug 8, 2004
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What games made you do this? I dont mean to "call you out" or anything, im just curious. I used to use a voodoo5 (still have it) and never had to do this.
It does; for a lot of games. I wonder if it's just people repeating what we've all heard forever-- that Xfire is no good. Now that they're ironing out some of the kinks, it might take some time until people stop repeating it.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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Does anyone actually read the article?
?If you want to put two GPUs on an add-in card and you deliver the absolute highest performance in the world, the enthusiast that uses that particular PC will certainly tolerate the fact that it?s a much larger solution. But if it?s not the highest performance solution in the world, as in the case of the X2, then it?s just really problematic. You know, there?s no market really for a product that?s larger, louder, and not as high performance. So, I think that GeForce 8800 GTX is still absolutely the best DX10 and highest graphics performance GPU in the world,? said Jen-Hsun Huang, the president and chief executive officer of Nvidia Corp.
********
i.e. Dual GPU solutions are great if they provide industry leading performance across the board, which he accuses the X2 of not having. Obviously, he's intimating the 9800GX2 will be the top performer in every app by some margin, making the extra inconveniences of a dual chip GPU worthwhile.
He may be right or wrong about the gx2, but to say he's criticizing all dual gpu solutions isn't accurate.
?If you want to put two GPUs on an add-in card and you deliver the absolute highest performance in the world, the enthusiast that uses that particular PC will certainly tolerate the fact that it?s a much larger solution. But if it?s not the highest performance solution in the world, as in the case of the X2, then it?s just really problematic. You know, there?s no market really for a product that?s larger, louder, and not as high performance. So, I think that GeForce 8800 GTX is still absolutely the best DX10 and highest graphics performance GPU in the world,? said Jen-Hsun Huang, the president and chief executive officer of Nvidia Corp.
********
i.e. Dual GPU solutions are great if they provide industry leading performance across the board, which he accuses the X2 of not having. Obviously, he's intimating the 9800GX2 will be the top performer in every app by some margin, making the extra inconveniences of a dual chip GPU worthwhile.
He may be right or wrong about the gx2, but to say he's criticizing all dual gpu solutions isn't accurate.
He shouldn't be intimating that because the GX2 won't be fastest in EVERYTHING....proper scaling won't work in EVERY game...especially not initially.
This is the head of one company talking about a product from another company...need I say more? It's just ironic in this case since his company is just about to release a dual-GPU card as well.
It depends on what your particular needs are. I know it has an odd limitation that wouldn't affect most people but would make me drop my resolution and/or refresh rate down from what a single card can do. It is also possible that it suffers from the same vsync/TB problems that occur on SLI, going by an article I read on that recently.
Originally posted by: thilan29
So the 3870x2 never actually performs better than a GTX or Ultra?
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=4
Looks like the x2 more than just "ties" the GTX.
I didn't say it "never wins", but look:
FEAR minimums
GTX = 47fps, 3870X2= 20fps We know which would be smoother running there.
COH minimums
GTX=52fps, 3870X2 = 36fps
COH DX10 minimums
GTX =17fps, 3870X2 = 10fps
Oblivion minimums
GTX= 39fps, 3870X2 = 65fps
HL2 EP2
No minimums listed here for some reson, but there would be no perceptible performance difference at these averages, unless one has a much lower minimum.
Lost Planet
The only averages above 30fps on the page are the GTX and Ultra.
COD4
Again, no way to tell the difference here without counter on with these averages.
Crysis
Per usual, nothing runs Crysis well, but the 3870X2 trails in all benches.
Bioshock minimums
GTX=58, 3870X2 =54
So there are a lot of games benched where the 3870X2 performance looks similar or worse than a GTX, and the GTX would be the better to have as it offers that level of performance on all games, not just ones that scale well.
I think there are benches you can find that show higher averages and/or minimums for both cards, but that for the most part owning either you wouldn't notice the difference, which is my point. (except when a game doesn't scale, and then the GTX would slaughter the X2)
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
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I still have mine too, and I'm curious as well. I don't even recall the drivers having the option to dissable one of the GPUs, let alone any games requiring it. I also recall it being about twice as fast as the Voodoo 4 when running 32bpp at higher resolutions, which is what Anandtech's benchmarks show:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1229&p=8
bryanW1995
Lifer
- May 22, 2007
- 11,144
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Originally posted by: apoppin
Xfire works for me much better than i expected ... either they just improved it or my expectations were much lower than yours
so I take it that you finally got the 2900 pro oc'd properly?
Nvidia is probably having noise/heat issues with their multi-gpu cards b/c their chips run hotter than amd's do right now (65 vs 55nm). AMD rolled the dice with the 55nm and it has payed off handsomely for them thus far. I still think that 9800gx2 will be faster upon release than 3870x2, but nvidia appears to be long-term focused on single-gpu designs while amd is putting a lot more resources into mult-gpu. Also, word on the street is that 9800gx2 will be limited availability, probably just so that they can reclaim the gpu performance crown before the nextgen arrives.
bryanW1995
Lifer
- May 22, 2007
- 11,144
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: m0mentary
Going off what you said, nvidia shouldn't even be bothering with the 9800GX2.
That's not what I said though.
The difference in the 9800GX2 will be that it will offer a level of performance high enough over the 8800GTX and Ultra, and close enough performance in games that don't scale, that it will be a win/tie scenario.
Sometimes discernibly higher performance, sometimes close enough to same performance. This is because the single GPUs in the 9800GX2 are much closer to a 8800GTX or 8800Ultra than a single 3870.
So the 9800GX2 is a win/tie scenario, and the 3870X2 is a tie/lose scenario.
That is why the 9800GX2 is worthwhile. If the individual GX2 GPUs offered the level of performance a 3870 does, and two of them offered the same level a 3870X2 does, I'd agree with you.
9800gx2 will almost certainly NOT be a radical improvement upon 8800 gtx and ultra in games that don't scale well because of noise/heat issues. This card will have the same issues that 2900xt had, meaning that it will be tough to clock it high enough without using a wormhole to suck out all the heat. If it's stuck using just one gpu or doesn't scale well then it won't even keep up with an 8800gts512, much less an ultra.
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