list of whats in the HC Bill

[woolfe9999]

Prove it. Show me some polls where a "slight majority" like the bill.

You are full of shit. Most Americans do NOT want a big federal government, that is NOT erroneous. Just because you like a big instrusive powerful fed doesnt mean most Americans do. Again, back it up with a poll, or any sort of evidence.

Actually, there are a couple polls which show a slight majority liking the bill, i.e. Yougov/Poletrix, Kaiser. But those polls are outliers. In any event, that was not my point. I didn't say a majority like the bill. My statement wasn't about how many like or dislike the bill, but the reasons why people like or dislike the bill. The trouble is you have a narcissistic fantasy that everyone who opposes the bill opposes it for the same reason that you oppose it.

Point number 1:

Take a look at the NBC/WSJ poll:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/wsjnbcpoll03162010.pdf

It asks the question in two different ways. First, it asks if people think that the bill is a "good idea" or a "bad idea." It comes out to 36/48 bad/good. Then it asks whether it is better to pass this bill, or else scrap the bill and keep the current system. It comes out to 46/45 in favor of pass the bill.

Now here's a question, who do you think mainly comprises the 10% in the favorable bloc between those two questions? It certainly isn't conservatives and likely not many independents. It's liberals.

Point number 2:

Every poll that has asked about the public option (i.e. a new government insurance program) shows it polling with solid public support.

(57/40 in favor)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...0/20/GR2009102000148.html?sid=ST2009101902502

(60% favor)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B20OL20091203

(50/42 favor)
http://www.newsweek.com/media/84/1001_ftop_v2.pdf

Point number 3:

Progressive pundits, bloggers and journalists have for months been inundating the airwaves with strident anti-bill rhetoric, all of it based on the argument that the bill doesn't provide new government insurance, either in the form of a public option or a single payor system. They have been saying it is corporate welfare for insurance companies and that the bill should be killed. It's MSN; it's Huffington Post; it's Firedoglake, and many, many others. The progressive opposition has died down a little over the past two months, but much of it still remains.

These are people who oppose the bill for reasons diametrically opposite of why you oppose it, and they represent a significant bloc of voters, in the vicinity of 10%. Add those to people who support the bill, and you are right about even. Those who oppose the bill for reasons same or similar to why you oppose it represent, at best, half the electorate.

My assertion stands.

- wolf

 

[nonlnear]

List your definition, then, deadbeat.

The common definition is some variant of: a person who does not pay their financial obligations.
Yours seems to be: a person that First dislikes for some reason.

 

[First]

The common definition is some variant of: a person who does not pay their financial obligations.
Yours seems to be: a person that First dislikes for some reason.

rofl, what? So by that definition of deadbeat includes millionaire Nicolas Cage because he's going bankrupt.

EDIT: Oh, that could be it too, but lazyness is probably up there too.

 

[nonlnear]

rofl, what? Please cite and link this definition of deadbeat you just made up off the top of your head.

By the way, that definition of deadbeat includes millionaire Nicolas Cage because he's going bankrupt.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deadbeat+definition

And yes, Nicholas Cage would fall into that category.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You know, that's where the partisan hacks and other associated idiots in that large you people camp get things so wrong. Getting one good thing along with one bad thing isn't a good deal. Getting one good thing along 5 bad things isn't a good deal, getting one good thing while being analy probed still isn't a good deal.
I love a nice t-bone. If it's served with 3 inches of manure around it, no amount of washing is going to get me to bit into that thing. We've just been served one of many shit sandwiches promised by the nut balls currently in charge and the fact that you and so many others are willing to step up at the dining table is an embarrassment for americana.

:thumbsup:

 

[First]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deadbeat+definition

And yes, Nicholas Cage would fall into that category.

So if millionaires fall into that category you shouldn't object to 100K persons being called deadbeats, not sure why you got your panties in a wad over that before. Of course, that's an outdated and thin definition as at this point plenty of people making a middle class income with 2 kids and a dog can't pay their financial obligations. Calling them deadbeats would be quite laughable. Some lazy 20-something who got his 100K job from his daddy's business and can pay his obligations, for example, is quite a bit more of a "deadbeat" than a hard working middle class American father who doesn't know how to manage his money.

 

[nonlnear]

So if millionaires fall into that category you shouldn't object to 100K persons being called deadbeats, not sure why you got your panties in a wad over that before. Of course, that's an outdated and thin definition as at this point plenty of people making a middle class income with 2 kids and a dog can't pay their financial obligations. Calling them deadbeats would be quite laughable. Some lazy 20-something who got his 100K job from his daddy's business and can pay his obligations, for example, is quite a bit more of a "deadbeat" han a hard working middle class American father who doesn't know how to manage his money.

Your ass is still leaking definitions...

 

[First]

Your ass is still leaking definitions...

Now that's a comeback a deadbeat would be proud of.

Btw, I like how you had to google deadbeat for a definition.

 

[nick1985]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=deadbeat

I'm a fan of definitions 2 and 3

 

[nonlnear]

Now that's a comeback a deadbeat would be proud of.

And now you forgot to wipe.

Btw, I like how you had to google deadbeat for a definition.

You do realize you asked for a link, right? Do you always ridicule people who oblige you?

 

[First]

And now you forgot to wipe.
You do realize you asked for a link, right? Do you always ridicule people who oblige you?

No, you had to look it up before I asked.

Btw, solid wimp-out on the examples of financially "competent" deadbeats. Your deflections rival many of the deadbeats here.

 

[dainthomas]

Is there any topic that CAN'T be turned into a grammar thread?

 

[Descartes]

I agree. So why was the solution to put a few good ideas into 2700+ pages of giant bearucratic shit, full of special deals and expansion of federal government?

Thats why there is outrage from most Americans.

Eh, I think that's bullshit. Most Americans can't point out Washington DC on a map, let alone spend enough time to understand what's going on with this bill. They're regurgitating their respective talking points and expressing rage because other people told them to do so.

Sadly, you give us too much credit. As a people, we're purely automatons of the media and their spin.

 

[dmcowen674]

this law will TAX the shit out of us.

I bolded the important part.

Everyone gets taxed the shit out of.

If you don't like that suggests you weren't paying your fair share.

 

[shiner]

I bolded the important part.

Everyone gets taxed the shit out of.

If you don't like that suggests you weren't paying your fair share.

I will buy you a ticket to Somalia right now if you promise to stay there and never come back.

 

[nick1985]

Eh, I think that's bullshit. Most Americans can't point out Washington DC on a map, let alone spend enough time to understand what's going on with this bill. They're regurgitating their respective talking points and expressing rage because other people told them to do so.

Sadly, you give us too much credit. As a people, we're purely automatons of the media and their spin.

Americans are too dumb to understand this amazing bill.

Gotcha

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I bolded the important part.

Everyone gets taxed the shit out of.

If you don't like that suggests you weren't paying your fair share.

No, buffoon, it means we are sick and tired of paying a huge amount of taxes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
I bolded the important part.

Everyone gets taxed the shit out of.

If you don't like that suggests you weren't paying your fair share.

No, buffoon, it means we are sick and tired of paying a huge amount of taxes.

Then leave. You are free to find a country more suitable in the tax range you feel is your fair share to pay. This one apparently is not it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Then leave. You are free to find a country more suitable in the tax range you feel is your fair share to pay. This one apparently is not it.

You're the idiot who stated that you didn't care if the US became like Somalia. Maybe it is time for you to leave. Shiner offered to buy the ticket. I'll offer to arrange for a jeep full of deranged warlords to pick you up at their...ahem...."airport."

 

[Descartes]

Americans are too dumb to understand this amazing bill.

Gotcha

Typical hyperbole, not able to keep a basic argument. I didn't say it's an amazing bill or that Americans are dumb.

But hey, if that's the fuel you need to keep fired up, by all means proceed.

[edit]Ok, maybe I did imply Americans are dumb. Less dumb, more stupid; we're willfully ignorant and can't see the forest for the trees because we won't even acknowledge the trees exist.[/edit]

 

[Descartes]

You know, that's where the partisan hacks and other associated idiots in that large you people camp get things so wrong. Getting one good thing along with one bad thing isn't a good deal. Getting one good thing along 5 bad things isn't a good deal, getting one good thing while being analy probed still isn't a good deal.
I love a nice t-bone. If it's served with 3 inches of manure around it, no amount of washing is going to get me to bit into that thing. We've just been served one of many shit sandwiches promised by the nut balls currently in charge and the fact that you and so many others are willing to step up at the dining table is an embarrassment for americana.

Sorry, but that's absurd to the infinite degree. Anyone in any leadership position understands that every good has a bad, and sometimes it's bad for quite a while before the good even has a chance to surface. Sometimes the good wins, sometimes not. It's how agile you are and how quickly you can adapt that matters.

If you've ever had to make a decision that affects your livelihood and those of others, you'd know that's bullshit. There's not a single bill that could ever be introduced that would be without bad.

And I'm not saying I like the bill. I don't. There's some good, some bad. But no bill could be introduced by either party, by any politician, that wouldn't detrimentally affect someone. If there is any truth to the failure of American politics, it's that we can't make a WRONG decision and accept it as such, move on and improve; instead, we make a wrong decision and fight it to the death leaving bodies behind us. The system can't improve, it can't innovate and thus we stagnate.

 

[nonlnear]

No, you had to look it up before I asked.

LOLWUT?

Btw, solid wimp-out on the examples of financially "competent" deadbeats. Your deflections rival many of the deadbeats here.

How did I wimp out? You didn't ask a question. you pratteld on and failed to make a cogent point.

View Post
So if millionaires fall into that category you shouldn't object to 100K persons being called deadbeats, not sure why you got your panties in a wad over that before. Of course, that's an outdated and thin definition as at this point plenty of people making a middle class income with 2 kids and a dog can't pay their financial obligations. Calling them deadbeats would be quite laughable. Some lazy 20-something who got his 100K job from his daddy's business and can pay his obligations, for example, is quite a bit more of a "deadbeat" han a hard working middle class American father who doesn't know how to manage his money.

When did I ever say that a financially competent person was a deadbeat? You are putting words in my mouth that I would puke on. A person going through bankruptcy is not financially competent. Income is irrelevant.

 

[First]

LOLWUT?

I can cut and paste that again if you're still confused.

How did I wimp out? You didn't ask a question. you pratteld on and failed to make a cogent point.

I made a fairly obvious comparison between varying levels of financial indebtedness in the case of a nepotistic father and son and a working family man and said one was a deadbeat and the other was not, proving your limited definition of deadbeat easily false. Judging by this above statement you apparently didn’t deflect; you failed to grasp. Sad in either case.

When did I ever say that a financially competent person was a deadbeat? You are putting words in my mouth that I would puke on. A person going through bankruptcy is not financially competent. Income is irrelevant.

You’re confused kiddo, I never said you said a financially competent person was a deadbeat. Read carefully and note rhetoric and quotes.

 

[Darwin333]

So.. you say Im not paying NOW for that guy with no insurance in the ER getting treated and sent home with a $3000 bill. Or if admitted, sent home with a $100,000+ bill?
Yeah... Right...

So when all the tax increases and health insurance preimiums I pay are added up, I will be paying no more correct? Since I am already paying for it I don't understand why I would pay more for the same thing. Using your arguments, I should see a decrease in total costs (taxes to pay for insurance and insurance) right?

Somehow I doubt that is going to happen, if not then why should I be double billed (again, you said I am already paying for it)?

 

[nonlnear]

I can cut and paste that again if you're still confused.

Feel free. One of us has forum dyslexia apparently. I would be grateful if you could help diagnose mine.

I made a fairly obvious comparison between varying levels of financial indebtedness in the case of a nepotistic father and son and a working family man and said one was a deadbeat and the other was not, proving your limited definition of deadbeat easily false.

No you didn't prove anything false. All you proved was that you are redfining the word to mean whatever you want it to mean.

Judging by this above statement you apparently didn’t deflect; you failed to grasp. Sad in either case.

There is plenty of sadness in this exchange, that's for sure!

You’re confused kiddo, I never said you said a financially competent person was a deadbeat. Read carefully and note rhetoric and quotes.

Okay, so you implied that I believe that a financially "competent" person can be a deadbeat. I reserve the word competent for times when I mean competent, not when I mean not competent. There are shades of connotation that are not effectively conveyed by the quotes and it's totally unclear what you mean - given, as you say here, that you did not mean competent. Did you mean somewhat competent, slightly incompetent, or totally incompetent? Please clarify...

As to minding rhetoric, I can't give you that much credit because that's a couple grade levels beyond a dictionary.