list of whats in the HC Bill

[Darwin333]

Then leave. You are free to find a country more suitable in the tax range you feel is your fair share to pay. This one apparently is not it.

Thats a pain in the ass. Much easier to spend a bit more on a better accountant and tax attorney.

Thats the amusing part, its us suckers in the middle class that really get hit. The upper class have the cake and the clout to "massage" their finances and reduce their tax liability. Since these people own the Democrats and the Republicans that won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[Darwin333]

This is not an accurate reflection of polling data. If you add liberals who don't like the bill because it doesn't provide a new government insurance program to the bill supporters, the resulting number is even to a slight majority. That means "most Americans do not want a big federal government" is erroneous, insofar as it purports to explain why so many people don't like the bill.

- wolf

Allow me to rephrase that.

Most people want all the "free" they can get, even if that means huge federal government. However, most people do not want to pay for it and frankly, we are used to not paying for it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Dave:

Are you wiling to up your "donations" to cover those that have refused to get insurance.

IF so; how muuch - in dollars or percentage.

You state, what ever it takes to be FAIR - what are you willing to contirbute - you are asking others to pay up; what about you?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If hot air were a commodity, Dave would be a billionaire. Of course he wouldn't up his "contribution." Most of these guys wouldn't, of course; they just like to talk a big game. Spending other people's money is so much more enjoyable than spending your own.

 

[First]

Feel free. One of us has forum dyslexia apparently. I would be grateful if you could help diagnose mine.

I can’t help diagnose a problem you won’t seek treatment for.

No you didn't prove anything false. All you proved was that you are redfining the word to mean whatever you want it to mean.

I’m defining it in a perfectly acceptable way and making sure you know how ridiculous it sounds to use in the context you used it in which, apparently, flew over your head the first time around. I guess you’re back for seconds.

There is plenty of sadness in this exchange, that's for sure!

Right, just not in the way you think. lmao.

Okay, so you implied that I believe that a financially "competent" person can be a deadbeat. I reserve the word competent for times when I mean competent, not when I mean not competent. There are shades of connotation that are not effectively conveyed by the quotes and it's totally unclear what you mean - given, as you say here, that you did not mean competent. Did you mean somewhat competent, slightly incompetent, or totally incompetent? Please clarify...

All you had to do was ask for clarification before instead of pretending to be smart. Here, I’ll cut and paste what I said before since you’re a bit slow on the uptake: So if millionaires fall into that category you shouldn't object to 100K persons being called deadbeats, not sure why you got your panties in a wad over that before. Of course, that's an outdated and thin definition as at this point plenty of people making a middle class income with 2 kids and a dog can't pay their financial obligations. Calling them deadbeats would be quite laughable. Some lazy 20-something who got his 100K job from his daddy's business and can pay his obligations, for example, is quite a bit more of a "deadbeat" than a hard working middle class American father who doesn't know how to manage his money.

Your response to that: Your ass is still leaking definitions.... Or in other words, “I’m intellectually dimwitted”.

As to minding rhetoric, I can't give you that much credit because that's a couple grade levels beyond a dictionary.

Comedy isn’t your strength, hula hooping may be more your speed.

 

[dwell]

Yea. I get to pick up the tab for some low life and his shitty family to get health care. Less incentive for human garbage to get jobs is all.

 

[lupi]

Sorry, but that's absurd to the infinite degree. Anyone in any leadership position understands that every good has a bad, and sometimes it's bad for quite a while before the good even has a chance to surface. Sometimes the good wins, sometimes not. It's how agile you are and how quickly you can adapt that matters.

If you've ever had to make a decision that affects your livelihood and those of others, you'd know that's bullshit. There's not a single bill that could ever be introduced that would be without bad.

And I'm not saying I like the bill. I don't. There's some good, some bad. But no bill could be introduced by either party, by any politician, that wouldn't detrimentally affect someone. If there is any truth to the failure of American politics, it's that we can't make a WRONG decision and accept it as such, move on and improve; instead, we make a wrong decision and fight it to the death leaving bodies behind us. The system can't improve, it can't innovate and thus we stagnate.

no, that's where you find compromise. this has no real compromise. it was made to spite compromise and turns from bad to worse. absent of going government provides care for all and all insurance companies close immediately, this bill couldn't be much worse other than increase tax/fee rates.

 

[nageov3t]

Yea. I get to pick up the tab for some low life and his shitty family to get health care. Less incentive for human garbage to get jobs is all.

not really.

if they didn't have jobs they were likely on medicaid/schip and you've already been supporting them for as long as you've been paying taxes.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm sorry, but how is this ANY better than what I have now? You've got to be insane to support this.

Power hungry, not insane.

 

[QuantumPion]

Obviously the next step is free college for all.

Did they not add the student loan nationalization in the health bill? Or did it get cut at the last minute.

 

[flavio]

Yea. I get to pick up the tab for some low life and his shitty family to get health care. Less incentive for human garbage to get jobs is all.

Here tell me how much this affects you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...t-health-bill-means-for-you/?nav=most_emailed

My taxes aren't affected. But I wouldn't mind paying a little extra to make sure people with crippling illnesses can get treatment so they can be productive again. Only human garbage would be against that.

 

[Patranus]

Did they not add the student loan nationalization in the health bill? Or did it get cut at the last minute.

I believe it is inn the "reconciliation" bill.

 

[Fern]

maybe I don't understand the bill correctly, but let's say I'm an uninsured healthy person who makes too much to qualify for medicaid but not enough to pay for insurance out of pocket without it being a financial burden. like many people, I work for a small business.

what's the difference between today, when I chose not to buy insurance due to the costs, versus 2014 when I'm going to be forced to buy it regardless or pay a fine?

In 2014 the poo will hit the fan.

People don't like paying penalties. I predict that provision will be at least heavily watered down by then.

Fern

 

[nonlnear]

I can’t help diagnose a problem you won’t seek treatment for.

I meant please post the quotes which prove that I looked something up before you asked. Perhaps I was too subtle in my request...

I’m defining it in a perfectly acceptable way and making sure you know how ridiculous it sounds to use in the context you used it in which, apparently, flew over your head the first time around. I guess you’re back for seconds.

Wait, you defined something? Where?

All you had to do was ask for clarification before instead of pretending to be smart. Here, I’ll cut and paste what I said before since you’re a bit slow on the uptake: asdf

Your response to that: Your ass is still leaking definitions.... Or in other words, “I’m intellectually dimwitted”.

regurgitation != clarification. And how exactly is the common meaning of the term "outdated"? What is so laughable about calling every single person who can't pay their obligations deadbeats? Or is this morality by consensus?

Comedy isn’t your strength, hula hooping may be more your speed.

Who said anything about being funny? Internetz is srsbzns!

 

[dwell]

Here tell me how much this affects you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...t-health-bill-means-for-you/?nav=most_emailed

My taxes aren't affected. But I wouldn't mind paying a little extra to make sure people with crippling illnesses can get treatment so they can be productive again. Only human garbage would be against that.

You think that $940 billion is coming out of thin air? Your taxes aren't affected by this directly, but that money has to come from somewhere.

 

[woolfe9999]

In 2014 the poo will hit the fan.

People don't like paying penalties. I predict that provision will be at least heavily watered down by then.

Fern

Perhaps. The mandate penalty doesn't actually kick in until 2015. The recon bill actually lowers the penalty as it will apply in 2015 from from $495 (Senate version) to $325. Starting in 2016, the Senate version is $790 or 2% of your income, which is greater, while the recon version is $695 or 2.5% of your income, whichever is greater. The recon version is more "progressive" in the sense that it raises the penalty for higher income people and lowers it more for lower income people. Still, you're right that people don't like penalties.

Since the mandate is so unpopular, I wonder if the dems shouldn't have just jettisoned it while keeping everything else in tact. Half the newly insured in the bill are coming in under the Medicaid expansion. Large subsidies will apply to about 75% of the remaining uninsured, making it cheap enough that presumably many would buy in without a mandate. And the several million sick will obviously buy in. They could probably get 25-27 million insured with no mandate. A few million less getting subsidies would also improve the fiscal performance of the bill over time.

Perhaps if the SCOTUS strikes down the mandate, it may actually help the long term popularity of the bill.

- wolf

 

[flavio]

You think that $940 billion is coming out of thin air? Your taxes aren't affected by this directly, but that money has to come from somewhere.

So where do you think it comes from? Did you read the CBO report where it reduces the deficit or are you just being an alarmist in vague ways.

 

[nick1985]

So where do you think it comes from? Did you read the CBO report where it reduces the deficit or are you just being an alarmist in vague ways.

Do you really believe that you can add 30+ million people to healthcare on taxpayer dollars and reduce the deficit?

One of 3 things has to happen:

1) It wont, and deficit will skyrocket
2) Massive tax increases to pay for it them

or 3) Combination of 1 and 2

 

[Robor]

Going with the "Americans are dumb, they dont know whats good for them." liberal point of view?

Gotcha.

If the shoe fits...

 

[nonlnear]

So where do you think it comes from? Did you read the CBO report where it reduces the deficit or are you just being an alarmist in vague ways.

The CBO report required reductions in reimbursement rates which are not going to happen. They have been "mandatory" for decades and Congress keeps punting them. They keep using them in their projections as a way to deflate the CBO estimates. It's kind of a running joke in D.C. That's just on of many issues with taking the CBO numbers at face value...

It's not a partisan problem either. Both sides have mastered the art of manipulating CBO numbers by manipulating the timetables and assumptions of the bills they submit for scoring.

 

[Fern]

So where do you think it comes from? Did you read the CBO report where it reduces the deficit or are you just being an alarmist in vague ways.

Where do you think the $940B comes from?

Obviously it's taxes. And they're raising more than they say they plan to spend. Personally I don't believe that, because of things like bogus medicare fee cuts etc included in the CBO estimate that will never happen, but that's another matter.

Fern

 

[theamericans075]

Quick question, when did "moderate regulation" become "nationalization"?

 

[First]

Enough. Stop derailing this thread. Pls take it to PMs etc.

TIA

Fern
Super moderator

I meant please post the quotes which prove that I looked something up before you asked. Perhaps I was too subtle in my request...

The fact that you looked it up on Google before I asked for a link but aren’t man enough to admit it here, rofl.

Wait, you defined something? Where?

I cannot help that you literally aren’t following the conversation very well.

regurgitation != clarification. And how exactly is the common meaning of the term "outdated"? What is so laughable about calling every single person who can't pay their obligations deadbeats? Or is this morality by consensus?

Common sense mostly since no one would call a millionaire engineer, for example, a deadbeat because he happened to be bad at managing his money. It’s the sort of stupid oversimplification a simple mind would make.

Who said anything about being funny? Internetz is srsbzns!

Quit while you’re behind.

 

[nonlnear]

The fact that you looked it up on Google before I asked for a link but aren’t man enough to admit it here, rofl.

Why would I "admit" to something that isn't true? Can you find the definition I whipped up from my apparently unbelievable knowledge of the vernacular anywhere in the first few pages from Google?

You find it unbelievable that a person could give a straightforward definition for a word as esoteric as deadbeat? Wow. Is this the same person who waxes condescending about rhetoric? How exactly do you expect anyone to be competent at rhetoric when you assume that the entire world is incapable of knowing a simple definition?

I cannot help that you literally aren’t following the conversation very well.

So you can't produce the quotes you said were in this very thread? Very compelling.

Common sense mostly since no one would call a millionaire engineer, for example, a deadbeat because he happened to be bad at managing his money. It’s the sort of stupid oversimplification a simple mind would make.

No, a LOT of people would call a millionaire engineer a deadbeat for failing to pay his obligations. A deadbeat is a deadbeat.

Or do you just give all high income folks the benefit of the doubt? How very elitist of you.

Quit while you’re behind.

Can you please post the quotes that you claim are in this thread? You are so full of shit I have olfactory fatigue.

 

[nageov3t]

I haven't seen this posted yet, but I think it's pretty awesome...

The Center for Science in the Public Interest said in a statement that the bill's passage is a "huge victory for consumers" for its inclusion of a national menu labeling provision. The provision will require calorie labeling on chain restaurant menus, menu boards, and drive-thru displays, as well as on vending machines.

http://gawker.com/5499551/health-ca...utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gawker/full+(Gawker)