List of positive accomplishments in Iraq by military and leaders

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Pandaren

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The attitude of the people on this board in regards to Iraq makes me think that if you were alive in WW 2 you would look at D-Day and say "OMG look at home many people were killed" and ignore anything else. That is certainly what we see from some of you here. A list of real accomplishments and yet some of you just want to ignore every one of them.

That is wrong.

WWII was a cut-and-dried fight against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. The freedom of Western civilization was at stake, and the terrible cost was worth it.

The same thing is at stake right now, and the terrible price we are paying is still worth it. The evil we are facing today makes Hitler and Imperialist Japan look like a couple of Girl Scouts.

This war may not be as "cut-and-dried," but trust me, we are certainly playing for the same high stakes; if not higher!

The same thing is at stake now? Are you kidding, stupid or naive? NOTHING was happening before dumbya demanded the inspectors leave and started this whole mess. Saddam wasn't trying to invade Iran, then Pakistan, then eastern europe. Jesus, I can't even fathom someone would even think that let alone be ignorant enough to state it. The stakes were never worth it, not 1 american life, not 1 innocent Iraqi child, not even you capt underoos.
Imperialist Japan wasn't as bad as this? Wow, that's not even worth giving a reply to. Remember, WE, the US of America started this war without much support from the world because it was based on faulty intel, and just ignorant bravado.
LOL.. Playing for the same stakes, right. Ok... Whatever you're smoking, it's gotta be good.

 

[dahunan]

Palehorse74 why did you never answer one single question I asked you in this thread?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Pandaren

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The attitude of the people on this board in regards to Iraq makes me think that if you were alive in WW 2 you would look at D-Day and say "OMG look at home many people were killed" and ignore anything else. That is certainly what we see from some of you here. A list of real accomplishments and yet some of you just want to ignore every one of them.

That is wrong.

WWII was a cut-and-dried fight against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. The freedom of Western civilization was at stake, and the terrible cost was worth it.

The same thing is at stake right now, and the terrible price we are paying is still worth it. The evil we are facing today makes Hitler and Imperialist Japan look like a couple of Girl Scouts.

This war may not be as "cut-and-dried," but trust me, we are certainly playing for the same high stakes; if not higher!

The same thing is at stake now? Are you kidding, stupid or naive? NOTHING was happening before dumbya demanded the inspectors leave and started this whole mess. Saddam wasn't trying to invade Iran, then Pakistan, then eastern europe. Jesus, I can't even fathom someone would even think that let alone be ignorant enough to state it. The stakes were never worth it, not 1 american life, not 1 innocent Iraqi child, not even you capt underoos.
Imperialist Japan wasn't as bad as this? Wow, that's not even worth giving a reply to. Remember, WE, the US of America started this war without much support from the world because it was based on faulty intel, and just ignorant bravado.
LOL.. Playing for the same stakes, right. Ok... Whatever you're smoking, it's gotta be good.

You clearly have no concept of who our enemies are, how they operate, and what they intend to do in this world. The reality is that the war in Iraq is the central piece of a Global war. It may have been a tactical blunder to enter Iraq in 2003, but now that we're there, it is crucial that we stay because Iraq has become that center piece in the Global battle against fanaticism and lunacy which threatens our very existance.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: jman19
Comparing Iraq to WWII is about as absurd as comparing dictator X (pick your favorite) to Hitler. Creating analogies that don't fit but seek to simply things to fit an agenda seem to be a favorite amongst those who don't care to get to the heart of an issue... not saying that you are one of these people, necessarily.

I learned that technique from watching the left compare Iraq to Vietnam since the day we crossed the boarder.

And I was not comparing the two wars, I was pointing out how all the left does is focus on the body count and NOTHING else.

You do not win wars via a body count.

If we do end up leaving and losing it will be Vietnam 2 in a sense that our soldiers have not lost ONE engagement with the enemy since the war started. Even al-Qaeda admits that 4,000 foreign fighters have been killed by us in Iraq. The Pentagon claims that more than 50,000 Iraqi insurgents have been killed or arrested, and that was just during a seven month period in 2005.

The ONLY way we loss in Iraq is if we leave.

Well, actually you did compare the two in stating that "if you were alive in WWII", which implies that the wars are similar enough to conclude that it is the fault of the people that we are less accepting of death in this war.

To insinuate that all the left cares about is body count is flat out wrong; it is, however, an easy "bullet point" type fact to pull out beacuse it doesn't require much explaination behind it.

Anyway, I think I disagree that the only way to lose in Iraq is if we leave. That statement kind of implies a narrow "military victory" type mentality in my opinion. Sure, due to having superior military forces we could probably win every encounter we have there. But considering we are fighting a culture and not a state, does this type of victory mean we have actually achieved what the end goal should be? In my opinion, probably not.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, I remember when you first came here you had said that you have studied Islamic Fundamentalism quite a bit.. Could YOU have predicted the violence we see in Iraq today? <<< please be honest.

Yes, I probably could have.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, I remember when you first came here you had said that you have studied Islamic Fundamentalism quite a bit.. Could YOU have predicted the violence we see in Iraq today? <<< please be honest.

Yes, I probably could have.

Thank you.. I knew you were smarter or at least more honest than Rumsfeld

 

[outriding]

After reading the website I have changed my mind about Iraq. It is a wonderful place, and on the main page you can find out more information on how to start a business in Iraq. I think it is a great idea to start a business in Iraq since it is such a wonderful place. I suggest for everybody to empty out their bank accounts, cash in your 401k, sell your house and call these people so you can start your own wonderful business in a wonderful place. Only fools and liberals will not take advantage of such a great oppertunity. I would have to say in two or three years you can retire a rich man and buy your own island in the tropics. Act now!

 

[palehorse]

The only thing that WWII and the GWOT have in common is that our each of them are battles against great evil. In fact, I believe that the evil we face today is much worse...and it's growing.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: jman19
Comparing Iraq to WWII is about as absurd as comparing dictator X (pick your favorite) to Hitler. Creating analogies that don't fit but seek to simply things to fit an agenda seem to be a favorite amongst those who don't care to get to the heart of an issue... not saying that you are one of these people, necessarily.

I learned that technique from watching the left compare Iraq to Vietnam since the day we crossed the boarder.

And I was not comparing the two wars, I was pointing out how all the left does is focus on the body count and NOTHING else.

You do not win wars via a body count.

If we do end up leaving and losing it will be Vietnam 2 in a sense that our soldiers have not lost ONE engagement with the enemy since the war started. Even al-Qaeda admits that 4,000 foreign fighters have been killed by us in Iraq. The Pentagon claims that more than 50,000 Iraqi insurgents have been killed or arrested, and that was just during a seven month period in 2005.

The ONLY way we loss in Iraq is if we leave.

So the alternative is stay the course? Staying does not equal winning, so maybe 5 years from now, we might get a draw? What is your definition of winning? Does a somewhat stable Iraq prevent Al-Qaeda from attacking us?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

You don't need to explain it in laymans terms. What you need to acknowledge is that WE started this war and we need to do everything we can diplomatically to end it. Make peace with other nations to help bring about peace in Iraq, will it happen, probably not, but sending more bodies back here in flag draped coffins doesn't solve it either. You cannot compare this war with any other war, even Viet Nam.
This has been a cluster fvck from the start, we had chances to leave, ffs, we even had a chance to NEVER enter it. But now it's too late, we broke it, we bought it, I just wish the people responsible for breaking it would actually be held accountable for breaking it. Lies, misdirection, blunders, all SOP for the dumbya crowd from king dumbya to condi 'don't bug me I'm shopping for shoes, I'll get to Katrina later' rice.
They, plus many more need to face up for their horrible actions. And yes, treason too. king dumbya has had more signing statements than all other presidents combined before him, he thinks he's above the law, he has NO plan for Iraq other than to keep the bodies moving in and out, dead or alive. I feel sorry for you, you have fallen for their propaganda hard, and you stand a serious chance of losing your life because of it. We've already forsaken some of our freedoms, I suppose that's the next step, but then again, I'm just a layman.

 

[senseamp]

Saddam wasn't the problem, he was the solution. Now we know what the problem was.
You know, chemotherapy makes you sick, but it kills the cancer. Saddam was making us sick, but he was killing the cancer of religious extremism, and much more effectively than we could ever dream to.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
The only thing that WWII and the GWOT have in common is that our each of them are battles against great evil. In fact, I believe that the evil we face today is much worse...and it's growing.

So is your nose, but that doesn't make it true.

:roll:

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
You clearly have no concept of who our enemies are, how they operate, and what they intend to do in this world. The reality is that the war in Iraq is the central piece of a Global war. It may have been a tactical blunder to enter Iraq in 2003, but now that we're there, it is crucial that we stay because Iraq has become that center piece in the Global battle against fanaticism and lunacy which threatens our very existance.

That is not the reality. That is the talking point. Iraq is more about citizens defending themselves against an invader than it is about terrorism. Even the Pentagon has admitted most of the resistance comes from Iraqis. Your talking point about threatening our very existence is fear mongering. The fanaticisim and lunacy of the neocons is far more dangerous to us. Islamic terrorism is dangerous but it will never kill as many people as disease and accidents. We don't hide under our beds to avoid the flu.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
This has been a cluster fvck from the start, we had chances to leave, ffs, we even had a chance to NEVER enter it. But now it's too late, we broke it, we bought it, I just wish the people responsible for breaking it would actually be held accountable for breaking it. Lies, misdirection, blunders, all SOP for the dumbya crowd from king dumbya to condi 'don't bug me I'm shopping for shoes, I'll get to Katrina later' rice.

Here are the million dollar questions: Are you more interested in holding people accountable or in finding a real workable solution to the situations in Iraq and elsewhere related to the GWOT? What's more important to you: seeing Bush in jail, or establishing peace and democracy in the ME?

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
This has been a cluster fvck from the start, we had chances to leave, ffs, we even had a chance to NEVER enter it. But now it's too late, we broke it, we bought it, I just wish the people responsible for breaking it would actually be held accountable for breaking it. Lies, misdirection, blunders, all SOP for the dumbya crowd from king dumbya to condi 'don't bug me I'm shopping for shoes, I'll get to Katrina later' rice.

Here are the million dollar questions: Are you more interested in holding people accountable or in finding a real workable solution to the situations in Iraq and elsewhere related to the GWOT? What's more important to you: seeing Bush in jail, or establishing peace and democracy in the ME?

They are not related nor are they mutually exclusive.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Ldir
We don't hide under our beds to avoid the flu.

you're right, we take a vaccine. Confronting and destroying the fanatics is the global vaccine we are taking that will prevent us from catching and dying from their virus.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Here's a million dollar question for you. If the U.S. were to be invaded, would you fight the invader/occupiers or not?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Here's a million dollar question for you. If the U.S. were to be invaded, would you fight the invader/occupiers or not?

If Saddam were leading our nation wiith any iron fist, then i would welcome any invaders who destroyed his power with open arms. However, I do not have religious fanatics preaching at me to kill/die every day or thousands of years of poverty and violence to cloud my judgements.

so that's basically a strawman question. GG.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Ldir
We don't hide under our beds to avoid the flu.

you're right, we take a vaccine. Confronting and destroying the fanatics is the global vaccine we are taking that will prevent us from catching and dying from their virus.

Your vaccine is killing 600,000 people who didn't even have the flu. That is wrong. Why did you dodge everything else I said?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
* Brutal Baathist dictatorship overthrown - no more regime sponsored rape rooms

Now, the U.S now tortures captives in Iraq and in secret prison cells in other countries.

* Saddam captured and on trial - despite all attempts to stop the trial

Saddam was nobody's nice guy, but he was already in a box and couldn't do squat outside of Iraq.

Former weapons inspector, Hans Blix says the Iraqi daily death toll is higher, now, than it was under Saddam:

Iraqis better off under Saddam, says former weapons inspector
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 | 12:25 PM ET
CBC News

The war in Iraq is a "pure failure" that has left Iraqis in a worse state than when they lived under Saddam Hussein, former United Nations chief weapons inspector Hans Blix said in comments published Wednesday.

"Iraq is a pure failure," Blix was quoted as saying in the Danish newspaper Politiken.

"If the Americans pull out, there is a risk that they will leave a country in civil war. At the same time it doesn't seem that the United States can help to stabilize the situation by staying there."

Blix, in comments that were seen as unusually critical for the diplomat, said the U.S. is facing a situation where neither staying to fight nor pulling its troops out of Iraq are good decisions.

Blix said Iraq would have been better off if the war had not happened.

"Saddam would still have been sitting in office. OK, that is negative and it would not have been joyful for the Iraqi people. But what we have gotten is undoubtedly worse," he was quoted as saying.

Blix was in charge of a team of UN inspectors who looked for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the U.S. and its allies invaded the country in 2003. He had asked for more time to allow the weapons inspectors to do their work, but was criticized by Washington for his request.

After his team left Iraq, a coalition of forces led by the U.S. invaded the country. The U.S. and British military forces found no weapons of mass destruction.

Violence in the country is escalating, meanwhile, with Iraqi civilians, government officials, police officers and often U.S. soldiers killed every day. Bodies are frequently found in Baghdad, bound and tortured. Bombings are common.

Estimates of the death toll from the Iraqi war range wildly.

According to Iraq Body Count, a website that tracks reported deaths of Iraqi civilians from previously published sources, an estimated 44,000 to 50,000 Iraqis have died in the war.

But a study published recently in the British medical journal The Lancet estimated that 655,000 Iraqis have died since the invasion began, most of them as a direct result of violence.

Originally posted by: hellokeith
* Saddam's criminal sons killed

That's nice. Was it worth nearly 3000 dead American troops, tens of thousands more wounded and trillions of dollars of debt your great grandchildren will still be paying?

* New Constitution
* Elections - an estimated 8 million people, 60 percent of eligible voters, braved violence and ignored calls for a boycott to go vote
* New Government

Right. That constitution isn't worth the paper it's printed on, and those elections brought them a government dominated by the sectarian warlords and leaders of the death squads who are the dominant source of the daily carnage.

* Foreign terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed and
* Al Qaeda leadership in Iraq smashed

< Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" voice > Now, isn't that something special? </ Dana Carvey's "Church Lady" voice >

Clue -- They weren't even in Iraq before Bush launched his war of lies.

* Thousands of new Iraqi police trained - new recruits still lining up despite attacks
* Tens of thousands of new Iraqi troops trained

And now that they've been armed trained, some of them are the same guys who are acting as sectarian death squads, using the arms and wearing the uniforms we paid for and supplied to them. Others just take the money and desert the police and military, taking the arms and military supplies with them.

It is undeniable that the US+Iraq relationship is strong and making significant progress.

Other accomplishments: education, health, water & sanitation, electricity, transportation, and telecommunications

WTF have you been smoking? :roll:

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: techs
Brutal Baathist dictatorship overthrown - no more regime sponsored rape rooms
Instead we have death squads murdering hundreds every day.

Saddam captured and on trial - despite all attempts to stop the trial
Ok, this is true But lets not forget the US supported Saddam for many years

New Constitution
Which is failing so badly most of the country wants to tear it up and start fresh

Elections - an estimated 8 million people, 60 percent of eligible voters, braved violence and ignored calls for a boycott to go vote
And yet the Iraqi people are not supporting the government they elected.

Foreign terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed and
Al Qaeda leadership in Iraq smashed
Yes, we killed ONE. yet Al-Qaeda wasn't even present in Iraq under Saddam

Thousands of new Iraqi police trained - new recruits still lining up despite attacks
And the ones we trained are now...in the death squads. And hundreds have been dismissed. In fact there are NO reliable Iraqi police or troops. And the economy is so bad that new recruits are joining desperate to feed their families, not support the government.

Tens of thousands of new Iraqi troops trained
Meaning tens of thousands of worthless troops. In fact, tens of thousands of new enemies to peace.

Spot on rebuttal. Just a bunch of empty talking points from the OP...

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Here's a million dollar question for you. If the U.S. were to be invaded, would you fight the invader/occupiers or not?

If Saddam were leading our nation wiith any iron fist, then i would welcome any invaders who destroyed his power with open arms. However, I do not have religious fanatics preaching at me to kill/die every day or thousands of years of poverty and violence to cloud my judgements.

so that's basically a strawman question. GG.

No, it's a very simple question. Stop trying to apply some sort of Kerryesque bullshit to it and simply answer it.
My answer to the question is, yes, I would defend the U.S. against attack and would kill as many of her occupiers as possible. That's the difference between you and me. No strawman about it.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
This has been a cluster fvck from the start, we had chances to leave, ffs, we even had a chance to NEVER enter it. But now it's too late, we broke it, we bought it, I just wish the people responsible for breaking it would actually be held accountable for breaking it. Lies, misdirection, blunders, all SOP for the dumbya crowd from king dumbya to condi 'don't bug me I'm shopping for shoes, I'll get to Katrina later' rice.

Here are the million dollar questions: Are you more interested in holding people accountable or in finding a real workable solution to the situations in Iraq and elsewhere related to the GWOT? What's more important to you: seeing Bush in jail, or establishing peace and democracy in the ME?

When did the ME ask for democracy? And what kind of democracy? Jeffersonian or dumbya-onian? And they are mutually exclusive, in other words, I can have my peace and see dumbya et al in prison. In fact, I believe that if we were truly to hold these people accountable, under a fair trial and they were convicted, that would bring immense global support from all facets of leadership.
Iraq and the gwot on terror had as much to do with each other as mustard and oak leaves prior to the lies and propaganda that started this. So, I guess that gets back to holding the people accountable, as I believe, and said before, it could have such a positive global impact that it would assist the gwot.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Here's a million dollar question for you. If the U.S. were to be invaded, would you fight the invader/occupiers or not?

If Saddam were leading our nation wiith any iron fist, then i would welcome any invaders who destroyed his power with open arms. However, I do not have religious fanatics preaching at me to kill/die every day or thousands of years of poverty and violence to cloud my judgements.

so that's basically a strawman question. GG.

No, it's a very simple question. Stop trying to apply some sort of Kerryesque bullshit to it and simply answer it.
My answer to the question is, yes, I would defend the U.S. against attack and would kill as many of her occupiers as possible. That's the difference between you and me. No strawman about it.

of course I would defend the U.S as it is structured right now.. The strawman element is introduced when you equate our great nation, a symbol of freedom and liberty, to Iraq under Saddam. You are trying to defend their insurrection by claiming that if the situation were reversed, you'd fight. The problem is that it is impossible to reverse the circumstances unless Saddam were running the U.S. It's apples and oranges, and you damn well know it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
This has been a cluster fvck from the start, we had chances to leave, ffs, we even had a chance to NEVER enter it. But now it's too late, we broke it, we bought it, I just wish the people responsible for breaking it would actually be held accountable for breaking it. Lies, misdirection, blunders, all SOP for the dumbya crowd from king dumbya to condi 'don't bug me I'm shopping for shoes, I'll get to Katrina later' rice.

Here are the million dollar questions: Are you more interested in holding people accountable or in finding a real workable solution to the situations in Iraq and elsewhere related to the GWOT? What's more important to you: seeing Bush in jail, or establishing peace and democracy in the ME?

When did the ME ask for democracy? And what kind of democracy? Jeffersonian or dumbya-onian? And they are mutually exclusive, in other words, I can have my peace and see dumbya et al in prison. In fact, I believe that if we were truly to hold these people accountable, under a fair trial and they were convicted, that would bring immense global support from all facets of leadership.
Iraq and the gwot on terror had as much to do with each other as mustard and oak leaves prior to the lies and propaganda that started this. So, I guess that gets back to holding the people accountable, as I believe, and said before, it could have such a positive global impact that it would assist the gwot.

you really need to step out of 2002 and face the situtation as it exists now, in 2006. try to come up with a viable solution for the here-and-now, not 2002.