List of positive accomplishments in Iraq by military and leaders

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or I can just wait until 2008 and replace the Admin with the better candidate that runs.
.
.
Sound like a deal?

NO DEAL! Whether we consider them arch traitors or criminally inept, we can't afford to allow the Bushwhackos to remain anywhere near any positions of power. Any part of the government they haven't already corrupted is still inept at doing their assigned job.

Right now, the biggest threat to the U.S. Constitution and our American democratic republic is at the very head of our government, and what this country needs is the functional equivalent of the French cure for the migrain... the guillotine.

I do NOT mean physically beheading them, but Bush, Cheney and their entire cadre of fools all need to be severed from any positiion of authority or influence over this nation, and we can't afford to wait two years for that to happen.

Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?

Words and Music by Harvey Rubens
Copyright 2006

Verse 1:

I see men looking over their shoulder,
Running hard just trying to stay alive,
And they say that it's gonna get colder before it gets better.

At the time of the crime, who believed us?
We all took a fall on the ride,
When the powers that be had deceived us to leave us the debtor.

Chorus:

And who's watching over who's watching over you?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

Verse 2:

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than Colin, the Knight,
And the lies they were telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

They silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light.
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

Chorus:

Verse 3:

I see men who are trying to squeeze us,
And taking whatever they can,
While they buy those who try to appease us with scraps from their table.

It gets harder each day to break even.
This wasn't a part of my plan.
Time is right to be fighting or leaving this tower of Babel.

Chorus:

well then I have a feeling that you are going to be severely let down for the next two years because even Pelosi said that no head-hunting expeditions will occur, even under a completely Democrat-controlled Congress. Hopefully if they DO take control they are intelligent enough to focus their energies on solving the War issue rather than pursuing criminal charges or impeachment against Bush.

We cannot afford to have a distracted Congress during a time of War.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
First solution is to get rid of those responsible for getting us into this mess.

that will happen in 2008... so you had better get crackin' on your super-duper solutions!

If this nation is really lucky, we'll get a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress that will have the balls to investigate this administration and, despite Nancy Pelosi's statement to the contrary, if they find conclusive proof that their actions were sufficiently criminal, they will proceed with the impeachment of Bush and Cheney and their removal from office long before November, 2008.

I personally believe a strong case can be made to try and convict Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, Feif and the rest of the neocon Bushwhakcos for treason among other high crimes. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

so if you got your wish and both house and senate changed hands, you'd want their energy focused on investigations and prosecutions in lieu of solving the problems in Iraq and elsewhere?!?! Well that just about sums up why we never agree on anything, and why I hope the votes go against you. You're (the left) too busy placing blame on everyone to concentrate on what really matters. no f'n thankyou.

Hey, I actually agree with you. Of course, I also think that the impeachment of Clinton was a total waste of time. Funny how you hear that Clinton did nothing during his presidency, while the Republicans were busy playing partisan games. Nice.

yes, and it would also be nice to think we learned a few lessons after all of the wasted money and efforts spent pursuing Clinton's fiasco.

We need a Congress and an Admin that put all of there efforts toward solving the problems in Iraq. Going in any other direction with their efforts would be a crime in and of itself.

 

[Pens1566]

Because things like flag burning, ammendments banning gay marriage, and internet gambling aren't distractions, right???

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Because things like flag burning, ammendments banning gay marriage, and internet gambling aren't distractions, right???

some of them necessary, and some of them not.. unfortunately. But all of them seemingly more worthy of attention than pursuing criminal actions against the current Admin.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
First solution is to get rid of those responsible for getting us into this mess.

that will happen in 2008... so you had better get crackin' on your super-duper solutions!

If this nation is really lucky, we'll get a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress that will have the balls to investigate this administration and, despite Nancy Pelosi's statement to the contrary, if they find conclusive proof that their actions were sufficiently criminal, they will proceed with the impeachment of Bush and Cheney and their removal from office long before November, 2008.

I personally believe a strong case can be made to try and convict Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, Feif and the rest of the neocon Bushwhakcos for treason among other high crimes. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

so if you got your wish and both house and senate changed hands, you'd want their energy focused on investigations and prosecutions in lieu of solving the problems in Iraq and elsewhere?!?! Well that just about sums up why we never agree on anything, and why I hope the votes go against you. You're (the left) too busy placing blame on everyone to concentrate on what really matters. no f'n thankyou.

Hey, I actually agree with you. Of course, I also think that the impeachment of Clinton was a total waste of time. Funny how you hear that Clinton did nothing during his presidency, while the Republicans were busy playing partisan games. Nice.

yes, and it would also be nice to think we learned a few lessons after all of the wasted money and efforts spent pursuing Clinton's fiasco.

We need a Congress and and Admin that put all of there efforts toward solving the problems in Iraq. Going in any other direction with their efforts would be a crime in and of itself.

Like I said, I agree. One of the smartest things Pelosi said is that she won't turn this in to a witchhunt if the dems come in to power... hopefully she will remain true to that if it happens.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

yes, and it would also be nice to think we learned a few lessons after all of the wasted money and efforts spent pursuing Clinton's fiasco.[/quote]
Hypothetical questions:

1. If it could be proven conclusively that Bush and his administration lied about his reasons for taking the country to war, and that war directly resulted in the deaths of thousands of Americans, would you agree that he would be guilty of some crime, such as murder or manslaughter, for those deaths?
   
2. If it could be proven conclusively that Bush and his administration betrayed their oaths of office to uphold the U.S. Constitiution, and they intentionally, directly and egregiously violated the rights of American citizens enumerated in the Constitution, and that American citizens suffered directly from such violations, would you agree that he would be guilty of some crime for those violations?
   
3. If it could be proven conclusively that Bush and his administration betrayed the trust of the American people by allowing their industrial contributors to reap enormous profits for work they were supposed to perform in Iraq supporting our troops, and those companies regularly and repeatedly under-performed, mis-performed and systematically defrauded the American people, would you agree that he would be guilty of some crime for his failure to provide the legally mandated executive oversight required of a President?
   
4. If Bush were found guilty of such crimes, should he be held accountable and punished for them?
   
5. If Bush were found guilty of such crimes, should he be allowed to remain in office where he could continue the same criminality and ineptitude?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, how can a "law and order" conservative NOT demand that the administration be held to account for their crimes?

We need a Congress and an Admin that put all of there efforts toward solving the problems in Iraq. Going in any other direction with their efforts would be a crime in and of itself.

We need a Congress that will assume responsibility to exercise ITS legally mandated oversight of the executive branch of government and an administration that has been gutted of the criminals and incompetents who are directly responsible for the multiple catastrophies and havoc the Bushwhackos have wreaked on the U.S. Constitution and our citizens. Ignoring their crimes and allowing them to remain anywhere near any position of power or responsibility would be a crime in and of itself.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: palehorse74

yes, and it would also be nice to think we learned a few lessons after all of the wasted money and efforts spent pursuing Clinton's fiasco.

Hypothetical questions:

1. If it could be proven conclusively that Bush and his administration lied about his reasons for taking the country to war, and that war directly resulted in the deaths of thousands of Americans, would you agree that he would be guilty of some crime, such as murder or manslaughter, for those deaths?
   
2. If it could be proven conclusively that Bush and his administration betrayed their oaths of office to uphold the U.S. Constitiution, and they intentionally, directly and egregiously violated the rights of American citizens enumerated in the Constitution, and that American citizens suffered directly from such violations, would you agree that he would be guilty of some crime for those violations?
   
3. If it could be proven conclusively that Bush and his administration betrayed the trust of the American people by allowing their industrial contributors to reap enormous profits for work they were supposed to perform in Iraq supporting our troops, and those companies regularly and repeatedly under-performed, mis-performed and systematically defrauded the American people, would you agree that he would be guilty of some crime for his failure to provide the legally mandated executive oversight required of a President?
   
4. If Bush were found guilty of such crimes, should he be held accountable and punished for them?
   
5. If Bush were found guilty of such crimes, should he be allowed to remain in office where he could continue the same criminality and ineptitude?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, how can a "law and order" conservative NOT demand that the administration be held to account for their crimes?

We need a Congress and an Admin that put all of there efforts toward solving the problems in Iraq. Going in any other direction with their efforts would be a crime in and of itself.

We need a Congress that will assume responsibility to exercise ITS legally mandated oversight of the executive branch of government and an administration that has been gutted of the criminals and incompetents who are directly responsible for the multiple catastrophies and havoc the Bushwhackos have wreaked on the U.S. Constitution and our citizens. Ignoring their crimes and allowing them to remain anywhere near any position of power or responsibility would be a crime in and of itself.

there would be no benefit to a witch-hunt, no matter how much "good PR" you think it would give us in the eyes of the world. Our enemies would just laugh, point, and continue their attacks as we chewed ourselves to pieces internally... kinda like they are doing now as folks like you continue to look within for the problem.

like I said earlier, don't hold your breath.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
* Brutal Baathist dictatorship overthrown - no more regime sponsored rape rooms
* Saddam captured and on trial - despite all attempts to stop the trial
* Saddam's criminal sons killed
* New Constitution
* Elections - an estimated 8 million people, 60 percent of eligible voters, braved violence and ignored calls for a boycott to go vote
* New Government
* Foreign terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed and
* Al Qaeda leadership in Iraq smashed
* Thousands of new Iraqi police trained - new recruits still lining up despite attacks
* Tens of thousands of new Iraqi troops trained

It is undeniable that the US+Iraq relationship is strong and making significant progress.

Other accomplishments: education, health, water & sanitation, electricity, transportation, and telecommunications

Are you going to take the wife and kids to Iraq for summer vaction ? Someone once said that Iraq is a great country and is making progress......if you have a squad of marines in humvess with airsupport nearby otherwise it's a hell hole.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
there would be no benefit to a witch-hunt, no matter how much "good PR" you think it would give us in the eyes of the world.

These aren't witches, and there's really not a lot of hunting to do. They're the tyrants who inspired our nation's founders to fight for our nation's indedendence from the previous King George. The same tyrants from whom they tried to protect us by giving us our beautiful Constitution and Bill of Rights, and they're right here, right now, attacking that Constitution and those rights. :|

Our enemies would just laugh, point, and continue their attacks as we chewed ourselves to pieces internally... kinda like they are doing now as folks like you continue to look within for the problem.

Who gives a flying fsck what makes our enemies laugh? Our friends would respect us far more if we actively repudiate the evil that has been driving this nation for six years than if we just sit in denial with our thumbs up our collective asses, leave the Bushwhackos as the face of our once proud land and hope it all blows over.

like I said earlier, don't hold your breath.

Holding my breath and hoping is exactly what I'm doing.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Harvey

like I said earlier, don't hold your breath.

Holding my breath and hoping is exactly what I'm doing.

well I'd keep a nurse posted nearby... what you're dreaming of is a pipe-dream and is based on so many false assumptions that it's ridiculous.

so, while you're sitting there dreaming of some sort of impeachment payback for the charges against your former God, Clinton, the rest of us will maintain our focus on the ball that is the GWOT. We will be busy looking for ways to adjust our tactics to win the war, while you sit in the corner bitchin and moaning about Bush and their supposed neocon conspiracy. Eventually, Bush will be gone, and you'll be once again living in the past while the rest of us move forward... just like it is right now.

GL with that.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
so, while you're sitting there dreaming of some sort of impeachment payback for the charges against your former God, Clinton...[/i]

I'm not concerned with past charges agains Clinton. I AM concerned with the clear, present, urgent need for triage and first aid for our nation to stop the hemmoraging of the real blood of our troops and the catastrophic loss of all ethics, morals, justice and any sense of legal purpose imposed on us by this adminstration of dictatorial tyrants. :| :| :|

That starts with the impeachment of Bush and Cheney.

GL with that.

Thanks. We'll need it. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: