Liberal Tolerance is a Total Fallacy

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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
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And when you are intolerant of the views of others, why do you still claim you are tolerant? In other words, why do you claim to be the opposite of what you do?

Why do you insist that I'm labeling myself? Do you have to make up the conditions in which someone has a discussion with you to insure that you win? Do you also play Monopoly by giving yourself all the properties and then watching at the other players simply pay you until they are all broke? How badly do you need to feel superior that you resort to such juvenile rhetorical tactics?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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If that was aimed at me (Can't tell you didn't quote)

I'm intolerant of rapists, pedophiles, nazis etc.

I'm a pretty tolerant guy however.

It wasn't (sorry for the confusion). You did answer it well, though.

You are both tolerant and intolerant, based on specific items. As a whole, you are intolerant, in the same way that if someone splashed water on my legs I would be wet - even though only part of me is wet.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
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It wasn't (sorry for the confusion). You did answer it well, though.

You are both tolerant and intolerant, based on specific items. As a whole, you are intolerant, in the same way that if someone splashed water on my legs I would be wet - even though only part of me is wet.

Ah, I see. You are simple.

Things must be of no greater complexity than a binary state for you to be comfortable.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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You call me simple while claiming that tolerance means NOT holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own.

Why do you believe the meaning of tolerance is the exact opposite of the meaning of tolerance?
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
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It wasn't (sorry for the confusion). You did answer it well, though.

You are both tolerant and intolerant, based on specific items. As a whole, you are intolerant, in the same way that if someone splashed water on my legs I would be wet - even though only part of me is wet.

It seems to me that you think people are either intollerant or tollerant, either you can be fine with everything that everyone in the world says or does, or you can be intollerant.

So you've got two people in your head:

Mr Tollerant:
He's fine with rape, incest, murder, genocide, pedophillia, wearing a cape and pretending to be batman, he's OK with everyone "Hey dude, you just do whatever".

Then there's Mr Intollerant:
He may be fine with some things, but other things he's not fine with.

Is that how you think?

Because for me, there's people who are tolerant and people who are intolerant too, but with one proviso on each, one group is tolerant of reasonable things and the other is intolerant of reasonable things.

I.e. It is reasonable to let someone cut their own hair, it is not reasonable to let someone cut peoples eyes out for fun.

To be intolerant of people being allowed to cut their own hair, is to be an intolerant person. To be intolerant of allowing someone to cut other peoples eyes out for fun, is not being an intolerant person as it is reasonable.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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You call me simple while claiming that tolerance means NOT holding fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own.

Thank you for proving my point in as quickly as fashion as I could have asked.

Yes, you are clearly and by your own admission, simple.

Oh, in case it's unclear, you didn't answer saying you were not simple, so by your own rules, you have admitted to being simple.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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It seems to me that you think people are either intollerant or tollerant, either you can be fine with everything that everyone in the world says or does, or you can be intollerant.

So you've got two people in your head:

Mr Tollerant:
He's fine with rape, incest, murder, genocide, pedophillia, wearing a cape and pretending to be batman, he's OK with everyone "Hey dude, you just do whatever".

Then there's Mr Intollerant:
He may be fine with some things, but other things he's not fine with.

Is that how you think?

Because for me, there's people who are tolerant and people who are intolerant too, but with one proviso on each, one group is tolerant of reasonable things and the other is intolerant of reasonable things.

I.e. It is reasonable to let someone cut their own hair, it is not reasonable to let someone cut peoples eyes out for fun.

To be intolerant of people being allowed to cut their own hair, is to be an intolerant person. To be intolerant of allowing someone to cut other peoples eyes out for fun, is not being an intolerant person as it is reasonable.

To be tolerant, you must be holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own.

There are no limts there in the definition of the word tolerant. So to be tolerant, you must meet the definition of tolerance. If you do not meet the definition, you are not tolerant. It just is what it is.

No one is tolerant, and I explained why. If someone splashes your legs with water, you are wet (intolerant). While only part of you is wet (intolerant) and most of you is dry (tolerant), you are not considered dry (tolerant), but instead considered wet (intolerant).
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Thank you for proving my point in as quickly as fashion as I could have asked.

It is not my fault you pretend the opposite of a word's meaning is what the word means - but only when it suits you.

Due to being busted doing it, you are now projecting your failings onto me. It is a natural human thing to do, but you really should work past it.

You also have to work on your vocabulary, I suggest starting with the word tolerance.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
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That's it in a nutshell. False equivalence, false dichotomy.

Grade-school level (il)logic games.

I guess everyone needs a hobby.

Why such obvious trolling is permitted here is beyond me, though.

It is a mystery to most of us. I wonder if they just want to close ATPN and he helps make their case.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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It is a mystery to most of us. I wonder if they just want to close ATPN and he helps make their case.

Oh no, are you one of those people who also thinks that being intolerant means you are not being intolerant?
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
To be tolerant, you must be holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own.

There are no limts there in the definition of the word tolerant. So to be tolerant, you must meet the definition of tolerance. If you do not meet the definition, you are not tolerant. It just is what it is.

No one is tolerant, and I explained why. If someone splashes your legs with water, you are wet (intolerant). While only part of you is wet (intolerant) and most of you is dry (tolerant), you are not considered dry (tolerant), but instead considered wet (intolerant).

Please stop copying and pasting that stuff into posts, the colour changes and URLs are really irritating when people try and reply.

So in your world, everything is binary.

You can't be reasonable, or attractive or intelligent or happy or sad, because once you become an ounce of the opposite you instantly have that characteristic removed from your personality?

Personality traits are not absolute, a person can be wholly tolerant, even if at times it is necessary and reasonable to be intolerant, to call someone tolerant doesn't mean that for all their life every waking moment everything they do has to be accepting of everything that everyone else does says believes and breaths, it means that within rational, reasonable, acceptable limits they are not intolerant.

Since you love definitions, here's googles:

The ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily...: "religious tolerance"

The ability... it doesn't say that for time immemorial you must tolerate all you are aware of it says you have the ability / willingness to tolerate things.

(That's a bad definition as you shouldn't use the word in the definition of the word....)
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
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76
I am tolerant, because I am accepting of other peoples lifestyles with regards to their beliefs, religions, sexuality, nationality etc, within reasonable constraints.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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It is not my fault you pretend the opposite of a word's meaning is what the word means - but only when it suits you.

Due to being busted doing it, you are now projecting your failings onto me. It is a natural human thing to do, but you really should work past it.

You also have to work on your vocabulary, I suggest starting with the word tolerance.

Oh Cybr, will you ever find your way?

EDIT: Removed insult.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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Cybr, you are confused. You think tolerant is only an antonym of intolerant, but here is one of the definitions of tolerant:

tolerant:
1
inclined to tolerate

tolerant:
1. inclined or disposed to tolerate

So, contrary to what you believe, in order for a person to qualify as 'tolerant' that person must only be 'inclined to tolerate.' In other words, a person can be tolerant and intolerant at the same time.

Now I know this comes as a huge blow to your ego, so I recommend you let it sink in for a bit. Then take awhile to think about what you have done here so you do not repeat the same type of mistake in the future.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Oh no, are you one of those people who also thinks that being intolerant means you are not being intolerant?

1. No thread-crapping, thread-derailment, off-topic posting, trolling, the intentional posting of logical fallacies or misinformation.

How do you keep getting away with violating this rule?
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
It seems to me that you think people are either intollerant or tollerant, either you can be fine with everything that everyone in the world says or does, or you can be intollerant.

So you've got two people in your head:

Mr Tollerant:
He's fine with rape, incest, murder, genocide, pedophillia, wearing a cape and pretending to be batman, he's OK with everyone "Hey dude, you just do whatever".

Then there's Mr Intollerant:
He may be fine with some things, but other things he's not fine with.

Is that how you think?

Because for me, there's people who are tolerant and people who are intolerant too, but with one proviso on each, one group is tolerant of reasonable things and the other is intolerant of reasonable things.

I.e. It is reasonable to let someone cut their own hair, it is not reasonable to let someone cut peoples eyes out for fun.

To be intolerant of people being allowed to cut their own hair, is to be an intolerant person. To be intolerant of allowing someone to cut other peoples eyes out for fun, is not being an intolerant person as it is reasonable.

Nice to see you feeding the troll. Strange don't you think that a nuclear engineer cannot get, "I am tolerant of everything but intolerance." Just refer him to the book "Everything I Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" or Southpark.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
Nice to see you feeding the troll. Strange don't you think that a nuclear engineer cannot get, "I am tolerant of everything but intolerance." Just refer him to the book "Everything I Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" or Southpark.

I don't know how he can't get this, and now he's stopped replying to me, because he has no argument.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
You forgot to say Cybr Says. You lose again...but then again, everyone has to play to their strengths...

Oh Cybr, if I lose, does that mean you win? How does that feel?

EDIT: Removed insult.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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I am tolerant, because I am accepting of other peoples lifestyles with regards to their beliefs, religions, sexuality, nationality etc, within reasonable constraints.

The definition does not include your added portion. I know you want to say you are dry while water is running over your legs, but your desire for something to be true does not magically make it so.