Liberal Tolerance is a Total Fallacy

[zsdersw]

Many of the gay people I've known had hetero marriages before deciding they were gay, several with children produced. Hetero is the de facto standard for all people, and it often takes decades for someone to realize or admit they are gay - that they are different. But arguing born or made is a fool's errand; it's no one else's business why one chooses to screw and/or love and/or live with and/or marry whom they choose.

Yes, that's a third option I didn't have time to add in the reply this morning.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

There is no "I can be against something and want it stopped but I am still tolerant" position without pretending the meaning of the word tolerance is something other than what it actually is.

I'm really not sure what you think you're accomplishing with this mental masturbation.

I have never said I am tolerant of everything, and neither has anyone else. The idea that anyone declares "I'm tolerant!" without any qualifiers and that therefore you've caught them in some clever gotcha is a dishonest fabrication.

 

[cybrsage]

I have never said I am tolerant of everything, and neither has anyone else. The idea that anyone declares "I'm tolerant!" without any qualifiers and that therefore you've caught them in some clever gotcha is a dishonest fabrication.

So you admit you are not tolerant, that you are actually intolerant?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

So you admit you are not tolerant, that you are actually intolerant?

Let me guess: next you'll ask me if I'm still beating my wife?

 

[cybrsage]

Let me guess: next you'll ask me if I'm still beating my wife?

By this answer, I must assume you do NOT consider yourself intolerant...that you consider yourself tolerant while not holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from oyour own. This means you also do NOT understand the meaning of the word tolerance (which you claim to understand, but obviously do not).

I posted the meaning of the word you claim to understand, yet you still pretend you are tolerant...why is that?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

At this point I am not sure if you are actually serious or you are just trolling me.

I've already said -- repeatedly -- that there is no such thing as someone being flatly "tolerant" or "intolerant".

It's a silly logical fallacy, akin to asking someone "do you believe in violence?" and then trying to pigeonhole everyone into either being okay with every type of violence or with not approving of it under any circumstances -- when the truth is that most people approve of violence in some circumstances and not in others.

Childish.

 

[cybrsage]

So you admit you are not tolerant, that you are actually intolerant?

You are either tolerant of the views of others or you are intolerant. The definition does not say "holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own unless you personally feel their opinions are intolerant."

 

[HAL9000]

Excellent more business should start acting like this.

I'll never understand the right wing agenda in America, the right wing agenda in the UK is bizarre to me, but in America it's fucking nuts.

 

[dank69]

So you admit you are not tolerant, that you are actually intolerant?

You are either tolerant of the views of others or you are intolerant. The definition does not say "holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own unless you personally feel their opinions are intolerant."

Tolerant of what, specifically? I'm sure he is tolerant of some things and intolerant of others.

 

[nehalem256]

Tolerant of what, specifically? I'm sure he is tolerant of some things and intolerant of others.

That would seem to describe 100% of human beings.

 

[cybrsage]

Tolerant of what, specifically? I'm sure he is tolerant of some things and intolerant of others.

Specifically "those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own"

You quoted it already.

 

[cybrsage]

That would seem to describe 100% of human beings.

Yep, ALL humans are intolerant. Some like to lie and say they are not intolerant, and then pretend words only have meanings when they personally want the meanings to apply.

 

[HAL9000]

So you admit you are not tolerant, that you are actually intolerant?

You are either tolerant of the views of others or you are intolerant. The definition does not say "holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own unless you personally feel their opinions are intolerant."

There's being tolerant to reasonable views, and tolerance to unreasonable views.

I'm fine with people being whatever they want to be, but if I owned a business I wouldn't allow people in wearing full Nazi Uniforms shouting "Heil Hitler"...

See the difference? Doesn't mean I'm an intolerant person.

 

[jackstar7]

That would seem to describe 100% of human beings.

And perhaps we should judge and have standards about what we tolerate and do not?

And look! Some of us do!

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Tolerant of what, specifically? I'm sure he is tolerant of some things and intolerant of others.

Precisely.

I guess some people are able to read simple English, and others are not.

 

[dank69]

Yep, ALL humans are intolerant. Some like to lie and say they are not intolerant, and then pretend words only have meanings when they personally want the meanings to apply.

And some like to pretend that when a liberal says 'it isn't right to be intolerant of homosexuals' what that liberal is actually saying is that 'it isn't right to be intolerant of anything.'

 

[cybrsage]

Precisely.

I guess some people are able to read simple English, and others are not.

So you feel that if you arenot holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own then you are still being tolerant?

Seriously, you think that doing the opposite of the definition of tolerance means you are tolerant? Interesting. Do you also think that up means down and wet means dry?

 

[cybrsage]

And some like to pretend that when a liberal says 'it isn't right to be intolerant of homosexuals' what that liberal is actually saying is that 'it isn't right to be intolerant of anything.'

Actually, the liberal is saying "not holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from my own means I am being tolerant".

 

[cybrsage]

And perhaps we should judge and have standards about what we tolerate and do not?

And look! Some of us do!

And when you are intolerant of the views of others, why do you still claim you are tolerant? In other words, why do you claim to be the opposite of what you do?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

And some like to pretend that when a liberal says 'it isn't right to be intolerant of homosexuals' what that liberal is actually saying is that 'it isn't right to be intolerant of anything.'

That's it in a nutshell. False equivalence, false dichotomy.

Grade-school level (il)logic games.

I guess everyone needs a hobby.

Why such obvious trolling is permitted here is beyond me, though.

 

[cybrsage]

Still claiming that not holding a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from your own means you are tolerant.

Interesting. You never did answer if you think up is down and wet is dry...you know, other things that are exact opposites.

 

[dank69]

And when you are intolerant of the views of others, why do you still claim you are tolerant? In other words, why do you claim to be the opposite of what you do?

Is it possible to be tolerant of one thing and intolerant of another?

 

[jackstar7]

Reductio ad absurdum.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

You never did answer if you think up is down and wet is dry...you know, other things that are exact opposites.

 

[HAL9000]

And when you are intolerant of the views of others, why do you still claim you are tolerant? In other words, why do you claim to be the opposite of what you do?

There's reasonable tolerance and unreasonable tolerance.

I'm tolerant to reasonable beliefs.