Levin: Memos don't show what Cheney says they do

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I thought it was also of note, to observe Bush, who has been described (at least around here) as "classy" for not having engaged in the public debate over this stuff since leaving office, has now come out in two separate speeches defending his administration's behavior.

W has now effectively entered the debate too. Interesting, because I assumed he was having Cheney act as their administration's mouthpiece. Frankly, it seems neither Bush or Cheney can keep their mouths shut and simply fade off into the sunset.

Uh, yeah, stay "classy" you too. :roll:

Ron White: " I had the right to remain silent, I.........just didn't have the ability."

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Wow. A democrat is calling a republican a liar. How unusual!

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean the Republican ISN'T a liar

Well of course its politics as usual. The thing thats disingenuous is the dems are just as guilty as the GOP. They knew, approved, and funded this shit. Support for enhanced interrigation techniques is a not a partisan issue. It really makes the Dems look...well...like a bunch of clowns.

Regardless of their culpability in the past (which is shameful), it most certainly IS a partisan issue now. The Democrats are trying to limit it, the Republicans are trying to stop them. I for one am glad that Democrats are at least trying to do the right thing now, as opposed to the Republicans continuing and gleeful embrace of torture.

I would agree with you eskimo, if only the Dems would take responsibility for their own culpability, and go after their own who clearly were just as guilty. But they arent.

Replace the outrageously false words 'just as' with 'also but much less', and I'll agree.

Seeing how an accesory to murder can be just as guilty, so is the senate.

You're wrong both in the analogy on on the direct topic. If you don't understand that the Bush administration is far, far more guilty than the people in Congress who got some drift of what they were up to but had huge limitation on what they could do about it, then we're too far apart to reach any agreement.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ericlp
Well, we can't release all the information as it would hurt the troops and the nations credibility. Who's side are you on?

Torture isn't Obama's fault it's the GOP for letting it happen. I'd love to see bush behind bars for actions. I mean both bush and cheney.

There was NO reason for Obama to release the torture memos like he did.

The practice had been stopped years prior and there was nothing for him to gain and more importantly it did nothing to help protect us from future attacks. The release of the memos was part of a political show put on by Obama and it backfired when Cheney started firing back, along with others who were around at the time.

There was a huge reason to release them that you don't understand, which has to do with accountability and democracy. The people were informed.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ericlp
Well, we can't release all the information as it would hurt the troops and the nations credibility. Who's side are you on?

Torture isn't Obama's fault it's the GOP for letting it happen. I'd love to see bush behind bars for actions. I mean both bush and cheney.

There was NO reason for Obama to release the torture memos like he did.

The practice had been stopped years prior and there was nothing for him to gain and more importantly it did nothing to help protect us from future attacks. The release of the memos was part of a political show put on by Obama and it backfired when Cheney started firing back, along with others who were around at the time.

There was a huge reason to release them that you don't understand, which has to do with accountability and democracy. The people were informed.

Plus, I'm sure that the present prisoners there know about what was going on, and would have told the world upon their release anyway. Bush was probably willing to let them rot and die there whereas Obama has a conscience.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
She has admitted she was. Learn to google. Or click the link a couple posts up that shows it. And the fact she WAS briefed, and continued to not only fund it and condone it, but encourage her counterparts to also, makes her an accessory.

I know she was briefed, however there is some dispute as to the nature of the briefing as well as the information presented during the briefing. If you re-read my statements, you'll see that was alluded to. Regardless, I'm glad you think Pelosi is an accessory to a crime (evident from your choice of language), so let's include her in the group we lay charges against:

George W Bush
Dick Cheney
Alberto Gonzales
John Yoo
Jay Bybee
Steven Bradbury

And I'm sure we can suck more R's into the probe. How many Republican members of the House and Senate were briefed along with Pelosi? What did Condi Rice know? Did Rumsfeld know about this too?

So, I sure hope you support a full and exhaustive probe of these individuals and their role in the crimes at hand? Or are you going to be selective and continue to only support a probe of Pelosi? Right?

Frankly, I don't give two craps if Pelosi knew and goes down as a result. No big loss IMHO. I just want to see this investigated fully.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

So lets see the documents and prove Cheney a liar!

Senator Levin agrees. He said:

I hope that the documents are declassified, so that people can judge for themselves what is fact, and what is fiction," he added.

And I cant believe nobody in the media is roasting Pelosi over her obvious lies.

1. Assuming for the sake of argument that Pelosi lied, it wouldn't excuse the lies of your thankfully EX-Traitor In Cheif, or the EX-ViceTraitor In Cheif or any of the rest of their criminal gang.

2. I don't believe you can prove she HAS lied. The jury's still out on whether Pelosi "lied" when she said the CIA mislead her. Other Democrats who were "briefed" have stated that they were NOT told waterboarding was being used, and Republicans have stated the CIA has lied.

And your problem Harvey is you believe this. The Dems say they werent told you believe them, the GOP says interragation worked, you dont.

If you weren't on a mission to spread FUD, you'd know I did NOT say that. Taking the second of my two paragraphs first, I said there are others in Congress, including some Republicans, who have also reported that the CIA mislead or lied to them. I also said that Genx87 and others who insist Pelosi is lying can't prove that assertion. I've posted elsewhere that the truth about what she was and was not told has not been established.

I've also posted that I would like to see the documents Cheney claims will prove him right made public. To her credit, so has Pelosi, and so has Levin. If Cheney, Pelosi, Levin and others want that, I can wait to see the evidence before declaring she lied. What's your excuse for rushing to judgment? :Q

Which gets back to my first paragraph stating that your thankfully EX-Traitor In Cheif, EX-ViceTraitor In Cheif the rest of their criminal gang DID lie. They lied to Congress, the American people and the world about their reasons for starting their war in Iraq. As of 5/31/09, their war of LIES had wasted the lives of 4,306 American troops and left tens of thousands more Americans wounded, scarred and disabled for life.

They lied about WMD. They lied about connections between Saddam and Al Qaeda. They lied about Saddam trying to buy uranium in Niger. They lied about outing Valerie Plame. They lied about shredding the rights guaranteed to every American under the U.S. Constitution.

They lied, and they lied, and they lied. And they lied about committing TORTURE and other crimes against humanity. They even tortured the English language by marketing their TORTURE with a long euphamism, "enhanced interrogation techniques" in their attempts to divert attention from the raw, unmitigated evil that it is. The name of the evil is TORTURE! :thumbsdown: :|

I don't even have to post one of three foot long macros documenting the Bushwhackos' lies. All I have to do is refer to them, and everyone knows I've got the facts, including names, dates and links to credible documentation proving their lies so don't even think about denying them.

Are you proud of that record?

I found it strange that you haven't actually stated your own views about TORTURE in this thread so I checked your posts in the thread about Mancow subjecting himself to waterboarding. As in this thread, all you did in that thread was insult others and post irrelevant diversions, but you never bothered to post your own opinion about the subject in that thread, either.

That made me even more curious so I searched for your posts on waterboarding for the last three months, and all I found was more of the same.

The fact is, you're all too willing to post extraneous drivel to divert attention from the subject and, failing that, to call others meaningless names for what they post, but when it comes to taking a stand on the issue, you're a spineless wimp who's too chickenshit to post an opinion of your own, let alone support it with links to facts and data. :roll:

I believe your pic should be listed next to the word partisan in the dictionary.

I found a pic of you. :laugh:

Youre a blind hack.

So says the jackass who's either too stupid to form his own opinion or too chickenshit to post one, let alone defend it.

 

[HomerJS]

Chee-nee is full of shit. If that document existed he would have declassified it and made a copy before leaving office.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

If these memos really toasted Cheney as much as claimed, then the liberal media and current administration would release them in a heartbeat to tear down their opposition.

The fact that they have not been released is quite telling.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Again, double standard.

Says you.

Al Gore, as just one example, waited TWO years before he started commenting publicly on the following administration. Cheney waited, what? Two weeks? Two days?

I guess folks like you can't see the difference there, no big surprise. Ah, and Genx87 too I see. No difference between 2 years and 2 weeks, eh? Yeah, it's all the same.

You two are hilarious.

There isnt a difference. The standard was broken by democrats, so democrats have no moral high ground to whine when republicans do the same.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I thought it was also of note, to observe Bush, who has been described (at least around here) as "classy" for not having engaged in the public debate over this stuff since leaving office, has now come out in two separate speeches defending his administration's behavior.

W has now effectively entered the debate too. Interesting, because I assumed he was having Cheney act as their administration's mouthpiece. Frankly, it seems neither Bush or Cheney can keep their mouths shut and simply fade off into the sunset.

Uh, yeah, stay "classy" you too. :roll:

Where was your outrage at Jimmah Carter and Bill Clinton bashing a sitting president?

Clearly, they waited far longer than Cheney or Bush combined before entering the public debate over the current administration's actions and/or policies, but nice try at a duhversion. Would you like to talk about Pelosi now?

Nice rationalization lol. The door is open, dont whine about who comes through.

Pelosi was part of your own story or didnt you fully read it?

I think you're both right, actually. The double standard certainly exists when it comes to who knew what, when, among the Democrats and Republicans...and you're just trying to use that to divert attention away from reasonable criticism of members of the Bush administration.

It's really two separate issues. Pelosi being an idiot doesn't make Cheney any more or less guilty of also being an idiot. That's not to say that it's alright to just focus on one of them for partisan reasons, but then again, that's basically what you're doing. In fact, it's basically what everyone in this thread is doing.

Where did I divert attention away from Cheney? I simply said release the memo's and prove he is a liar. How hard is that to do? My pelosi comment wasnt a diversion. Pelosi was mentioned in the article.

Right now it is a he said he said scenario where one side controls the flow of information and telling us what they want us to hear. If Cheney is lying prove it. Dont release what helps your argument and keep the rest classified. Really put the dagger into Cheney's troubled heart.

I really dont care what happenes to cheney. He is a lifelong politician who can handle himself and knows how to play the game. Which is why I suspect he is making such a stink.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Obama needs to release the damn memos and prove Cheney is a liar. If he doesn't...then maybe, just maybe Cheney is telling the truth.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Obama needs to release the damn memos and prove Cheney is a liar.

True.

If he doesn't...then maybe, just maybe Cheney is telling the truth.

Cheney has never told the truth about anything. There's no chance he is, now.

[ Insert favorite Harvey "macro" proving Bushwhacko lies here. ]

 

[HomerJS]

I'm sure there are Republicans with the same access as Levin. Notice how none of them has spoken out saying these memos prove Chee-nee right.

There might be a security reason the administration is not releasing it. Chee-nee probably knows this, so it's easy to call for the release knowing it will never see the light of day.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ericlp
Well, we can't release all the information as it would hurt the troops and the nations credibility. Who's side are you on?

Torture isn't Obama's fault it's the GOP for letting it happen. I'd love to see bush behind bars for actions. I mean both bush and cheney.

There was NO reason for Obama to release the torture memos like he did.

The practice had been stopped years prior and there was nothing for him to gain and more importantly it did nothing to help protect us from future attacks. The release of the memos was part of a political show put on by Obama and it backfired when Cheney started firing back, along with others who were around at the time.

If Cheny had the slightest iota of credibility with the American Public it might have but he doesn't.

 

[ProfJohn]

Cheney's approval rating has gone up since this all started...

Not as good as Obama's, but much better than that of congress. Tells you how sad we view congress.

 

[HomerJS]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Cheney's approval rating has gone up since this all started...

Not as good as Obama's, but much better than that of congress. Tells you how sad we view congress.

Let's not use the Bush admin tactic...just say shit over and over until people believe it's true

5/22 Chee-nee approval rating 37% up 8% since leaving office.
Congress currently 39% according to Gallop. Most due to Democratic support.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Cheney's approval rating has gone up since this all started...

That's because all you sour pussed NeoCon Tree Swingers have found your spokesman.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Cheney has never told the truth about anything. There's no chance he is, now.

Do you own any brushed that *don't* paint in broad strokes?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Cheney's approval rating has gone up since this all started...

Not as good as Obama's, but much better than that of congress. Tells you how sad we view congress.

Approval ratings do not equal truth. Cheney is a documented wholesale liar.

However, [lCheney has admitted that he supported and authorized torture]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkILjPu3KTE[/l]. He said:

I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in getting the process cleared. The agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do, and they talked to me, as well as others, and explained what they wanted to do, and I supported them.

Cheyney is a poster child for the way the Bushwhackos tortured even the English language by marketing their TORTURE with the euphamism, "enhanced interrogation techniques." The only thing they "enhanced" was the depth and horror of their own unmitigated evil. The name of this particular evil is TORTURE! :thumbsdown: :|

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and their criminal gang of traitors, murderers, torturers and war criminals remain a more serious threat to the people of the United States of America and the values instilled with in our once honored, once respected Constitution than Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and all the Al Qaeda wannabes. At least, Bin Laden and his terrorist minions admit they want to destroy our nation while Bush, Cheney and those who continue to parrot their lies are actually doing it to us from the within our borders, and they are doing it to us HERE and NOW. :shocked:

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Harvey

Cheney has never told the truth about anything. There's no chance he is, now.

Do you own any brushed that *don't* paint in broad strokes?

[ Insert favorite Harvey "macro" proving Bushwhacko lies here. ]

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Cheney has never told the truth about anything.

This is the very definition of "partisan hack".

Get over yourself. Please. For the sake of all humanity.

 

[cubby1223]

Seriously, Harvey, haven't you figured out yet that yelling, screaming, repeating, bolding, countless " :lips: my (_._) " remarks, doesn't change anyone's opinions? What exactly are you trying to do here? You're a broken record. Just put "I hate Bush & Cheney" in your signature and leave the performances out of your responses.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Seriously, Harvey, haven't you figured out yet that yelling, screaming, repeating, bolding, countless " :lips: my (_._) " remarks, doesn't change anyone's opinions? What exactly are you trying to do here? You're a broken record. Just put "I hate Bush & Cheney" in your signature and leave the performances out of your responses.

Seriously, jackass, do you think I don't know I'm not going to change the minds of the lying Bushwhacko sycophant apologists? If so, you're even more stupid than I thought.

I could turn the question around and ask you what you expect to gain by continuing to pimp their lies and defend their crimes, but it's really simple. As long as they continue to spew the same lies and FUD that led our nation into the darkest days and the deepest ethical and moral morass in our history, I will stand to oppose their lies and to call them out as the evil they are.

If all you see in my posts is "I hate Bush & Cheney," I can only conclude that either you're intent on ignoring the information in my "macros" detailing their crimes and their lies, including names, dates, quotes and links to qualified sources because it would shatter your personal fantasy, or you're too reading challenged to comprehend them, or you're one of the criminals.

Which is it?

If you have a problem with that, it's your problem, and you can :lips: my (_!_)

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Harvey

Cheney has never told the truth about anything. There's no chance he is, now.

Do you own any brushed that *don't* paint in broad strokes?

[ Insert favorite Harvey "macro" proving Bushwhacko lies here. ]

In other words, all you have is the same senseless drivel. Thanks for confirming. :thumbsup:

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Harvey

If you have a problem with that, it's your problem, and you can :lips: my (_!_)

Wow. What a witty comeback. If this is the best argument the left can come up with, you guys are in really sad shape.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Harvey

[ Insert favorite Harvey "macro" proving Bushwhacko lies here. ]

In other words, all you have is the same senseless drivel. Thanks for confirming. :thumbsup:

I defy you to disprove anything I've posted in those "macros." Almost everyone else on P&N knows that they contain true and accurate information about the Bushwhackos crimes and lies, including names, dates, quotes and links to credible sources to confirm them. I can repost a good three foot long version if you're too mouse challenged to find one.

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Harvey

If you have a problem with that, it's your problem, and you can :lips: my (_!_)

Wow. What a witty comeback. If this is the best argument the left can come up with, you guys are in really sad shape.

If that's all you've ever read in any of my posts, you're still a reading challenged ethical turd. :thumbsdown: :|