You should re-read what I've said. I've said nothing of the kind. My point, was that Pelosi, even IF she was briefed on exactly the sort of torture that was done, is NOT as guilty as the administration who cooked up the whole idea of "enhanced interrogation" in the first place.
DealMonkey said "...is just as guilty as the Republican Administration who came up with the idea..." as a paraphrase of what others such as Blackangst were saying.
He was not making the statement, he was disagreeing with it, as I did.
JKing, I think you misread DealMonkey's post there, see the part where he said to let him get this straight that others are saying the quote above.
The '...' ellipsis in this case reversed his statement by removing the preceding text.
It's no real surprise that Adm. Blairs comments are being ignored here in the DU Lite echo chamber.
You want people to take you seriously when you call the Presidnt "ohblah-blah"?
Interesting too that you think that opposing torture is some radical left position, rather than the position that should be held by left, center and right.
And that you think the following comments are 'being ignored' here by people who have some hugely different view:
His other comments somewhat defended what was done 'in the months after 9/11'.
It's not news that liberals are in disagreement with Obama over his opposition to legal accountability for the war crimes of the Bush administration.
That's already been discussed at length, it's not ignored, so an Obama appointee saying the above isn't really news either.
It's no real suprise that Admiral Blair's comments are the views of the vast minority. OTOH, Senator Levin has seen the exact memos Dickwad Cheney claims would prove him innocent, and he stated unequivocally that the docuements "say nothing about numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of abusive techniques."
Getting back to the real issue, the good news is, Admiral Blair is a military officer under the command of a Commander In Chief with far superior intellectual, ethical and moral values.
There is NO excuse for using torture, EVER! The consensus of the vast majority of experts on interrogation is that, aside from the fact that torture is illegal in the U.S. and almost every other nation in the civilized world, despite the fact that only an ethically challenged moral turd would advocate, let alone commit, such heinous acts, torture does NOT produce useful, reliable information.
Please prove it or STFU. Cheney wouldn't know the truth if it shot him in the face with a shotgun round. I suspect you wouldn't, either. :roll:
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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And your problem Harvey is you believe this. The Dems say they werent told you believe them, the GOP says interragation worked, you dont. I believe your pic should be listed next to the word partisan in the dictionary. Youre a blind hack.
And save your kiss my ass copy/paste.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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http://www.washingtontimes.com...efed-on-waterboarding/
http://www.washingtontimes.com...s-waterboard-briefing/
Pelosi admits waterboard briefing
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI.../pelosi.waterboarding/
http://www.newsmax.com/insidec...2009/05/12/213583.html
How many you need?
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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She has admitted she was. Learn to google. Or click the link a couple posts up that shows it. And the fact she WAS briefed, and continued to not only fund it and condone it, but encourage her counterparts to also, makes her an accessory.
I think everyone here knows my stance on most political issues, but this really isn't a political issue at all. blackangst1 is right, the commentators talking about Pelosi are right. I'm as big of a Democrat as you can find, and I think in this case it's pretty clear Pelosi is just completely full of shit. Now it doesn't change what anyone else said or did, but the fact is that if we're going to fire people or put them on trial or make them resign for being involved in waterboarding, that list should include Pelosi and anyone else in Congress who stood idly by while it was happening.
Now that the Republican party basically consists of some guys sitting in a bar in Alabama, I'm sure it feels a lot safer for Pelosi and folks like her to take a "strong" stance against waterboarding. But you know what? The tide of public opinion has changed, we have a new President, and an intelligence community that has said they abandoned the practice. What the fuck do we need fair weather Democrats like Pelosi for now? When we really needed her was when we didn't know what was going on, and she and her fellow Congressional representatives should have done something about it on our behalf. THAT'S what we elect these people for, not to jump on the bandwagon when it's politically safe to do so.
I'm pissed at Bush and the Republicans for all they did to harm what this country is supposed to stand for. But I'm just as mad at my party for their totally pathetic inability to locate their backbone when we really needed them to. Maybe someone should be jumping up and down on the Republicans for supporting waterboarding, but it sure as shit shouldn't be the people like Pelosi who had a chance to do something about it before and totally failed to do so.
Part of the problem with politics in this country is that everyone is so caught up in partisan fighting that they forget there are real issues at stake. And sometimes solving those issues is more important than scoring political points...sometimes it even requires you to admit that your "side" is less than perfect. And an inability to do that makes someone a shmuck, whether they're on the left or the right...
Edit: Most of that isn't meant to be directed at you, blackangst1, by the way...your links just gave me a convenient jumping off point
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
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Well, we can't release all the information as it would hurt the troops and the nations credibility. Who's side are you on?
Torture isn't Obama's fault it's the GOP for letting it happen. I'd love to see bush behind bars for actions. I mean both bush and cheney.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
I think everyone here knows my stance on most political issues, but this really isn't a political issue at all. blackangst1 is right, the commentators talking about Pelosi are right. I'm as big of a Democrat as you can find, and I think in this case it's pretty clear Pelosi is just completely full of shit. Now it doesn't change what anyone else said or did, but the fact is that if we're going to fire people or put them on trial or make them resign for being involved in waterboarding, that list should include Pelosi and anyone else in Congress who stood idly by while it was happening.
Now that the Republican party basically consists of some guys sitting in a bar in Alabama, I'm sure it feels a lot safer for Pelosi and folks like her to take a "strong" stance against waterboarding. But you know what? The tide of public opinion has changed, we have a new President, and an intelligence community that has said they abandoned the practice. What the fuck do we need fair weather Democrats like Pelosi for now? When we really needed her was when we didn't know what was going on, and she and her fellow Congressional representatives should have done something about it on our behalf. THAT'S what we elect these people for, not to jump on the bandwagon when it's politically safe to do so.
I'm pissed at Bush and the Republicans for all they did to harm what this country is supposed to stand for. But I'm just as mad at my party for their totally pathetic inability to locate their backbone when we really needed them to. Maybe someone should be jumping up and down on the Republicans for supporting waterboarding, but it sure as shit shouldn't be the people like Pelosi who had a chance to do something about it before and totally failed to do so.
Part of the problem with politics in this country is that everyone is so caught up in partisan fighting that they forget there are real issues at stake. And sometimes solving those issues is more important than scoring political points...sometimes it even requires you to admit that your "side" is less than perfect. And an inability to do that makes someone a shmuck, whether they're on the left or the right...
Edit: Most of that isn't meant to be directed at you, blackangst1, by the way...your links just gave me a convenient jumping off point
Well said Rainsford, and a very brave post (for this forum). It takes guts to admit your side is wrong. Now for me, I havent commented too much about the WB issue, because frankly there is too much we DONT know. Whether or not we agree that it is torture is a moot point. The more relevant point is who knew what, and when. All of my lambasting the Dems for their faux moral outrage is under the presumption that they knew what was going on, not the fact that its Dems. I have thrown my own outrage at Bush for various reasons, but clearly now the lights need to be focused on the Dems. Its their turn in the spotlight, and its their turn to expose the skeletons in THEIR closets.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
There was NO reason for Obama to release the torture memos like he did.
The practice had been stopped years prior and there was nothing for him to gain and more importantly it did nothing to help protect us from future attacks. The release of the memos was part of a political show put on by Obama and it backfired when Cheney started firing back, along with others who were around at the time.
Huh. From reading here, I thought the United Stated didn't have any credibility to lose.
That said, it's "the GOP's fault"?
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