League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[NikolaeVarius]

Well I'm trying out mundo again, and I'm not sure how I feel about him. His clear times are damn fast, but something about him feels sorta off.

I'm screwing about with the new S3 items but I'm thinking the best build is something like

Ninja tabi- Rush warmogs - stinger to be built later into zephyr- spirit visage and possibly aegis- then the standard resist items and such, Not a fan of Atmas though, most of the stats are wasted.

 

[Ultralight]

Well I'm trying out mundo again, and I'm not sure how I feel about him. His clear times are damn fast, but something about him feels sorta off.

I'm screwing about with the new S3 items but I'm thinking the best build is something like

Ninja tabi- Rush warmogs - stinger to be built later into zephyr- spirit visage and possibly aegis- then the standard resist items and such, Not a fan of Atmas though, most of the stats are wasted.

I'd like to know what Masteries and Runes you are running on him. My S2 runes were AS Reds, Yellow Flat Armor, MR Scaling Blues, and Quints of MS. Are you doing similar?

Also, I am torn between rushing either Spirit Visage or Warmogs first. Man I miss Force of Nature.

 

[HumblePie]

Well, since I typically end up playing support since everyone calls/picks for something else, I've been experimenting with different champs in the support role. Really, one can use any champ for a support champ I have found, but some do better than others.

My latest 2 I've been messing with is Ziggs and Viktor.

I REALLY like Ziggs as a support. He massive poke he can blind fire into and out of the bushes that does quite a bit of damage early on. He has 2 forms of CC as well. His mine field is a great slow as well as putting out quite a bit of damage. His satchel charge can be used as an escape, a gap closer, or a knockback/stun because when champs land from the knockback they are stunned for a moment. It's not a long stun, but it is one. Of course the tricky part of the satchel charge is knowing when is it better to use. But with it, one can protect the ADC reasonably well. Not to mention the massive Q bomb throw ziggs can toss out early for harassment that will literally go unanswered most of the time.

Then the fact that he can have a nice almost global presence with his ult makes him great mid to late game. Especially when you are out on ward placing/clearing runs. One of the downsides to playing a support champ is getting caught when out placing and/or clearing wards. With ziggs satchel charge he has a built in escape to make him safer. And if a team fight starts brewing somewhere not that close, ziggs can still contribute with his ult.

It's great that ziggs has low cooldown, high base damage abilities which make him perfect for the support role in my opinion. Pair him up with a caitlyn to really start with massive harassment in lane from level 1.


Viktor is very similar to ziggs and almost as good. His range is a bit shorter, but he can still blind fire his laser where he wants. He can step out to take a hit or two while shielding himself. Which means Viktor gets a bit of free harass. He has his slow/stun bubble to help protect the ADC or use to go for a kill. His ult puts out massive damage without the need for much AP. He lacks the versatility though of ziggs, which is why I think ziggs is the better support of the two, although viktor's stun is a bit longer in duration.

 

[Ultralight]

HumblePie - I main Ziggs and love him at mid and I have thought often that he would make a great support. Never had the guts to try it though because of the grief I would receive.

What Masteries, Runes, and especially Items are you utilizing for support Ziggs?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I'd like to know what Masteries and Runes you are running on him. My S2 runes were AS Reds, Yellow Flat Armor, MR Scaling Blues, and Quints of MS. Are you doing similar?

Also, I am torn between rushing either Spirit Visage or Warmogs first. Man I miss Force of Nature.

MS quints, Flat armor blue and yellow. AS reds.

I rush Warmogs first. Early tankiness is huge,
Masteries wise, 4/26.

 

[HumblePie]

HumblePie - I main Ziggs and love him at mid and I have thought often that he would make a great support. Never had the guts to try it though because of the grief I would receive.

What Masteries, Runes, and especially Items are you utilizing for support Ziggs?

Runes: AP quints, MPen reds, Armor Yellows, MR/lvl blues.

At least 9 in offense, and enough of support for greed and extra gold. You can put more in offense, which is what I do for more AP, or more in utility. Your choice really. I like starting with 20+ish AP from masteries and runes.


I go with a crystal flask, 2 health pots, 2 blue pots, and 2 wards to start. This gives you a TON of lane sustain to toss out bombs for awhile. Actually, I might switch 1 red pot for a blue pot.

Basically after that you either get a ToG or a Chalice depending upon the other teams makeup. If they are AP heavy, get a chalice. Otherwise get the Tear. I get a sightstone to save on ward costs. Between the flask and sightstone you don't need to spend a whole lot of money for wards/pots the rest of the game. I like having kage's pick for the GP + AP and then I build straight for AP as if I was an AP mid.

Seriously Ziggs is damn good, better than Zyra, as a support champ. Everyone likes Zyra lately for support because of blind fire root, and her base damage. Ziggs has all that with greater poke, better zoning, and his ult can help in a larger area of the map than Zyra can with her ult.

Like yourself, many think I'm trolling when I go Ziggs support. Because no one else does it. And since no one has seen or done it then in most people's mind it's not "meta" and thus a "troll" pick.

 

[Ultralight]

@ NikolaeVarius - Warmogs it is. Thanks for your response.

@ Humble Pie - I will try out your build suggestions. And you are right about eventually going AP on him. I absolutely hate it when people think that the meta build is the ONLY way to build supports. I've always said that to do that is to seriously gimp many supports especially mid to late game.

For example, Karma is a fantastic support as long as you build her with AP. It is amazing how she has become very viable since the S3 items.

 

[HumblePie]

@ NikolaeVarius - Warmogs it is. Thanks for your response.

@ Humble Pie - I will try out your build suggestions. And you are right about eventually going AP on him. I absolutely hate it when people think that the meta build is the ONLY way to build supports. I've always said that to do that is to seriously gimp many supports especially mid to late game.

For example, Karma is a fantastic support as long as you build her with AP. It is amazing how she has become very viable since the S3 items.

Yep the problem with supports is they've always been starved for money since the team relies upon them heavily to buy wards/oracles. They don't get much money except through assists or gold generation per 10 seconds, and still require a few basic items to help a team. Such as boots.

The sightstone is a MASSIVE item improvement for supports. I mean massive! Supports are no longer gold starved with it. Sure the cost is 700 gold for it, but a good support is buying more than 9 wards in a game. Every ward after 9 the sightstone pays for itself. The upgrade to the stone for more health is just gravy as supports certainly can use health as they are frequently targeted due to their squishie nature.

I'm finding that even as support ziggs, I'm contributing a MASSIVE portion of the damage against the other team's champions. My total damage output may be low since I'm not attacking creeps as much, but my damage against champs shows I'm doing quite a bit of work. I REALLY love the new break down of the damage tables at the end of the game to show damage against creeps versus champs.

To me it's a new goal, if you are not the jungle and are in lane, and cant pull 30+K damage in a 30 minute game against enemy champs then you are sucking balls. Straight up sucking. Especially if you got massive damage against creeps. Why? If you are playing right you should ONLY be last hitting creeps and everything else should be harassment against the other person. Doing it the other way is straight out sucking. The only person on the team that should have far more damage to creeps than champs is the jungler.

 

[slpnshot]

To me it's a new goal, if you are not the jungle and are in lane, and cant pull 30+K damage in a 30 minute game against enemy champs then you are sucking balls. Straight up sucking. Especially if you got massive damage against creeps. Why? If you are playing right you should ONLY be last hitting creeps and everything else should be harassment against the other person. Doing it the other way is straight out sucking. The only person on the team that should have far more damage to creeps than champs is the jungler.

Wait you can see damage done to champions now? I always felt that the damage chart was worthless because it showed total damage, but if they isolate it to champions that is awesome!

 

[HumblePie]

Wait you can see damage done to champions now? I always felt that the damage chart was worthless because it showed total damage, but if they isolate it to champions that is awesome!

Yep, just click on the details at the end of the game. The damage is broken down into damage done to champs versus creeps and the type of damage done. I played a game as Teemo last night where I had racked up almost 90K damage done to champs alone. I was the HIGHEST damage output to champs by far. The next highest was the twitch on my team with 38K damage. Of course he did more damage to creeps at 400K damage total for the game where I only did 280K damage total. He also had 1 less kill than me at 14 compared to my 15. But quite a bit of his kills were KS's at the last moment. I literally carried that game and did the work. When I wasn't at a team fight, our guys got pounded. When I was I usually took out 2 people on my own. Even though I would die, the damage I did put out was enough to usually allow my team to win the fight, or at least break off and not lose the team fight with a draw.

Basically if I'm playing the game as a LANER, I attempt to get 15K damage by the 20 minute mark and 30K damage by the 30 minute mark to champions. Regardless if I'm top, mid, or bot lane. If I also have my CS at the same level as the opposite person in my lane or more along with that much damage against them, then I have done my job and done it well. This is usually the case for me. Overly passive play does not win games. You need some aggression to win games and make plays.

Speaking of which, playing ziggs as a support is awesome, but ziggs support is NOT a passive support. Had a game last night I was doing great bot. I was poking early and since the other team's bot laners back to base twice before we had to even think about it. My ADC was up by 30+ CS at least. Jungle then pings he's coming. I see him coming as he is coming from behind our tower and runs right past my MF. She doesn't move to join the gank. I make a move to setup with my satchel charge a gank that WOULD have succeeded had MF joined us. Instead I die, they catch lee sin and he dies. Then MF dies alone on the tower. Shortly after, another scenario happened. If people on your team have zero map awareness or are massive pussies when you go to make a play and commit, you end up screwed for it.

 

[Maleficus]

I'm the best.

 

[zebano]

I'm the best.

and afraid to play in my ARAM games cause you know I'll whip you!

 

[crownjules]

Riot discussing the new pricing plans: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=32652006#post32652006

To sum it up, Riot is slowing down the release schedule to one champion every 3-4 weeks for a total of 14-17 champs released in 2013.

The oldest 6300 IP champs (Ez, Vlad, Renek, Noc, Lee, Brand, and Vayne) are getting immediate reduction to the 4800/880 tier.

Every time a new champ is released, the oldest 6300 champ will drop down a price tier. In addition, every third release will see a 4800 champ reduced to a lower tier based upon age, ease of use, etc.

All new champs will cost 7800 IP for the first week only. Then they'll be 6300.

All champs will follow these pricing tiers going forward:

450 IP - 260 RP
1350 IP - 585 RP
3150 IP - 790 RP
4800 IP - 880 RP
6300 IP - 975 RP

 

[EDUSAN]

its a nice idea actually... i like it... and the 7800 ip champ for the 1st week im ok with...i normally cant afford to buy the champ the 1st week since i never have 6300 spare ip

 

[HumblePie]

its a nice idea actually... i like it... and the 7800 ip champ for the 1st week im ok with...i normally cant afford to buy the champ the 1st week since i never have 6300 spare ip

That's cause they release a new champ every 2 weeks now. Getting 6300 ip every 2 weeks very hard for most gamers to do. Say you only play 1 game a day that you win for the WotD bonus every 2 weeks. That's about 230 IP on average for a win of that sort. That is still only 3220 IP. Which means making up another 3000 IP with playing games where you get on average 80 for winning and 40 for losing. Which if most normal gamers win as much as they lose, then the average is 60 IP per game played. That's roughly 50 games to play every 2 weeks on TOP of the 14 wotd games for the bonus IP. So an average of 64 games every two weeks to garner 6300 IP. Considering the average game length is about 35-40 minutes... That is quite the time investment. It's equivalent to 42.6 hours played in 2 weeks. It's doable, and some people have no problem dedicating 20+ hours a week to the game. The vast majority can't though.

But moving the schedule to 4 weeks for a new champ release instead of 2 weeks, that 6300 IP isn't so hard to do. Even if you always wait that extra week for the initial price drop to 6300 IP, it is still 6300 IP every 4 weeks. About 10 hours of game play a week. Much easier to do as a casual player. Still, not all will be able to do this, but a larger majority will.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Nice idea. It takes me approx 4 weeks to get about 6300 IP anyhow nowadays.

 

[zebano]

Just picked up Firefighter Tristana today! Now I just need guerilla (which is way to expensive) and to somehow convince Riot that I deserve Ernest Elf Tristana which is sadly the other tier of retired skins that isn't Legacy (Legendary IIRC) and won't be re-released ever. =(

Anyone else grabbing anything on the Legacy skin sale? I'm considering Red Baron Corki

 

[zebano]

Riot discussing the new pricing plans: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=32652006#post32652006

To sum it up, Riot is slowing down the release schedule to one champion every 3-4 weeks for a total of 14-17 champs released in 2013.

The oldest 6300 IP champs (Ez, Vlad, Renek, Noc, Lee, Brand, and Vayne) are getting immediate reduction to the 4800/880 tier.

Every time a new champ is released, the oldest 6300 champ will drop down a price tier. In addition, every third release will see a 4800 champ reduced to a lower tier based upon age, ease of use, etc.

All new champs will cost 7800 IP for the first week only. Then they'll be 6300.

All champs will follow these pricing tiers going forward:

450 IP - 260 RP
1350 IP - 585 RP
3150 IP - 790 RP
4800 IP - 880 RP
6300 IP - 975 RP

Excellent I can buy Vayne and finally have all the AD carries. I think I'm down 9 champs right now.

 

[crownjules]

Just picked up Firefighter Tristana today! Now I just need guerilla (which is way to expensive) and to somehow convince Riot that I deserve Ernest Elf Tristana which is sadly the other tier of retired skins that isn't Legacy (Legendary IIRC) and won't be re-released ever. =(

Anyone else grabbing anything on the Legacy skin sale? I'm considering Red Baron Corki

Considering Mr Mundoverse and Pharaoh Amumu.

 

[chillstatus]

Riot discussing the new pricing plans: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=32652006#post32652006

To sum it up, Riot is slowing down the release schedule to one champion every 3-4 weeks for a total of 14-17 champs released in 2013.

The oldest 6300 IP champs (Ez, Vlad, Renek, Noc, Lee, Brand, and Vayne) are getting immediate reduction to the 4800/880 tier.

Every time a new champ is released, the oldest 6300 champ will drop down a price tier. In addition, every third release will see a 4800 champ reduced to a lower tier based upon age, ease of use, etc.

All new champs will cost 7800 IP for the first week only. Then they'll be 6300.

All champs will follow these pricing tiers going forward:

450 IP - 260 RP
1350 IP - 585 RP
3150 IP - 790 RP
4800 IP - 880 RP
6300 IP - 975 RP

It's actually not a discussion, they are making these changes. I actually was in a focus group with them last month where they asked us about this. Good stuff all around.

 

[Firsttime]

Those changes had to happen, glad they did. The release changes are good. The price bump on new heroes is good. All good. I approve. 13-17 heroes a year is much more manageable then 26.

On legacy skins I'm sad I didn't start playing a little sooner, some of those old skins would have been nice to have. I got in on the Halloween ones from last year, but that's it. I have Bewitching Nid and some skin that's definitely not a Blitzcrank skin. Didn't get any of the Olympic, Christmas or other skins though.

I am happy that Riot refunded those of us that had those legendaries the difference in price since when we bought them it was assumed they would never go on sale. I got 910 RP back for Firefighter Trist, which btw Zeb is the best Trist skin. Probably not going to pick up any of these skins now though, I had a crack at most of them at 75% off and have skins that I like more then the legendaries.

New champ is pretty fun, seems to be falling into an anti-tank bruiser role. But she can also anti carry if build with damage. Solid all around, love her jungle too.

 

[zebano]

Those changes had to happen, glad they did. The release changes are good. The price bump on new heroes is good. All good. I approve. 13-17 heroes a year is much more manageable then 26.

On legacy skins I'm sad I didn't start playing a little sooner, some of those old skins would have been nice to have. I got in on the Halloween ones from last year, but that's it. I have Bewitching Nid and some skin that's definitely not a Blitzcrank skin. Didn't get any of the Olympic, Christmas or other skins though.

I am happy that Riot refunded those of us that had those legendaries the difference in price since when we bought them it was assumed they would never go on sale. I got 910 RP back for Firefighter Trist, which btw Zeb is the best Trist skin. Probably not going to pick up any of these skins now though, I had a crack at most of them at 75% off and have skins that I like more then the legendaries.

New champ is pretty fun, seems to be falling into an anti-tank bruiser role. But she can also anti carry if build with damage. Solid all around, love her jungle too.

The new champ is highly highly annoying as an ADC. I was on a admittedly less-experienced team and not everyone knew their roles but every single fight for me was hit- move -hit, get jumped on by Vi, rocket jump away and start to kite, Oh shit! there's her second gap closer which and she's now removed 80% of my health so Buster shot her away and begin waddling back toward the fight which is generally over with my team losing... I guess it's not much different than fighting Olaf or Irelia but it's higher initial burst from what I've seen and it's harder to kite her. I need to learn the range of her vault breaker since I'm sure plenty of bad Vi's will allow me to step outside that range but when your support doesn't help peel, you're boned.

 

[EDUSAN]

bought the new one...played 1 match against bots... i liked her... she desperately needs a frozen mallet or something to slow the enemies because once you hit your Q you will have a hard time catching them to hit the Es and proc the W...

but seemed fun as a whole... not sure if to max W, E or Q first... E seems better since its a BIG nuke if you have both charges... and W its great for jungling but im not liking it against champions because it needs you to hit 3 times the same champion to proc it... i wish it was like Jax ult that your 3rd hit does the thing regardless of what you are hitting

i hate how she stops walking when you start charging the Q, you need to be really awake to tell her to keep moving after you pressed Q

 

[HumblePie]

Vi is pretty OP.

She's a malphite with 2 gap closers, and more damage output.

Her passive is very similar to malphites. Lower levels it's on a slightly longer cooldown, but higher levels it's on a shorter cooldown. She has multiple AOE's. Her passive makes her do percentage damage that racks up massively. Percentage based off normal attacks and her abilities.

As I said, she is malphite 2.0. Damn near as tanky and 10x's the damage output.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i had an absolutely sick game as lee sin tonight.

we were fighting at the enemy mid inner turret, poking away with xerath. the fight starts and we end up killing their irelia (i think?) and the enemy vayne gets chunked pretty hard. i landed a Q on vayne but wasn't able to use it until she started retreating (and i was out of range).

but the minion train ran past the turret due to aggro, so I W'd to the minion closest to vayne, and hit my Q for a kick that killed her. everyone was totally WTF'd. i probably went an entire screen-length at 1920x1080. it was awesome