Largest Israeli strike on Gaza just days after truce with Hamas ends

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
yea lets talk about that. America and the native americans.


how come America killed, raped, destroyed, moved thousands of Native Americans yet there is no conflict today?

Because, my Native American ancestors were all but destroyed, beaten back over centuries of conflict, and herded into tiny reservations which many still live on to this day.

Surely that isn't how you hope to see the Israel-Palestine conflict come to its end?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Hey RichardE, talking ancient history isn't going bring any resolution to this conflict. In that regard I'm still hoping you might answer my question:

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
I do, but the settlements being made are already in land that has been said will stay in Israel hands during any negotiations in exchange for other land the Arabs want.

The Arabs have never said they wanted to exchange any land. How did you become mislead into believing otherwise?

Again, Israel's ongoing colonization of Palestine is the root of this conflict.

not really........your to smart to honestly believe that crock of #@$^%

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
arab attacks started it all.

The Arabs were just living in Palestine when as small number of Jews in Europe decided they wanted to establish an ethnic nationalist state in region, and hence begin to colonize it. That is what started this confict, and the ongoing colonization of the West Bank is what perpetuates it today.

Ah you only go back to the originaly creation?

There is so much more history there though, even from just say 1875-1930 Let alone the last few millenia!

seriously. if you want to go that far back we can. we can start with the hundreds of years jews were in Israel before Islam was ever created

We could, but none of it changes the fact that it was a small number of Jews in Europe who decided they wanted to establish an ethnic nationalist state in Palestine that started this conflict.

Do you think the Jews forced the Arabs to reject the two state deal? History is rampant with states being created and destroyed, Wales, Poland, Palestine, Greeks, Persian empire, ect ect, the list goes on and on. Hell, free wales groups are still doing bombings in England over the last one hundred years.

The states of Israel and Palestine could have been created together at the same time, nothing but Arab greed kept that from happening.

Actually around 1920-1925 The Arabs were up in arms over what they saw as betrayal due to the fact the British did not give them political control over the jews.

Let us not forget the Jewish people killed and attacked in the mid 1930's by Arabs as they worked on farms. Only the British intervening stopped the massacre, one that was happening far from Germany. This revolt that was suppressed more than anything decided the future of Palestine, not the "jewish plan". The own actions of the Arabs resulted in there future.


What the Arabs rejected

The Arabs wanted it all, rejected the partition plan and met a few months later to decide on military solutions to the problem.

The Un voted 33-13 for the Partition plan (the US/SovietUnion both voting for it).

There is a mini history lesson for you, if you want we can go deeper than this. Sorry to say, this issue is not as shallow as you believe it, with your idea that it is just some big jewish conspiracy that created Israel. It was actually the Jews running from Europe to Israel to escape persecution in Europe, Russia and the United States, to being pissed off at the British who attempted to restrict Jewish immigration to Israel (this is why Britain gave the issue to the UN) to Israel agreeying to the UN resolution which gave the best farm land to the arabs and split the coast. To the Jewish people again being attacked and killed (less than a few years after the holocaust) and being forced to defend themselves.

Maybe it is time for you to learn something.

 

[NoShangriLa]

It getting uglier by the minute.

Three Israelis killed, 32 injured in 100 Hamas missile attacks Monday

DEBKAfile Special Analysis

December 30, 2008, 8:07 AM (GMT+02:00)

Israeli tanks still unmoved

On Day 3 of Israel's Gaza operation, Dec. 29, Hamas hit back hard with volleys of rockets and missiles at points closer to central Israel than ever before. The three Israelis killed were IDF career officer, Sgt. Maj. Lutfi Nasr e-Din, 38, from Daliat Hacarmel, at Nahal Oz, a woman motorist, Irit Sheetrit, 39, mother of four, who sought shelter in the Ashdod bus terminus, 30 km from Gaza; and earlier in Ashkelon, Hani al-Mahdi, 27, a construction worker from the Bedouin Negev village of Ar'ur.

DEBKAfile's military sources report that Monday, Hamas had recovered sufficiently from Israel's air offensive to bring out its new Iranian Grad rockets to expand their range up to 40 km and launch them over the heads of the hundreds of Israel tanks, armored cars and artillery piled up outside the gates of Gaza and awaiting the order to move in.

At the Nahal Oz facility, in addition to the fatality, seven soldiers were injured, one critically, by incoming Palestinian mortar fire. Hamas' night barrage also struck Ashdod, Ofakim, Yavne (25 minutes drive from Tel Aviv), Netivot, Ashkelon, Sderot, Shear Hanegev. Ashkelon was battered day and night. The last round targeted school yards, kindergartens and bus stations. Ofakim, like Yavne, was hit for the first time by 3 missiles and suffered five injured.

Following this barrage, the Homeland Command extended the radius of schools that would not reopen Tuesday, Dec. 30, after the Hanukkah holiday from 20km to 30km. A quarter of a million Israelis are now on active missile alert around the clock.

Overnight, the Israeli air force pounded the Hamas-ruled government compound in Gaza City, hitting the prime minister's office, and the foreign, finance and interior ministry buildings and Hamas command centers. The Palestinians report 10 people killed, raising their death toll in three days to 360. All senior Hamas officials and commanders are ensconced safely in underground bunkers.

Three Israelis killed, 32 injured in 100 Hamas missile attacks Monday

On Day 3 of Israel's Gaza operation, Hamas hit back hard with volleys of rockets and missiles at points closer to central Israel than ever before. The three Israeli dead were IDF career officer, Sgt. Maj. Lutfi Nasr e-Din, 38, from Daliat Hacarmel, at Nahal Oz, a woman motorist, Irit Sheetrit, 39, who sought shelter in the Ashdod bus terminus, 30 km from Gaza, and earlier in Ashkelon, Hani al-Mahdi, 27, a construction worker from the Bedouin Negev village of Ar'ur.

DEBKAfile's military sources report that Monday, Hamas showed itself recovered sufficiently from Israel's air offensive to bring out its new Iranian Grad rockets to expand their range up to 40 km and launch them over the heads of the hundreds of Israel tanks, armored cars and artillery piled up outside the gates of Gaza and awaiting the order to move in.

At the Nahal Oz facility, in addition to the fatality, seven soldiers were injured, one critically, by incoming Palestinian mortar fire. Hamas' night barrage also struck Ashdod, Ofakim, Yavne (25 minutes drive from Tel Aviv), Netivot, Ashkelon, Sderot, Shear Hanegev. Ashkelon was battered day and night. The last round targeted school yards, kindergartens and bus stations. Ofakim, like Yavne, was hit for the first time by 3 missiles and suffered five injured.

Following this barrage, the Homeland Command extended the radius of schools that would not reopen Tuesday, Dec. 30, after the Hanukkah holiday from 20km to 30km. Beersheba, Gedera and Kiryat Gat are braced for attack. A quarter of a million Israelis are now on active missile alert around the clock.

Overnight, the Israeli air force pounded the Hamas-ruled government compound in Gaza City, hitting the prime minister's office, and the foreign, finance and interior ministry buildings and Hamas command centers. The Palestinians report 10 people killed, raising their death toll in three days to 360. All senior Hamas officials and commanders are ensconced safely in underground bunkers.

They can only be dug out by special forces and armored units on the ground.

The crucial battle of Gaza is therefore still to come, as indicated by Israel's deputy chief of staff Maj. Gen. Israel Harel, when he warned Monday that the hardest part of the campaign is still ahead.

Hamas tacticians pin their hopes on the overcast, rainy conditions forecast for the rest of the week to slow Israeli air attacks, delay an incursion, and further intensify their cross-border missile onslaught.

Homeland Front, police forces, 200 ambulances, 2 medical helicopters and hospitals are on alert around the clock at all targeted locations. Hospitals in central Israel are also on the ready.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Jews were looking for a place away from anti-semitism, no pogroms, and plain out humanitarian rights. thats why they tried to go back to israel, which was their home 2000 years ago.

I do understand the intent, but I also understand that establishing an ethnic nationalist state on top of an existing population can't rightly be expected lead to anything but conflict.

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
now, Israel did not build ontop of the arab settlements, they went to areas where they were not. they did not get kicked out at first, until more jews came.

Again, over 400,000 Arabs got kicked out of their towns and villages, across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, before the Arab nations went to ware against Israel.

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
secondly, lets be honest here, look at the amount of land available for Arabs to live in, and look at what Israel was trying to live with.

I am looking at Israel not trying to live within any permanent borders, but rather contenuing to expand their colonization across the West Bank.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE
I do, but the settlements being made are already in land that has been said will stay in Israel hands during any negotiations in exchange for other land the Arabs want.

The Arabs have never said they wanted to exchange any land.

Are you denying this fact?

 

[ericlp]

Israel is such a panzyass nation. All they do is send over a few fighters and a few army brigades then when a few get shot they come running back home to mama asking if someone else can fight their war and build more hardware for them.

Why don't they just grow a pair, send a few 100 thousand troops in and take care of the problem? They are beyond help if you ask me. Sounds to me like they could be over run pretty easy. Whats next will they ask US for help when they get their ass's kicked again? I say fuck em let them dig their own graves.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Israel is such a panzyass nation. All they do is send over a few fighters and a few army brigades then when a few get shot they come running back home to mama asking if someone else can fight their war and build more hardware for them.

Why don't they just grow a pair, send a few 100 thousand troops in and take care of the problem? They are beyond help if you ask me. Sounds to me like they could be over run pretty easy. Whats next will they ask US for help when they get their ass's kicked again? I say fuck em let them dig their own graves.

because, if they ever did this, the world and the UN will condemn them. just look at what is happening them now? they are trying to get rid of the problem but everyone thinks its their fault.

Israel has never lost a war. there have been areed on cease fires on both sides, but any war that Israel has fought in, Israel has actually brought the ass kicking. need proof? ill gladly show you it if you want to honestly see

 

[Freshgeardude]

oh and by the way TheSnowman, you say its from Israeli occupancy which is why this conflict is occurring. well lets look back at 1948.

The War commenced on the termination of the Mandate on 15 May 1948 following a previous phase of war of 1947?1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine, commenced in Arab rejection of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state.


and...

1949 Armistice Agreements


In 1949, Israel signed separate armistices with Egypt on 24 February, Lebanon on 23 March, Jordan on 3 April, and Syria on 20 July. The new borders of Israel, as set by the agreements, encompassed about 78% of mandatory Palestine as it stood after the independence of Jordan in 1946. Considering the original British mandate (including Jordan, which was included within the Mandate in the summer of 1921, but excluded from the provisions for a Jewish National Home), however, Israel was created only on 18% of the total area of Palestine and Jordan. This was about 50 percent more than the UN partition proposal allotted it. These cease-fire lines were known afterwards as the "Green Line". The Gaza Strip and the West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively. The United Nations Truce Supervision Organization and Mixed Armistice Commissions were set up to monitor ceasefires, supervise the armistice agreements; to prevent isolated incidents from escalating and assist other UN peacekeeping operations in the region.




they asked for war, they lost land. good job dumb ass arabs.

here is what was agreed to what ended up happening
link with maps


oh and may I remind you that 7 nations, with like a bazziiilion dollars lost to a new nation of people from concentration camps and refugees? those who couldnt even fight in the beginning

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
oh and by the way TheSnowman, you say its from Israeli occupancy which is why this conflict is occurring. well lets look back at 1948.

I assure you again, I am familiar with the history.

However, I don't see anything in history to justify Israeli troops displacing 400,000 Arab civilians across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, which again happened prior to the Arab nations ever going to war against Israel. Furthermore, I've yet to see any jjustification for Israel's ever expanding colonization of the West Bank.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
oh and by the way TheSnowman, you say its from Israeli occupancy which is why this conflict is occurring. well lets look back at 1948.

I assure you again, I am familiar with the history.

Read the rest of what I wrote.

However, I don't see anything in history to justify Israeli troops displacing 400,000 Arab civilians across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, which again happened prior to the Arab nations ever going to war against Israel. Furthermore, I've yet to see any jjustification for Israel's ever expanding colonization of the West Bank.

I have already explained why Israelis are colonizing in the west bank.


I hope you do know the arab nations declared war on Israel 1 day after Israel declared independence. also, it was, as I said commenced in Arab rejection of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state.


I have explained why to your answers many times. stop repeating yourself, because I feel like I am repeating myself more than twice

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

It getting uglier by the minute.

*snip*

Yikes. It may be time to put a large dent in all of the militant organizations again. Maybe turn a blind eye for 30 days of all-out assault on anyone that thinks "jihad" is a good idea.

Watch out civilians, you are the ones that pay the most.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

It getting uglier by the minute.

*snip*

Yikes. It may be time to put a large dent in all of the militant organizations again. Maybe turn a blind eye for 30 days of all-out assault on anyone that thinks "jihad" is a good idea.

Watch out civilians, you are the ones that pay the most.

you are basically putting a rose out for people who harbor terrorists or are terrorists, or look at terrorists and do nothing.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

It getting uglier by the minute.

*snip*

Yikes. It may be time to put a large dent in all of the militant organizations again. Maybe turn a blind eye for 30 days of all-out assault on anyone that thinks "jihad" is a good idea.

Watch out civilians, you are the ones that pay the most.

you are basically putting a rose out for people who harbor terrorists or are terrorists, or look at terrorists and do nothing.

They can hate you with all the hatred in the world, but if they never have and never will harm you then what did that do to you?

I'd have a different opinion if Ocguy31 wished the hamas leaders a long life though.

 

[Freshgeardude]

/points at sig

The people of my religion are being attacked by these terrorists every day.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
/points at sig

The people of my religion are being attacked by these terrorists every day.

What I tried to say is that not all palis are actively trying to kill you. Feel free to kill those who try or directly support those who try to kill you, but those who still wish you death but do nothing do not diverse to die. Collateral damage is a essay I'd rather write later.

It is not their fault that they where brainwashed as children.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
However, I don't see anything in history to justify Israeli troops displacing 400,000 Arab civilians across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, which again happened prior to the Arab nations ever going to war against Israel. Furthermore, I've yet to see any jjustification for Israel's ever expanding colonization of the West Bank.

I hope you do know the arab nations declared war on Israel 1 day after Israel declared independence.

I did read all of what you wrote, and I do know the Arab nation declared war on Israel the day directly after they declared independence. Again, I am familiar with the history of the region.

What I am pointing out is what happened directly prior to that. Again, Israeli troops displaced over 400,000 Arab civilians across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, within the months prior to declaring independence.

So, again I ask you; how was Israel's conquest of those towns and villages, which over 400,000 Arabs were driven from, anything less than an act of war?

 

[Freshgeardude]

well I have to agree its not their fault that they were brain washed since a child, I still believe that every person should think with equality and humanitarian beliefs.

people have brains, they do what they want, what they think. those who are smart, report terrorism to Israel and leave. those who let terrorists live in their buildings, then die when that building is destroyed, should not be considered a civilian, rather a terrorist for A. not reporting it, B. not leaving or C. thinking nothing will happen even though they know this terrorist is in the building.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
However, I don't see anything in history to justify Israeli troops displacing 400,000 Arab civilians across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, which again happened prior to the Arab nations ever going to war against Israel. Furthermore, I've yet to see any jjustification for Israel's ever expanding colonization of the West Bank.

I hope you do know the arab nations declared war on Israel 1 day after Israel declared independence.

I did read all of what you wrote, and I do know the Arab nation declared war on Israel the day directly after they declared independence. Again, I am familiar with the history of the region.

What I am pointing out is what happened directly prior to that. Again, Israeli troops displaced over 400,000 Arab civilians across both sides of the U.N. partition plan, within the months prior to declaring independence.

So, again I ask you; how was Israel's conquest of those towns and villages, which over 400,000 Arabs were driven, from anything less than an act of war?

its moving the civilians after they attacked on Israel.

like I said, its like israel moving into the west bank to prevent attacks on jewish settlements.

they could either stand around the settlements and basically take the hits, or deal with their problem and move them.


like I said again, the arabs started attacking first, they were the aggressors.

we can go back and back and back in history to when the first attack on either an arab or jewish settlement happened, and I can guarantee you it was an arab attacking a jew.

how do I know this? most jews up until 1850 were all strictly religious, what we call orthodox Judaism. under jewish law, it states different laws such as, love your neighbor like yourself, respect all human beings and animals, and much more


the arabs expect to do what they want, attack without any retaliation. sucks for them now that gaza is getting its face rolled over

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
well I have to agree its not their fault that they were brain washed since a child, I still believe that every person should think with equality and humanitarian beliefs.

people have brains, they do what they want, what they think. those who are smart, report terrorism to Israel and leave. those who let terrorists live in their buildings, then die when that building is destroyed, should not be considered a civilian, rather a terrorist for A. not reporting it, B. not leaving or C. thinking nothing will happen even though they know this terrorist is in the building.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. Adults are accountable for their own actions, but when you throw children into the mix then even I will scream bloody murder. But I do not scream bloody murder for every child killed because hamas uses human shields. To know that by pulling that trigger you will kill children when you can wait and spare their lives is unjustifiable, but when terrorists make it so that you always have the chance of killing innocents then I will not stop you and yell bloody murder at those who put them in harms way.

That said, avoid killing adults who are not involved when you can, blow their house to hell if they give food and shelter to those who try to kill innocents (noting the above paragraph).

 

[Freshgeardude]

well thats exactly it. Hamas never stops using civilians as shields

that attack on gaza which killed like 200 people or whatever was a Hamas parade. anyone who was there was obviously part of hamas or interested in it.

now if Israel were to bomb a completely different place, that was only homes, no reports of missile fire from there, no terrorism, then we can say Israel is a bad country for doing that, but it has never and will never do such a thing. now hamas on the other hand...

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
its moving the civilians after they attacked on Israel.

No it isn't. Israeli troops completely depopulated 199 Arab localities of all civilians; men, woman, and children. Israelis had suffered various attacks from Arabs prior to that, as had Arabs suffered attacks from Israelis, but Israelis were never attacked by numbers anywhere near the over 400,000 civilians they displaced before they declared independence.

 

[Freshgeardude]

anyways, its 4am, we can discuss more tomorrow, im going to bed

 

[Freshgeardude]

last reply for the night...


so? its called pre-caution. they were protecting themselves from more arab attacks. besides. if I live in a 5 square mile radius, and EVERYWHERE around me are my enemies, and I am stronger than them, but they still do guerrilla type attacks on me, would I rather deal with it or move them away?


the obvious answer is obvious.

 

[kylebisme]

Understood, yet another late night for us. I hope I can look forward to seeing you reply to my post above sometime tomorrow.