Largest Israeli strike on Gaza just days after truce with Hamas ends

[keird]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Two of those that initially stood up against the Soviet influence - and were raped as a result.

Yeah. It didn't work out well for them. But we always have the Ukrainians!

 

[dmcowen674]

OP needs to update death toll - 400 and climbing

1.2 million to go

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
OP needs to update death toll - 400 and climbing

1.2 million to go

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: keird
The proof is in the pudding. Where are the Palastinians reinforcments?

Great question! :thumbsup:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: keird
The proof is in the pudding. Where are the Palastinians reinforcments?

Great question! :thumbsup:

Open ones ears - can you not hear the armies of patriotic Arabs marching to their support.
Or is that the hot wind of the clerics adn those that send women and children to do their dirty work?
If the Palestinians are so in the right, why does Egypt support the isolation of Gaza. Where are the Arab 'sopen arms?

 

[ProfJohn]

Why is Hamas still launching missiles at Israel??

Are 300 dead not enough for them to get the message?

If Israel invades we may see the death toll double and in return Hamas may get to kill a few dozen Israeli soldiers. Is it really worth it??

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Why is Hamas still launching missiles at Israel??

Are 300 dead not enough for them to get the message?

If Israel invades we may see the death toll double and in return Hamas may get to kill a few dozen Israeli soldiers. Is it really worth it??

To them I'm sure it is. To quote Ho Chi Minh, "You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it." The Palestinians will never tire of fighting Israel until they are given a state of their own. Israel will (and to a large extent already has) tire of fighting enough someday that they will give them most or all of what they want. And no, I don't mean the destruction of Israel as a state, but a viable Palestinian state that the vast majority of Palestinians will accept.

 

[ProfJohn]

But Hamas does not want a 'viable' state they want ALL of it and Israel will never give that to them.

And there is a huge difference between this and Vietnam. Israel is fighting for their homes and will never 'tire' enough to give up.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
But Hamas does not want a 'viable' state they want ALL of it and Israel will never give that to them.

And there is a huge difference between this and Vietnam. Israel is fighting for their homes and will never 'tire' enough to give up.

Sure Hamas won't get everything it wants, Israel will continue to exist, but the Palestinians will fight forever until they have their own state. I absolutely 100% guarantee you that this fight between Israel and the Palestinians will eventually end in an Israeli surrender, where they will cede all or virtually all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

There is simply a large disparity between the motivation for Israel to continue to occupy those territories and Palestinians' desire to end it. It is very much like Vietnam for Israel.

EDIT: I know that Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel, but that's not the base of Hamas' support in Palestine. (social services is) Vast majorities of the Palestinians support a negotiated peace with Israel, and want Hamas to drop its insistence on Israel's destruction.

 

[ProfJohn]

Didn't Clinton create a plan that would give them 98% of what they wanted and they still turned it down??

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
But Hamas does not want a 'viable' state they want ALL of it and Israel will never give that to them.

And there is a huge difference between this and Vietnam. Israel is fighting for their homes and will never 'tire' enough to give up.

Sure Hamas won't get everything it wants, Israel will continue to exist, but the Palestinians will fight forever until they have their own state. I absolutely 100% guarantee you that this fight between Israel and the Palestinians will eventually end in an Israeli surrender, where they will cede all or virtually all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

There is simply a large disparity between the motivation for Israel to continue to occupy those territories and Palestinians' desire to end it. It is very much like Vietnam for Israel.

They offered all the terretories and what all Palestine wanted...

Than Palestine asked for more (Jerusalem).

This war will not end until Israel is pushed to the point of killing every single Hamas individual.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Didn't Clinton create a plan that would give them 98% of what they wanted and they still turned it down??

I believe so.. and the last 2% was the extermination of every last Jew.

 

[ProfJohn]

This reminds me of one of my fav Christmas songs...

"War is over... if you want it"

Obviously one side does not want it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
But Hamas does not want a 'viable' state they want ALL of it and Israel will never give that to them.

And there is a huge difference between this and Vietnam. Israel is fighting for their homes and will never 'tire' enough to give up.

Sure Hamas won't get everything it wants, Israel will continue to exist, but the Palestinians will fight forever until they have their own state. I absolutely 100% guarantee you that this fight between Israel and the Palestinians will eventually end in an Israeli surrender, where they will cede all or virtually all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

There is simply a large disparity between the motivation for Israel to continue to occupy those territories and Palestinians' desire to end it. It is very much like Vietnam for Israel.

I honestly believe that Palestinian terrorists and others will continue to strike at Israel even if they concede all of the "occupied" territories and allow a separate state.

There will always be a fanatic element within the Palestinian population -- and elsewhere -- who will not settle for anything less than the total removal of Israel from the Middle East.

Sad that...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
But Hamas does not want a 'viable' state they want ALL of it and Israel will never give that to them.

And there is a huge difference between this and Vietnam. Israel is fighting for their homes and will never 'tire' enough to give up.

Sure Hamas won't get everything it wants, Israel will continue to exist, but the Palestinians will fight forever until they have their own state. I absolutely 100% guarantee you that this fight between Israel and the Palestinians will eventually end in an Israeli surrender, where they will cede all or virtually all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

There is simply a large disparity between the motivation for Israel to continue to occupy those territories and Palestinians' desire to end it. It is very much like Vietnam for Israel.

They offered all the terretories and what all Palestine wanted...

Than Palestine asked for more (Jerusalem).

This war will not end until Israel is pushed to the point of killing every single Hamas individual.

1.) Jerusalem will be part of any two state solution, that's a fact that both sides know.

2.) Israel is incapable of killing all of Hamas, and you know it.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but this will end in an effective Israeli surrender, there really isn't much way around it.

 

[Freshgeardude]

imo Israel should tell egypt to let the civilians in, help fund it, then bomb the living fuck out of gaza so anyone left can be killed.


let egypt deal with the problem with their people, not Israel

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

I honestly believe that Palestinian terrorists and others will continue to strike at Israel even if they concede all of the "occupied" territories and allow a separate state.

There will always be a fanatic element within the Palestinian population -- and elsewhere -- who will not settle for anything less than the total removal of Israel from the Middle East.

Sad that...

Yeap, there always will be that element. The mass, organized resistance will fall away however because there simply isn't the public support for it.

I referenced this in an edit to my other post.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
imo Israel should tell egypt to let the civilians in, help fund it, then bomb the living fuck out of gaza so anyone left can be killed.

let egypt deal with the problem with their people, not Israel

If it ever comes down to expelling all Palestinians, then I'd rather see Syria deal with the burden... after all, they're already bedfellows.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

I honestly believe that Palestinian terrorists and others will continue to strike at Israel even if they concede all of the "occupied" territories and allow a separate state.

There will always be a fanatic element within the Palestinian population -- and elsewhere -- who will not settle for anything less than the total removal of Israel from the Middle East.

Sad that...

Yeap, there always will be that element. The mass, organized resistance will fall away however because there simply isn't the public support for it.

I referenced this in an edit to my other post.

Unfortunately, I believe that "element" is much larger than you know...

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
But Hamas does not want a 'viable' state they want ALL of it and Israel will never give that to them.

And there is a huge difference between this and Vietnam. Israel is fighting for their homes and will never 'tire' enough to give up.

Sure Hamas won't get everything it wants, Israel will continue to exist, but the Palestinians will fight forever until they have their own state. I absolutely 100% guarantee you that this fight between Israel and the Palestinians will eventually end in an Israeli surrender, where they will cede all or virtually all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

There is simply a large disparity between the motivation for Israel to continue to occupy those territories and Palestinians' desire to end it. It is very much like Vietnam for Israel.

They offered all the terretories and what all Palestine wanted...

Than Palestine asked for more (Jerusalem).

This war will not end until Israel is pushed to the point of killing every single Hamas individual.

1.) Jerusalem will be part of any two state solution, that's a fact that both sides know.

2.) Israel is incapable of killing all of Hamas, and you know it.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but this will end in an effective Israeli surrender, there really isn't much way around it.

You don't understand the mindset of Israe. They won't "surrender". There will be peace, they will give back the terretories that they took when peace is achived (as they did with Israel), they would even split Jerusalem probally (The arabs wanted the entire damn city) but Israel itself will always exist in a superior sense to the Arab nations surrounding it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RichardE

You don't understand the mindset of Israe. They won't "surrender". There will be peace, they will give back the terretories that they took when peace is achived (as they did with Israel), they would even split Jerusalem probally (The arabs wanted the entire damn city) but Israel itself will always exist in a superior sense to the Arab nations surrounding it.

No, I do understand the mindset of Israel, and the solution that you said here is pretty much exactly the solution that I spelled out in an earlier post. I happen to view that as a surrender on Israel's part, but if you don't that's fine by me.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

I honestly believe that Palestinian terrorists and others will continue to strike at Israel even if they concede all of the "occupied" territories and allow a separate state.

There will always be a fanatic element within the Palestinian population -- and elsewhere -- who will not settle for anything less than the total removal of Israel from the Middle East.

Sad that...

Yeap, there always will be that element. The mass, organized resistance will fall away however because there simply isn't the public support for it.

I referenced this in an edit to my other post.

Unfortunately, I believe that "element" is much larger than you know...

Right now it appears to be about 15% of Palestinians according to public opinion polling. This is at the height on an intolerable situation and is probably not representative of the long term appeal for the position.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Didn't Clinton create a plan that would give them 98% of what they wanted and they still turned it down??

It was marketed as such by many, but it was nothing of the sort:

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/ho...s_offers/barak_eng.swf

Please take the time to read though that. And of course look elsewhere to confirm it if you don't want to trust the source.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RichardE

You don't understand the mindset of Israe. They won't "surrender". There will be peace, they will give back the terretories that they took when peace is achived (as they did with Israel), they would even split Jerusalem probally (The arabs wanted the entire damn city) but Israel itself will always exist in a superior sense to the Arab nations surrounding it.

No, I do understand the mindset of Israel, and the solution that you said here is pretty much exactly the solution that I spelled out in an earlier post. I happen to view that as a surrender on Israel's part, but if you don't that's fine by me.

Israel has always stated that as long as peace was offered it would give back the occupied terretories. With that mindset, a "surrender" would entail loosing lands that were not part of the original British two state solution. If the Arab nations attacked and Israel lost X amount of original land, that would be a surrender.

A two state solution would be amazing, the Palestinian people, the "people" are amazing individuals who sadly are robbed of a future by extremists. It would be tragic for them to have to die due to there apathy to there more radical individuals. A two state, an Israel/Palestinian state would be a powerfull force in the Middle East. I hope that day comes, but only as long as Israel as a nation is preserved. The held land is held as long as peace is elusive, if peace comes It would be a great day, as long as the peace does not cost Israel what it is.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel has always stated that as long as peace was offered it would give back the occupied terretories.

And at the same time Israel has always continued colonizing the West Bank. What Israel says means nothing in contrast to what Israel does.