KYRO III probably out in Q1 2002. What are its known specs?

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EMAN

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Jan 28, 2000
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But they will not run as fast as they will with a top of the line card. Also while I don't care too much about future games the fact remains that a faster card today will run tomorrow's games faster.

While that is true people still get over 60fps with a geforce 2 and radeon and run their games in high resolutions.



You're wrong - it makes a large difference. I would not be able to run my heaviest games at 1152 x 864 x 32 if I had anything slower than a Ti500.

BFG, your only describing your preference. Most people on this board don't need 150fps and are happy with 60fps. I get over 80fps in that resolution. Does that mean I need to upgrade? My games run smooth and that's what matters. Does it affect my gameplay? Not. I still will whoop your ass in Unreal T. since I don't play quake 3. You always describe your preference but that fact of the matter is that your preference is completely off with a typical gamer. It doesn't make a large difference but a tiny one. It makes it little bit smoother.


So don't buy it then. I'm not forcing you to but to me it is worth it so that's how I choose to spend my money. Just because you can't justify it, it doesn't mean that there's not a valid reason to do it.

All I'm saying is there's a way to game efficiently without buying the latest greatest hardware. I can still use AA in racing games, use Aniso. filter in FPS games. While gaming is fun it's not my life. I've got mouths to feed and bills to pay. I've always been a hardware enthusiast where I buy the card to learn more about it but real gameplay doesn't affect by buying the latest hardware.



No it isn't. Do you think (for example) that there's a difference betwen 135 FPS and 120 FPS in Quake3? Well there is. Try playing the Dredwerktz map and go to the outside area with all of the bots set to nightmare difficulty and all firing a wide range of guns. That outside area will either slow down to framerates in the high 30s or the low 50s depending on whether you get 135 FPS or 120 FPS in the timedemo of demo four.

I never said there wasn't a difference between higher fps. But your just being anal if you ask me.


Now go to the other side of the area and try to rail someone standing on the ledge. Without ultra high framerates it's impossible to do this so your ability to play the game is severely crippled. All because somebody made the blanket statement that there's no difference between 120 FPS and 135 FPS.

That is probably a game flaw. You should email carmack and bi+ch him out for making even the geforce 3 ti500 craw in certain situations. Tell him not to do that because Nvidia=god:cool:.


There is no magic number which is the pinnacle of performance so any such blanket statements you make are false. Don't under-estimate the defintion of playable and don't over-estimate your system's abilities.

There is no magic number but their is rule of thumb at 60fps. Long as the game doesn't dip below 25fps - 30fps there is no problem. And the voodoo did this very well while Nvidia and ATI don't.
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
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<< I doubt very much that Unreal2 will be released in March this year. Also we see more doom and gloom from a Kyro fanboy while he forgets that his marvellous technology (Kyro2) is completely obsolete because it's beaten by the GF2 Pro and the Radeon 64 MB DDR. >>



Regarding Unreal 2, people also said that Serious Sam, Max Payne etc etc would run like a slideshow on the Kyro 2, well I can run games at 1024x768x32bit fine. EG: Max Payne - 52fps (anandtech truck exploding benchmark), Serious Sam - 84fps (High Quality using Dunes demo), Quake 3 - 95fps (High Quality using demo 4) which IMO isn't a slideshow.

BFG10K:Maybe you should check out the Kyro 2 review by Tom's Hardware Guide which is a good guide to which is the better video card, radeon ddr, kyro 2 or geforce2, also pay special attention to the FSAA scores!

Tom's Hardware Guide (the best review site on the net)

BFG10K:-

1.You say the Kyro 2 is obsolete then you mention 2 video cards which have been seen in numerous reviews to usually offer compariable performance, although in the case of the Radeon DDR usually less performance than a Kyro 2.

How obsolete is the Kyro 2 if the video cards you mention can ONLY compete with it because they have DDR memory which usually pushes them out of the price range of the Kyro 2 anyway (atleast in the UK)?

2.Have you actually used a Kyro 2 yet and if not then I suggest you stick to making comments on products you HAVE used instead of boring everyone with comments about something you know nothing about.

EDITED:Removed Mersey Trout reference with regard to BFG10K! <JOKE> ;)
 

Innoka

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Jan 26, 2001
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You have to be careful when talking about Kyro FSAA. I have seen a lot of variation in reported benchmarks. Whilst it seems that at 640x480, 4xFSAA gives very minor hit (<20%), at 1024x768 it is averaging around 66%, hardly better than the 75% of most cards before it. Moreover the Kyro II did not get faster dropping to 16 bit color. So, if you're "forced" into low framerates anyway by new games, the Kyro may benefit you at low resolution... assuming the GF2 or Radeon could not run it that much faster.
gamebasement Kyro review shows FSAA topping out.
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
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<< You have to be careful when talking about Kyro FSAA. I have seen a lot of variation in reported benchmarks. Whilst it seems that at 640x480, 4xFSAA gives very minor hit (<20%), at 1024x768 it is averaging around 66%, hardly better than the 75% of most cards before it. Moreover the Kyro II did not get faster dropping to 16 bit color. So, if you're "forced" into low framerates anyway by new games, the Kyro may benefit you at low resolution... assuming the GF2 or Radeon could not run it that much faster.
gamebasement Kyro review shows FSAA topping out.
>>



With current video cards 4x FSAA is a feature you'd only use at lower resolutions, from what I've seen at 1024x768 and 4x FSAA even the Geforce3 and Radeon 8500 take a large performance hit. I guess Nvidia and Ati couldn't offer FSAA with little performance hit, we'll just have to wait and see what the Kyro 3 can do, I hear Nvidia have already started writing out the anti-kyro 3 memo's! ;)

anandtech fsaa results

Maybe it's just me expecting too much, but if I spend £200-£300 on a video card then I expect to run games at 1024x768x32bit with 4x fsaa and get atleast 100fps, can the Geforce3 or Radeon 8500 do that and if not whyn't?
 

nemesismk2

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This is really funny, esp for people who upgraded to a Geforce3 from a Geforce2:-

For spending $200 or so on your Geforce3 you are rewarded with the following performance gain over a Geforce2 Pro:- 1024x768x32bit

Quake 3 - an extra 43fps ($4.65 per fps to get an extra 43fps)
Max Payne - an extra 7fps ($28.57 per fps to get the incredible 7fps extra)

Yes but your saying we can run games at higher resolutions so here's 1600x1200:-

Quake 3 - an extra 49fps (you spent only $4.08 per fps)
Max Payne - an extra 22fps (a bargain, you spent $9.09 per fps)

Here's the even better news, before any games are released which actually support the features in your new shiny Geforce3 it will be obsolete because Nvidia will release a newer faster video card, isn't that great news! :D
 

Powervr

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Jun 8, 2000
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"You have to be careful when talking about Kyro FSAA. I have seen a lot of variation in reported benchmarks. Whilst it seems that at 640x480, 4xFSAA gives very minor hit (<20%), at 1024x768 it is averaging around 66%, hardly better than the 75% of most cards before it. Moreover the Kyro II did not get faster dropping to 16 bit color. So, if you're "forced" into low framerates anyway by new games, the Kyro may benefit you at low resolution... assuming the GF2 or Radeon could not run it that much faster."

ya!!!
kyro 2 FSAA is not free!

but let's talk about kyro 3, it is supposed to have free FSAA (regartheless the resolution used) I don't know how it's possible, but they (imagination) already have some working silicon with that feature (for portables I tihnk).
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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what I did say was that because of CRT half the time the pixel is obscured (with 60 hz),

The human eye can see much more than 24 FPS PowerVR and it doesn't matter what zealotry spin you put on it to try to convince the others. The fact is that a card that can only pull 25 FPS is going to be absolutely crawling.

While that is true people still get over 60fps with a geforce 2 and radeon and run their games in high resolutions.

Good for them. But don't tell me what I need.

BFG, your only describing your preference. Most people on this board don't need 150fps and are happy with 60fps.

And you're describing your preference which is fine, but don't tell me what I need and don't make false blanket statements about what the human eye can't see just to justify your preferences. If you're happy with your setup, fine. But don't tell me what I'm happy with and what I can and can't see.

That is probably a game flaw. You should email carmack and bi+ch him out for making even the geforce 3 ti500 craw in certain situations. Tell him not to do that because Nvidia=god:cool:.

Are you tyring to be funny or are you just trolling?

There is no magic number but their is rule of thumb at 60fps. Long as the game doesn't dip below 25fps - 30fps there is no problem.

That's not my rule of thumb because those numbers are far too low. If you can't see a difference, fine. But don't tell me that I can't because of some rubbish you've read about the human eye.

BFG10K:Maybe you should check out the Kyro 2 review by Tom's Hardware Guide which is a good guide to which is the better video card, radeon ddr, kyro 2 or geforce2, also pay special attention to the FSAA scores!

That review is dated April 2001. We all know that ATi and nVidia have released a number of driver releases in that time. I notice that most Kyro2 fans avoid Anand's latest review which shows the card getting trashed across the board.

1.You say the Kyro 2 is obsolete then you mention 2 video cards which have been seen in numerous reviews to usually offer compariable performance, although in the case of the Radeon DDR usually less performance than a Kyro 2.

I mention them because I'd pick them because they're faster than the Kyro2 and have more features.

iHow obsolete is the Kyro 2 if the video cards you mention can ONLY compete with it because they have DDR memory which usually pushes them out of the price range of the Kyro 2 anyway (atleast in the UK)?

That's a strawman and you know it.

2.Have you actually used a Kyro 2 yet and if not then I suggest you stick to making comments on products you HAVE used instead of boring everyone with comments about something you know nothing about.

Another strawman. I know that 25 FPS is a slideshow without testing every single video card in existance.

This is really funny, esp for people who upgraded to a Geforce3 from a Geforce2:-

And it's really funny to watch Kyro fans harp on how good their card is all the while ignoring the modern reviews which show their card pretty much getting pummeled across the board. It's also funny to watch the dellusional statements about the definition of playability and the "human eye can only see x FPS" statements, where x just happens to be the score the Kyro2 is getting.

Here's the even better news, before any games are released which actually support the features in your new shiny Geforce3 it will be obsolete because Nvidia will release a newer faster video card, isn't that great news! :D

It's also funny how the Kyro2 never gets obsolete no matter how slow it is or how many features it lacks but every nVidia card is always obsolete as soon as a newer nVidia card comes along. I love that interesting logic as it's blind zealotry at its best.
 

HappyGamer2

Banned
Jun 12, 2000
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and my old voodoo5 still rules;) actually I still like the big B$tch, LOL my radeon is ok too but........V5 rules:D
 

vedin

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Mar 18, 2001
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BFG, I don't avoid the Anandtech review because it's getting trashed, I aviod it because I know good and well that a Kyro 2 is almost twice as fast as they made it out to be in that review. For instance, Serious Sam should have been a solid 60fps in any demo they put it through. In every benchmark they used settings that would half, if not more, the Kyro's performance such as Anis filtering, extra detail layers, or universal config files. Nvidia may have the raw power to overcome these obstacles with little effort, and ATI might as well, but the Kyro requires certain settings, though not necessarily uglier settings, to perform adaquately. And let's see..I've seen Serious Sam both with, and without 4 tap Anistropy and I couldn't tell one little bit of difference, and yes, I know what to look for. However, the frame rate dropped drastically, so it wasn't worth it at all. I know that Nvidia's and ATI's drivers/speed for thier cards have improved, but just look at the Kyro's frame rates at Tom's vs. Anandtech's. Tom's are higher because he was using the same settings that EVERY Kyro 2 owner would be using. Anyway, last time I'm arguing with you over how fast a Kyro really is, and what is "smooth".
 

Innoka

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Jan 26, 2001
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I only got involved in this thread in the first place out of mild curiosity in the Kyro II. I feel like I've stepped into some kind of internet kindergarten for videocard freaks. Financial choices are all relative. If you can't or won't pay over $100 you don't have to thrash about trying to make digs at those that can and will. Ultimately they're the ones that are laughing.

If people consider cards obsolete when faster models with more features are available, then the Kyro II was obsolete on the day of its release.
 

Powervr

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Jun 8, 2000
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we are talking about a card that could end up above 200 US$...
Kyro 3

what I try to illustrate here is proof that kyro 3 will be great... like the old/obsolete kyro 2 is...

and yes I have the money for a geforce 3 ... but I don't see the need to have it...

let's talk about kyro 2 (not talking about kyro 3 here) lack of features:

TBR (tile base rendering) saves bandwidth so with more intensive games it will not drop frames like the rest.

hidden surface removal (because of the above kyro is 99% efficient)

8 layers multitexturing in a single pass (geforce 3 only have the capability to 4 layers and because of this, and the way geforce 3 works it introduces colors error when more than 4 layers is needed, unlike kyro 1/2.

those that wanted enviroment bumpmapping with a nvidia card had to wait for geforce 3 (geforce 2 series don't have these kind of bumpmapping.

kyro 2 renders everything in 32 bits, improving older games

kyro 2 is (I don't know if she is unique in this aspect) able to force FSAA even with older games (I played the last monkey island with 4x FSAA, at the only resolution the game supports 640x480)

kyro 2 lack o features?
well T&L is done by the cpu so it is still a feature that kyro 1/2 "suppports"

cube mapping?
there .. it's the only feature kyro truly lacks (what is the game that requires this feature to shine ? )

yes it's so obsolete...
LOL...

regarding geforce 3 features... well the power of geforce 3 vertex shaders, pixel shaders aren't enough for real use...(X-box have double the power in vertex shaders processing)
I think the first game to support this will require something like geforce 4 or even better, to run with no flaws

I bought a aquarium of 1000 US$ last week ...
so I guess I have money for a new video card..
the problem is that I still do not require one...
;)
 

nemesismk2

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Sep 29, 2001
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BFG10K:-



<< That review is dated April 2001. We all know that ATi and nVidia have released a number of driver releases in that time. I notice that most Kyro2 fans avoid Anand's latest review which shows the card getting trashed across the board. >>



Yes the Tom's hardware guide is an old review, can you show me a new review which backs up the recent Anandtech scores for the Kyro 2?

Actually we've been through the reasons why the recent Anandtech reviews are wrong, they even contradict other Anandtech reviews. Once again show me a review which backs up the findings in the latest Anandtech review, I'm pretty sure I asked that the last time!



<< Another strawman. I know that 25 FPS is a slideshow without testing every single video card in existance. >>



Yeah that pretty much sums you up, you make comments on things you havn't even used, well it's been confirmed people, we have a complete mersey trout here and a big one too! ;)



<< It's also funny how the Kyro2 never gets obsolete no matter how slow it is or how many features it lacks but every nVidia card is always obsolete as soon as a newer nVidia card comes along. I love that interesting logic as it's blind zealotry at its best. >>



You mean GF3 features which are so far unsupported and if they are anything like hardware t&l willn't be supported for some time to come, the problem with Nvidia is that their 6month product cycle is out of sync with the software industry as a whole. If any GF3 features are added to games will be added not in the design phase but as an after thought added late in the development phase, honestly BFG10K I don't expect you to understand such things with you probably still being in school and all.
 

Powervr

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Jun 8, 2000
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well...

A link to a kyro demo..
this only runs on kyro because it needs some "tricks"/features that only kyro based cards have...
direct3d fur

if you want more, go to a kyro site ... there are lots of interesting demos that require a kyro 1/2 to run...

so geforce 3 is obsolete?
;)
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
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<< well...

A link to a kyro demo..
this only runs on kyro because it needs some "tricks"/features that only kyro based cards have...
direct3d fur

if you want more, go to a kyro site ... there are lots of interesting demos that require a kyro 1/2 to run...

so geforce 3 is obsolete?
;)
>>



Yes sad but true, it was really doomed from the start because it was based on an outdated idea called immediate mode rendering. Nvidia in their wisdom (lack of) are sticking to IMR like 3DFX tried to stick to 16bit and we all know what happened to them! ;)
 

Powervr

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Jun 8, 2000
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if you ver saw this demo..
you will actually see duck fur...
Amazing for a 60 us$ video card...
;)
 

Sunner

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Oct 9, 1999
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<< Yes sad but true, it was really doomed from the start because it was based on an outdated idea called immediate mode rendering. Nvidia in their wisdom (lack of) are sticking to IMR like 3DFX tried to stick to 16bit and we all know what happened to them >>


Tell that to mercury research and every other market stat firm out there, who constantly rate nVidia as the #1 video board maker, with ATi as #2.
And far down under both of them somewhere comes PowerVR/ST.

Dont get me wrong, I love competition as much as the next guy, but the zealotry of some people here is absolutely redicilous.
 

nemesismk2

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Sep 29, 2001
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<<

<< Yes sad but true, it was really doomed from the start because it was based on an outdated idea called immediate mode rendering. Nvidia in their wisdom (lack of) are sticking to IMR like 3DFX tried to stick to 16bit and we all know what happened to them >>


Tell that to mercury research and every other market stat firm out there, who constantly rate nVidia as the #1 video board maker, with ATi as #2.
And far down under both of them somewhere comes PowerVR/ST.

Dont get me wrong, I love competition as much as the next guy, but the zealotry of some people here is absolutely redicilous.
>>



I was being sarcastic! ;)
 

Powervr

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even if kyro is not the top seller... zealotry like this must mean something...
at least satisfyed costumers...
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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TBR (tile base rendering) saves bandwidth so with more intensive games it will not drop frames like the rest.

So does Z-occlusion culling and Hyper-Z.

8 layers multitexturing in a single pass (geforce 3 only have the capability to 4 layers and because of this, and the way geforce 3 works it introduces colors error when more than 4 layers is needed, unlike kyro 1/2.

And how many games utilise 8 layer multitexturing?

kyro 2 renders everything in 32 bits, improving older games

Just like the Radeon and the GF3 does if your desktop is set to 32 bit colour. GLQuake, Quake2 and Unreal all look great in 32 bit colour.

kyro 2 is (I don't know if she is unique in this aspect) able to force FSAA even with older games

Err, you can force FSAA in any game on the Radeon and the GF3 too.

well T&L is done by the cpu so it is still a feature that kyro 1/2 "suppports"

The CPU is slow-ass compared to a GPU.

Actually we've been through the reasons why the recent Anandtech reviews are wrong, they even contradict other Anandtech reviews.

We did go through the reasons and as I recall the Kyro fans did not win that argument.

Once again show me a review which backs up the findings in the latest Anandtech review, I'm pretty sure I asked that the last time!

Unfortunately I don't have any reviews with the newest ATi and nVidia drivers. But here's one to look at anyway.

The Kyro2 is pretty much beaten across the board by GTS and and the Radeon 64 MB DDR in the 32 bit tests. It even gets a thorough pasting in Giants by a GF2 MX. And look at the Aquanox reviews - the GTS is getting three times higher minimum scores than the Kyro2, thereby debunking the myth that the GTS somehow sturggles compared to the Kyro2 in stressful situations.

Oh, and don't bother bringing up FSAA since none of those cards are fast enough to use it with playable framerates.

Yeah that pretty much sums you up, you make comments on things you havn't even used, well it's been confirmed people, we have a complete mersey trout here and a big one too!

So you feel that most people here at Anandtech would claim that 25 FPS is completely smooth and that they don't need anything more? Or better yet, that their eyes can't see anything more?

You mean GF3 features which are so far unsupported and if they are anything like hardware t&l willn't be supported for some time to come, the problem with Nvidia is that their 6month product cycle is out of sync with the software industry as a whole.

Yeah, bad nVidia for getting products out the door really quickly. You should be like PowerVR and crawl along at a slug's pace. <rolleyes>

I have 6 games on my HD which fully support T&L and the master list probably has more than 30 games on it.

honestly BFG10K I don't expect you to understand such things with you probably still being in school and all.

That doesn't mean that existing games can't take advantage of the extra speed and features that faster nVidia cards provide. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that, being in nappies and all.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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even if kyro is not the top seller... zealotry like this must mean something...
at least satisfyed costumers...


And what makes you think that nVidia's customers aren't satisfied? Get off your high-horse and stop trying to act like you've got some sort of miracle card. You don't.
 

MANKOU

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Sep 13, 2000
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<< I want more features, more innovation! Wheres the 3DFX tech that was going to be implemented, do I have to wait until NV30? :)

I feel quite the opposite; I care little about features, I just want fast performance, espeicially with my existing games. The main reason I got my Ti500 is not for future games but to run my existing games faster and at higher detail levels.
>>



Ehm, when I pay so much money, I WANT some more than just clockspeed. Of course I'm not a FPS games fun (RTS, RPG are my favourites), but when I bought a GF3 I felt ripped off. Just more frames and some AA. I returned it and bought 5.1 speakers and DVD with the same money. I understand that Q3 and such demand speed, but Nvidia and the others should find something more to offer for taking my Euros :)
 

Stiganator

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2001
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All Right, at refresh rates of 65Hz and higher veryfew people can see a flicker in a screen(CRT) LCD is a different story. If this is correct and your equation xHz=xFPS then at 65 FPS most people won't notice a difference between that and 200 FPS. But I suppose that with lots of movement and action in a scence that number may need to rise say 10 FPS. So lets compromise on this 75 FPS. I don't think there are a whole lot of people who can see the difference between 75 FPS and 120 FPS. Maybe some of us here can, that must suck then you have to have a swank computer to play any game so you can keep the FPS at 120 and lose geometry and detail. Oh well, lets get back to specs eh?
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
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thank you BFG10k for shutting up powervr2 and his kyro nonsense. That card was not nearly all it was cracked up to be, and in fact it was quite a disappointment for most of us. Nowadays, with prices being so low you simply have to go with the gf3 ti200 or even a gf2 ti200 over a kyro 2. The prices are too low to go for the kyro2 anymore and it is not a viable solution anymore with so many players in the market.
 
Jul 1, 2000
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Just remind Powervr2 what a crappy country Portugal is, and he'll forget all about his Kyro fixation.

Portugal sucks! ;)
 

Powervr

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Jun 8, 2000
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TBR (tile base rendering) saves bandwidth so with more intensive games it will not drop frames like the rest.

So does Z-occlusion culling and Hyper-Z.

8 layers multitexturing in a single pass (geforce 3 only have the capability to 4 layers and because of this, and the way geforce 3 works it introduces colors error when more than 4 layers is needed, unlike kyro 1/2.

And how many games utilise 8 layer multitexturing?


well it's much like pixel shaders and vertex shaders who needs that with present games...

so does z-occlusion culling and hyper-z...
lol

BFG the benefits of TBR is not only for occluded things... it saves bandwidth because of that and because of TBR itself
in that forum that I mentioned before, someone mentioned that for a game like unreal 2, any kyro card might only need 1 gig bandwith for a 60 fps game. unlike IMR (radeon and geforce), IMR would need 6 gig of bandwidth...

IMR hidden surface removal are not like kyro hidden surface removal... the efficiency are not like kyro's efficiency..
but if we must choose one of this processes hyper-z would win (it is similar with TBR hidden surface removal, so efficiency of ati process is much much higher)



kyro 2 renders everything in 32 bits, improving older games

Just like the Radeon and the GF3 does if your desktop is set to 32 bit colour. GLQuake, Quake2 and Unreal all look great in 32 bit colour.


well kyro renders in 32 bit even in 16 bit mode(displaying in 16 bit ,but processing internally in 32 bit, so less color errors addded) even if the game is in 16 bit (some of the older games do not have 32 bit mode), thus improving quality of today and past games ...


kyro 2 is (I don't know if she is unique in this aspect) able to force FSAA even with older games

Err, you can force FSAA in any game on the Radeon and the GF3 too.

well T&L is done by the cpu so it is still a feature that kyro 1/2 "suppports"

The CPU is slow-ass compared to a GPU.



and what is the game that requires the fastest GPU for T&L?
well my athlon is doing fine with PRESENT GAMES


Actually we've been through the reasons why the recent Anandtech reviews are wrong, they even contradict other Anandtech reviews.

We did go through the reasons and as I recall the Kyro fans did not win that argument.

Once again show me a review which backs up the findings in the latest Anandtech review, I'm pretty sure I asked that the last time!

Unfortunately I don't have any reviews with the newest ATi and nVidia drivers. But here's one to look at anyway.


well kyro is not really a novilty... and yes it is not the fastest card around, so we have only old reviews and that anadtech review that is contraditing with an earlier anandtech review .


The Kyro2 is pretty much beaten across the board by GTS and and the Radeon 64 MB DDR in the 32 bit tests. It even gets a thorough pasting in Giants by a GF2 MX. And look at the Aquanox reviews - the GTS is getting three times higher minimum scores than the Kyro2, thereby debunking the myth that the GTS somehow sturggles compared to the Kyro2 in stressful situations.


picking straws here..
well with a regular athlon XP giants is really fine...


Oh, and don't bother bringing up FSAA since none of those cards are fast enough to use it with playable framerates.
yeah that pretty much sums you up, you make comments on things you havn't even used, well it's been confirmed people, we have a complete mersey trout here and a big one too!


are you talking about yourself?


we are talking about what excellent kyro card is... with only the specs of a regular tnt-2 !
proving that TBR is the way of the future thus kyro 3 have a place and a deserved place if you ask me on this graphic business...

if you think otherwise then explain me why...