KYRO III probably out in Q1 2002. What are its known specs?

[EMAN]

How am I being arrogant by expressing what settings I like to use?

You describe like everybody needs 150+fps arrogantly. Which people don't. Most people are satisfied with 60fps and that's the point I was trying to make. But you go on and off about your preferences. I don't care about your preferenes. Why would I care about your preference anyway?:|


Why? Because stressful, high detail areas cause any system to slow down, that's why. It's the exact issue that I've been trying to explain to you all this time yet you continue to ignore me. It's for this very reason why I advocate a sweet-spot of 120 FPS or more; at that speed even the heavy areas will stay smooth. Yet your "60 FPS is all the human eye needs" trash will yield you a slideshow in the same situation.

My 60fps will not yield to a slideshow. Nobody considers lowest fps of 25 fps a slide show. Maybe BFG10k and other anal gamers consider that a slide show but most typical gamer will not.


What exactly is that poll going to achieve? 1000 wrong answers don't make a fact. Also that poll is an opinion poll, nothing more.
It's going to achieve the typical average user setting. 1000 right answers will make a fact. Everyone's opinions turns into needs and wants for our games.

 

[merlocka]

1000 right answers will make a fact

I didn't know opinion polls had "right" answers.


Lets sum up.

If money is more important to you than 120fps, then you are a Kyridiot.
If 120fps is more important to you than the extra money, you are a Nvidiot.

As your gaming habits trend from "casual" to "my skin is pasty white and I have built a wall of mountain dew cans around my monitor" you will probably prefer the faster card over the cash you might save.

My opinion? I've got this awesome wall of cans... where is my digicam...


edit -> Nobody considers lowest fps of 25 fps a slide show

I consider 25fps mins unplayable for mutiplayer FPS games... Q3, RA3, WolfMP, CS, etc.

 

[Innoka]

No doubt you can go into a large maternity hospital on any day and one of the babies will have a lot of potential for something. That doesn't mean you put it on the chess or football team right away.
The Kyro II is efficient for having a feeble specification, but it's an economy card. Talking up the performance doesn't put the chipset in its proper perspective because the performance deficits and compatibility have already been shown. It appears the Kyro needs too many IFs to look really competitive:
IF a game doesn't use HW T&L or high polygon counts
IF a game can use S3TC
IF the playable resolution is lower rather than higher with all cards for fsaa.
IF we consider only 32 bit speed
IF you don't care about anisotropic filtering or even trilinear.
IF you are prepared to tweak settings or wait on updated driver files for new game compatibility or artefact fixes.

Oh for a card so irresistable we can't stop playing with it long enough to try to prove its worth to others.

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< so I think the PIB per capita is the most accurate of all the indicators...
>>

It is most definitely not. America has the world's highest, and we're pretty backwards in many respects.

 

[Daemon_UK]

Some (old) Kyro III news, not sure if you guys are aware??

Also, am I the only one trying to post specs?

Supposed Kyro IIU/III Specs compared to GF3

Kyro Redesign May Challenge GeForce

Kyro III vertex and pixel shader link

These aint all english, use bablefish, or perphaps someone kind enuff will translate the inportant bits!

 

[EMAN]

I didn't know opinion polls had "right" answers.

No but I was talking about majority and marjority rules. Just like majority makes this country happen.


Lets sum up.
If money is more important to you than 120fps, then you are a Kyridiot.
If 120fps is more important to you than the extra money, you are a Nvidiot.

Why do you have to be a Nvidiot or Kyridiot? Why can't you just accept that Kyro is vaiable option to game. It's just these nimrods who has to prove something because of their $300 video card. If you didn't pay that much you wouldn't be talking crap. But since you paid so much for your video card you have to talk crap out of anytime and anywhere you go. I don't see too many kyridiots or ATIdiots. You know who you are. :disgust:



I consider 25fps mins unplayable for mutiplayer FPS games... Q3, RA3, WolfMP, CS, etc.

Finish reading rest of the sentence and I already answered you.

 

[RobsTV]

<< Why do you have to be a Nvidiot or Kyridiot? Why can't you just accept that Kyro is vaiable option to game. It's just these nimrods who has to prove something because of their $300 video card. If you didn't pay that much you wouldn't be talking crap. But since you paid so much for your video card you have to talk crap out of anytime and anywhere you go. I don't see too many kyridiots or ATIdiots. You know who you are. :disgust: >>


Hello!!!!!
Why does price keep popping up? Perhaps it is because some spent too much for Kyro 2?
I paid $100 for GF3 Ti500 performance, (GF3 Ti200 BestBuy online 3 day sale, clocked at 235/530).
Sold old GF2 for $100. Net cost big fat ZERO, so thanks for saying I am NOT talking crap then.
Most buyers are in the US, and as stated many times, you can get GF3 Ti500 performance for $100 to $150, NOT $300.
And don't forget that you can perhaps resell your old video card.
Price is NOT a viable reason to get a Kyro.
Never was, unless you are in a country that makes up only a tiny portion of everyday buyers.
Todays everyday prices put Kyro II at same price as GF2 Ultra speed cards ($70 GF2 Ti200).
Even before the GF Ti series, you could always pick up a GF2 Pro for around $100,
when Kyro 2 cards cost $100, at Newegg. Kyro 2 may have been built to compete
with the GF2 MX, but nvidia squashed that plan by lowering the price of the Pro cards
to the same range as Kyro 2.

The reason why some of us post isn't because we paid too much (zero).
It is because we have seen the Kyro 2 performance lies since it was announced.
The lies never stopped.
No matter how many reviews and benchmarks confirm that the card would not do
what some said it would, the posts about how great the card is continued. At
first many compared the Kyro 2 to a GF2 Ultra KILLER. Then then dropped it down
to GF2 Pro KILLER. Then GF2 GTS killer. Just way to much hype for a card that does
nothing more than beat a $50 GF2 MX card. And barely at that.

You will see many ATI owners also complain about Kyro 2 reported performance.
You will also see many nvidia owners state how great ATI cards are.
It does not take a brain surgen. Look at reviewers benchmarks and comparisons.
Nvidia and ATI are used as the standards. Kyro does not exist. Why bring it up.
Let the Kyro die and be gone once and for all.
Or at least know you've been burned, so wait until something real is released, that holds
up to the rest of the market before you start the same sh!t about how great it will not be.

 

[EMAN]

I paid $100 for GF3 Ti500 performance, (GF3 Ti200 BestBuy online 3 day sale, clocked at 235/530).

Good for you. You got a great deal but not everybody got those geforce 3 ti200 for $100.


This is what I said. "You know who you are." Did I mention that it was you. SO you telling me something here. You feel like an Nvidiot?

Kyro 2 performs fine with a healthy processor and that's that. Why do you have the need to bash Kyro 2 because your more expensive video card is faster?

 

[randalee]

Here are a couple of links I found:

Segatech link

3Dconcept link

 

[merlocka]

Why can't you just accept that Kyro is vaiable option to game.

By using the terms Kyridiot and Nvidiot, I was establishing two fairly clear-cut "camps" of buyers. Those who choose to buy the best bargain, and those who pay more for extra performance. The two will always argue, it's a law of nature. Can you really not see that point?

No one isn't saying the Kyro isn't viable, and I'm certainly not saying it's not vaiable. It just doesn't provide the best gaming experience.

A stock Honda Civic gets people to work, but don't rev your engine next to someone in a tweaked Supra if you don't want them to laugh at you.

Finish reading rest of the sentence and I already answered you.

Well, thanks for calling me anal. I love you too.

Oh yeah, and by the way... In your very own poll over 48 percent of the replies indicate that they need over 70fps, and nearly a quarter indicate that they need over 90.

<spaceballs>I'm surrounded by anal gamers!</spaceballs>

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I would consider buying another Kyro product. I had the 3d Prophet 4500, and it was a really nice card. I replaced it with my GF3 from BB. I sold the GF3 and replaced it with my Radeon 8500 Retail board.

If the Kyro 3 turns out to be a compelling product, I'll prolly buy one of those too. The more players in the market, the lower the prices get for all of our components. Simple economics, folks.

Support Kyro.

 

[merlocka]

Support Kyro.

I agree 100%. I will probably purchase a Kyro3 as well as any S3 or Bitboys card which rolls out (unless there are some fundamental flaws with hardware / drivers). Competition is fun.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I hereby formally retract my comment about how Portugal sucks, and apologize for any psychological injury I may have caused.

I was just picking on Powervr, based on a playful back and forth the Portugese ST zealot and I once shared in a previous Kyro thread. I have received a couple of PM's from Powervr's countrymen claiming that they were insulted by the comment. I understand that feeling, given how often I am reminded by certain Euros about how the US sucks in ATOT, but that is a different matter entirely.

 

[Powervr]

man I may speak a lausy english...
but I think it's portuguese ... not portugese

 

[BFG10K]

BFG. How, exactly, is letting a game engine do what it is supposed to do a flawed test?

How can you run a fair benchmark by changing the image quality of one card but not changing the other card to the same level?

I see the point about making it a "fair" test, but cutting down benefiting technologies of one card so that others may beat it more is hardly fair.

And what technology are you "cutting down" on a Kyro2?

Trading image quality for speed is not a technology.
Lowering the image quality so the Kyro2 can compete with the faster cards is not a technology either.

Honestly, your statements are completely illogical.

If they wanted all cards totally equal, why didn't they disable T&L on all the Radeons and Geforces?

No, that's completely different. T&L is a technology of the card which increases speed and sometimes image quality. Degrading image quality in exchange for speed (ie Kyro2 + Serious Sam) is not a technology.

You describe like everybody needs 150+fps arrogantly.

I most certainly did not. You on the other hand were trying to tell me that everyone only needs 25 FPS and started prattling on about how the human eye can only see 25 FPS. If you can't see a difference between 25 FPS and 120 FPS fine - just don't tell me that I can't and don't make up crap about the human eye to try to justify your preferences.

Most people are satisfied with 60fps and that's the point I was trying to make.

And why would I care what most people do? It's my money to spend on the cards I want so I can play at the speeds I want.

I can easily see the difference between 60 FPS and 120 FPS so don't tell me that I can't because of some "human eye" or "most people" crap.

It's going to achieve the typical average user setting.

Which means what exactly?

1000 right answers will make a fact. Everyone's opinions turns into needs and wants for our games.

Err, no. Whether or not everyone votes for 25 FPS or 120 FPS in that poll makes no difference to the fact that the statement "the human eye can only see 25 FPS" is bullsh*t. The only thing the poll will tell us is how many people know that this statement is utter crap and hence agree with me.

Also the poll makes no difference to the fact that I can easily see the difference between 60 FPS and 120 FPS and that I demand high framerates in all my games at all time.

No but I was talking about majority and marjority rules. Just like majority makes this country happen

That is one of the biggest strawmans I have ever seen. If the majority of the world's population are female, does that make the statement "we are all female" true? Of course it doesn't.

It's just these nimrods who has to prove something because of their $300 video card

You're the nimrod in that you're trying to somehow say that buying a high-end card is dumb because the human eye can't see more than 25 FPS. Just because your card isn't fast it doesn't mean that you need to justfiy your purchase by making false blanket statements about everyone else.

 

[Powervr]

what?

" so I think the PIB per capita is the most accurate of all the indicators...
It is most definitely not. America has the world's highest, and we're pretty backwards in many respects. "

America PIB per capita is not the world's highest...
if we are talking about PIB you may be right...

PIB per capita is:
PIB/number of habitants


danmark, french, germany, japan, island, finland, sweden and many more... have better PIB per capita than america

 

[BFG10K]

Oh and EMAN, it looks like a large number of the people in the polls disagree with you. Almost half said they need more than 70 FPS and almost a quarter need more than 90 FPS. So unless they're all "anal nVidiots" they must know something you don't.

Also I find it rather interesting that a lot of the more intelligent replies in that poll essentially say the same thing that I've been saying about why 3D games need high framerates.

 

[Cratchet]

The Kyro 2 at $60 to $80 was a great replacement for my burned out Geforce2MX. Both provided 80 fps at 800x600 in Quake3 on a 700 MHz Duron.

Since I borrowed the Kyro 2 from work I would like to replace it. Im guessing the fps would drop to 40 or so at 1024 x 768, playable but not quite something to brag about. 20, 30, even 40 fps is not what we want to spend our money on.

I will wait for a geForce3 Ti200 to cost $100 or a Kyro 3 at similar price when it arrives depending on the actual specs. Meanwhile, an $80 1 Gig Athlon gets priority over any video card more than $100.

 

[EMAN]

I most certainly did not. You on the other hand were trying to tell me that everyone only needs 25 FPS and started prattling on about how the human eye can only see 25 FPS. If you can't see a difference between 25 FPS and 120 FPS fine - just don't tell me that I can't and don't make up crap about the human eye to try to justify your preferences.

You certainly did. You want to see?

EMAN
BFG, you have a 17 inch monitor and Geforce 3 ti500. Why not use Anisotropic Filtering? AA is only good for racing games anyway. Doesn't your monitor max at 1280x1024 60htz? I think you have enough juice to max out your resolution and max out your Anisotropic Filtering.

EMAN
Okay how many FPS do you need? You don't use Aniso. filter and play at that 1152x864. Damn you should be getting like 150fps. That my friend is overkill.

BFG
You're wrong - it makes a large difference. I would not be able to run my heaviest games at 1152 x 864 x 32 if I had anything slower than a Ti500.

EMAN
BFG, your only describing your preference. Most people on this board don't need 150fps and are happy with 60fps. I get over 80fps in that resolution. Does that mean I need to upgrade? My games run smooth and that's what matters. Does it affect my gameplay? Not. I still will whoop your ass in Unreal T. since I don't play quake 3. You always describe your preference but that fact of the matter is that your preference is completely off with a typical gamer. It doesn't make a large difference but a tiny one. It makes it little bit smoother.

BFG
No it isn't. Do you think (for example) that there's a difference betwen 135 FPS and 120 FPS in Quake3? Well there is. Try playing the Dredwerktz map and go to the outside area with all of the bots set to nightmare difficulty and all firing a wide range of guns. That outside area will either slow down to framerates in the high 30s or the low 50s depending on whether you get 135 FPS or 120 FPS in the timedemo of demo four.

Now go to the other side of the area and try to rail someone standing on the ledge. Without ultra high framerates it's impossible to do this so your ability to play the game is severely crippled. All because somebody made the blanket statement that there's no difference between 120 FPS and 135 FPS.

There is no magic number which is the pinnacle of performance so any such blanket statements you make are false. Don't under-estimate the defintion of playable and don't over-estimate your system's abilities.

EMAN
I never said there wasn't a difference between higher fps. But your just being anal if you ask me.


How did I say I only need 25fps? Long as it doesn't dip below that number it is adequate to play. I can see fine upto 50-70fps.


Oh and EMAN, it looks like a large number of the people in the polls disagree with you. Almost half said they need more than 70 FPS and almost a quarter need more than 90 FPS. So unless they're all "anal nVidiots" they must know something you don't.

Damn how dumb can you get? Majority voted for my number and that was the point I was making.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

It is Portuguese... And your English is lousy...

 

[vedin]

BFG.
There are two particular optimisations in SS that should be enabled when using a Kyro video card. They don't make any difference at all with any other card, but they do make a small-5-10% performance difference with the Kyro. It ain't much, but it's still something that should be there. As far as I know, those particular settings are, by default, disabled in the...::Wow, suddenly can't remember the names of things, okay fine...will use a lot of words to describe something that should only be a couple::, ini file that determines what each setting should be for each card. I don't know that Anandtech didn't enable them, but just guessing, I'd say they didn't. And no, they don't affect quality at all. I don't really feel like hunting what those settings are right now, but if I must I can. ::Really hates delving into .ini files::

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< what?

" so I think the PIB per capita is the most accurate of all the indicators...
It is most definitely not. America has the world's highest, and we're pretty backwards in many respects. "

America PIB per capita is not the world's highest...
if we are talking about PIB you may be right...

PIB per capita is:
PIB/number of habitants


danmark, french, germany, japan, island, finland, sweden and many more... have better PIB per capita than america >>

Show me the numbers.

 

[Powervr]

I guess I was not 100% accurate
http://www1.oecd.org/std/gdpperca.htm

they are not fixed....because of variantions on exchange rates...

but there are a few that have better numbers than USA...

 

[Powervr]

saw this here:
www.pvr-net.com

"I posted some pics of Giants, which I managed to snag out of a bargain bin for 9 bucks. We all know the game runs pretty good on the KYRO although you need to download the latest patch from Interplay to enable DOT3 bumpmapping. Also ensure you enable to the profile of the game in the KYRO driver optimization profile editor as W-Buffering should be enabled for the game"

latest drivers have w-buffering on by default ...
this will not drop quality...
BFG, your review that said that even mx win against kyro 2 might have a serious flaw...

 

[BFG10K]

How did I say I only need 25fps?

ROTFL. Right here, in your very next sentence:

Long as it doesn't dip below that number it is adequate to play.

I'm sorry but 25 FPS is a slideshow regardless of whether it's a maximum, average or minimum.

Damn how dumb can you get? Majority voted for my number and that was the point I was making.

That doesn't make your statement that you can't see more than 70 FPS correct.

There are two particular optimisations in SS that should be enabled when using a Kyro video card.

Probably forced texture compression and disabled trilinear and anisotropic filtering.

They don't make any difference at all with any other card, but they do make a small-5-10% performance difference with the Kyro. It ain't much, but it's still something that should be there.

Whatever they are they make a much bigger difference than that. Anand's first review was what sparked the statement "the Kyro2 is a GF2 Ultra killer" because it was beating the GF2 Ultra in Serious Sam. In reality it wasn't even rendering the same level of detail and complexity that the Ultra was because Serious Sam assigned medium detail settings to the Kyro2.

Once Anand (and everyone else) forced the same high quality settings on all cards the Kyro2 came crashing down to earth, exactly where it should be. Both the Radeon 64 MB DDR and the GF2 Pro give it a thorough pasting in Serious Sam.