KYRO III probably out in Q1 2002. What are its known specs?

[Powervr]

Just remind Powervr2 what a crappy country Portugal is, and he'll forget all about his Kyro fixation.

Portugal sucks!

jellous...


I will be very happy when you face portugal in coreia... it's the biggest sport event in the world..
and you will be ashamed...(USA sucks at the most important sport, and thus will suck in the most important sport event in the world)

I still prefer to live in portugal than in the US :
there is low crime...
almoust no unemployment
no terrorist attacks... LOL
yes we have low wages but that tend to improve now that we have EURO coin now... portugal will be more competitive because of this, and will improve.
and yes we have some of the lowest prices with alimentation, so the low wages issue is not that bad...

not forgeting that we have a real history...
we are a proof that even a tiny country can be a superpower... XVI century...

advocate I prefer not to repeat myself over this...(last year conversation)
I didn't came here saying that USA sucks (it sucks for me if you ask me).
(very low security, you can end up in the streets with the american way of life very easily)

 

[Powervr]

did I said that portugal is a great country to live ?

 

[Innoka]

Well now I'm quite confused about Kyro FSAA because I see that it can be efficiently applied at the lowest resolution but the digitlife review doesn't show advantage at 800x600. The later the review the worse it is looking.
"in games with Hardware TCL support or with too complex graphics the KYRO II card is easily beaten by the competitors" seems to sum up all I've read on the Kyro II.

 

[Powervr]

what was the test cpu?

kyro is still improving with every cpu upgrade we kyro owners make...

you still not get it...
I am not saying that kyro 2 is the best card around. I am saying that this architectury is the way of the future..

no need for fancy memory types ...
and thus kyro 3 will be competitive even if it cames with a lower spec...

in paper kyro shouldn't better than tnt-2...
well it's!
it's even better than radeon ddr and geforce 2 gts. depending on the game it can be better than geforce 2 pro.

 

[Compellor]

<< we are talking about what excellent kyro card is... with only the specs of a regular tnt-2 ! proving that TBR is the way of the future thus kyro 3 have a place and a deserved place if you ask me on this graphic business... >>



It may have a place in the way of 3Dfx (R.I.P.). Maybe ATi will buy them out and use their awesome TBR technology in their next line of Radeon cards! Woo hoo! I'm only joking, of course.

 

[rogue1979]

C'mom Powervr, give us a break. Kyro II can be better than a Geforce 2 Pro???? My secondary machine has a Gainward Geforce Pro at 242/467, I would like to see any bench comparison or game framerates that a Kyro II can compete in. It may be plenty fast for the games you like to play, but try to stay realistic. I really love my Gainward Geforce 2 Ti 500 at 285/523 and it is fast, but i don't have any fantasies that it is faster than a Radeon 8500 or a Geforce 3 running 240/540.

 

[MANKOU]

<< Just remind Powervr2 what a crappy country Portugal is, and he'll forget all about his Kyro fixation.

Portugal sucks! >>




I'm not from Portugal, but it happens to know that when the Portuguese were travelling across the oceans, your precious country didn't exist. You are at least stupid

 

[wepopfresh]

Kyro III? Didn't they learn their lessons the first two times? How long will it take that card to end up in the 49$ bargain bin?

 

[EMAN]

And you're describing your preference which is fine, but don't tell me what I need and don't make false blanket statements about what the human eye can't see just to justify your preferences. If you're happy with your setup, fine. But don't tell me what I'm happy with and what I can and can't see.

I am not describing my preference. I am describing a typical gamer preferences. Your settings are outrageous for a typical user. Your just being arrogant and trolling if you ask me. I don't run around message boards telling people I need 150+fps.


Are you tyring to be funny or are you just trolling?

I'm not trolling but telling you honest truth. Why is it a game that runs average fps of 150+ isn't even smooth in that map you were talking about. Since you think Nvidia is so great I thought you should mention that to him too.


That's not my rule of thumb because those numbers are far too low. If you can't see a difference, fine. But don't tell me that I can't because of some rubbish you've read about the human eye.

for you!

 

[RobsTV]

Still going?
O.K., since many kyro junkies seem to dislike Anands review, and like Tom's:
Latest comparison from Tom's showing Kyro2 getting beat by all expect GF2 MX (12-18-01)
(GF2 is 50% to $100% faster in games like Max Payne, Giants and Q3)
Tom's rarely includes Kyro II in benchmark comparisons any longer, but you Kyro 2 fans
can get lucky maybe one last time, and see the card get whooped by the lowly GF2.
How much pain can you guys put up with? Geez, move on allready.

And a Kryo III at $200 someday?
Why spend that when you can get a proven nvidia card
that will run at GF3 Ti500 speeds for $100 to $150 today?

 

[Powervr]

"Latest comparison from Tom's showing Kyro2 getting beat by all expect GF2 MX (12-18-01)"

yah..
and that should not be happenning at all, kyro 2 have the same spec as tnt-2 ....


but you are forgeting something very important..
if those numbers are right, kyro is doing much better than it shows...

there is something that average fps do no show (minimum fps)
kyro might be getting even better in those.. (TBR aproach)

I think that average benchmarking is great for comparing IMR but that doesn't apply to TBR cards...

well if unreal tournament were used for benching those card, you will see kyro 2 getting geforce 2 ultra performance..
even in Average benchmarking... unreal tournament is a bad case scenario for IMR cards, (bandwidth poblems) and kyro is happy there...

one thing that might be important ....kyro 2 has no T&L engine... (no problem here for kyro 3)
so you might be testing in some of those games not the kyro card but the cpu used in the test...

again I am not trying saying here that kyro 2 is the best card in the world (she is showing some age now), but kyro 2 tell to us that TBR is more future proof than brute force aproach (IMR)...

more margins ($$$) to video card manufacturers.... (no need for expensive memory)

 

[Powervr]

thank MANKOU...
many americans think that before america...
it was pre-historic time...

 

[nemesismk2]

<< Still going?
O.K., since many kyro junkies seem to dislike Anands review, and like Tom's:
Latest comparison from Tom's showing Kyro2 getting beat by all expect GF2 MX (12-18-01)
(GF2 is 50% to $100% faster in games like Max Payne, Giants and Q3)
Tom's rarely includes Kyro II in benchmark comparisons any longer, but you Kyro 2 fans
can get lucky maybe one last time, and see the card get whooped by the lowly GF2.
How much pain can you guys put up with? Geez, move on allready.

And a Kryo III at $200 someday?
Why spend that when you can get a proven nvidia card
that will run at GF3 Ti500 speeds for $100 to $150 today? >>



The Kyro 2 was released as competition for the Geforce2 MX, it just turned out that TBR was so efficent that sometimes the Kyro 2 would give better performance than much more expensive video cards. I bought my Kyro 2 for £75 when I upgraded from a Geforce2 MX, I could of purchased a Geforce2 GTS or Pro but at the time they would of cost me over twice as much as my Kyro 2. The Geforce3 Ti200 would cost me almost 3 times what I paid for my Kyro 2, we willn't even mention the GF3 Ti500, anyway in the UK the Radeon 8500 is almost the same price as a GF3 Ti200 and the R8500 is alot better so I know which I'd prefer.

Here is why the Kyro 2 is selling so well in the UK, for the cost of a 64MB Kyro 2 (£63) you can have the following:-

64MB Geforce2 MX200 (£49)
64MB Geforce2 MX400 (£66)

And that's it, no GF2 GTS, PRO or anything with DDR memory, the Kyro 2 is dominating the UK budget video card market . Anyone with any business knowledge will tell you that being a little fish (Kyro 2) in an over crowded pond (US market) doesn't make good business sense especially when that country is in a recession. I'm pretty sure if PowerVR get their act together and do things right the Kyro 3 could be a huge money maker for them especially in Europe, they should concentrate on dominating the UK and European markets first (the introduction of the single currency in Europe will create a very stable profitable market), followed by Asia and then finally the US market when hopefully they will be out of recession. The reason I say UK and European markets first is because Nvidia products are very overpriced here compared to the US selling price and that gives PowerVR a big advantage if they can release the Kyro 3 for the right price.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I acknowledge that Portugal, at one time, did not suck. My contention is that Portugal sucks, in the present tense.

Live in the now!

 

[MANKOU]

<< I acknowledge that Portugal, at one time, did not suck. My contention is that Portugal sucks, in the present tense.

Live in the now! >>


I believe that your thoughts suck in the present tense too. No matter what US (which I admire for some reasons and hate for others) refuse to admit, Portugal and 14 other countries (more to come soon) are part of the European Union (or, in the words of a European -French I think- who had proposed the making of the EEC some decades ago, United States of Europe). Portugal sucks (wrong word, but I want to set an example that you could understand) as much as eg Oclahoma, but it's getting nearer to the rest european countries all the time.
You live in the now, Europe lives in the now and in the future!

 

[Daovonnaex]

<<

<< I acknowledge that Portugal, at one time, did not suck. My contention is that Portugal sucks, in the present tense.

Live in the now! >>


I believe that your thoughts suck in the present tense too. No matter what US (which I admire for some reasons and hate for others) refuse to admit, Portugal and 14 other countries (more to come soon) are part of the European Union (or, in the words of a European -French I think- who had proposed the making of the EEC some decades ago, United States of Europe). Portugal sucks (wrong word, but I want to set an example that you could understand) as much as eg Oclahoma, but it's getting nearer to the rest european countries all the time.
You live in the now, Europe lives in the now and in the future! >>

Portugal is the least advanced of the western European states, and is even overshadowed by the Czech republic. As for Europe, I'll agree with you on infrastructure, but not on economic and military policy.

 

[Killrose]

Whoa!!, we need to keep this discussion on track here. Time to stop the country bashing before it starts into a personnal flame war..oops, it's already gotten out of hand in that respect too.

powervr, you are one fanatical Kyromaniac!! I'm glad you are happy with the KyroII. I guess you must have gotten a one-of-a-kind- hybrid-accidentally- released- and-shoulda-never-gotten-into-the-general-public-experimental-card, Because it defies all known tested benches for the KyroII.

In fact, I beleive you must have a Kyro3!! and it is awesome!!

 

[ndee]

It's sad...... the Anandtech Forums starting to be a play-hood for children....

powervr, don't you have anything better to do in your life than defend the Kyro cards in this forum? And guys, Nvidia isn't your mommy, it's only a company.

Sigh.

 

[merlocka]

no terrorist attacks... LOL

That's not very funny.

 

[BFG10K]

Why is it that whenever we have a Kyro2 discussion it always ends up as a country flame-war? Come on guys, let's keep to the subject and stop the personal attacks.

IMR hidden surface removal are not like kyro hidden surface removal... the efficiency are not like kyro's efficiency..

I'm well aware of this fact. What I'm saying is that ATi and nVidia both recognise the need for some form of HSR.

but if we must choose one of this processes hyper-z would win (it is similar with TBR hidden surface removal, so efficiency of ati process is much much higher)

Perhaps but nVidia's cross-bar controller will definitely swing it to their advantage.

well it's much like pixel shaders and vertex shaders who needs that with present games...

Well OK but we can still use the raw power to speed up all games plus we can crank up the detail levels to make the image quality higher.

well kyro renders in 32 bit even in 16 bit mode(displaying in 16 bit ,but processing internally in 32 bit, so less color errors addded) even if the game is in 16 bit (some of the older games do not have 32 bit mode), thus improving quality of today and past games

If your desktop is set to 32 bit colour the Radeon and GeForce will both render any game that doesn't specifically set the colour depth with a full 32 bit pipeline, regardless of how how old the game is.

and yes it is not the fastest card around, so we have only old reviews and that anadtech review that is contraditing with an earlier anandtech review

That's because the older reviews were flawed, especially in the case of Serious Sam, where it auto-detected the cards and applied custom detail levels.

picking straws here..well with a regular athlon XP giants is really fine...

That's not a valid answer; you're deliberately avoiding the issues at hand. The fact is that the GTS's minimum scores are absolutely stomping the Kyro2 and that the MX is demolishing the Kyro2 at any resolution in Giants. This disproves both of your claims that:

(1) The Kyro2 handles minimum framerates better than other cards because of TBR.
(2) A lack of T&L does not cripple the Kyro2.

are you talking about yourself?

No, I was quoting someone. Please learn to read.

we are talking about what excellent kyro card is... with only the specs of a regular tnt-2

The specs mean nothing - it's the actual performance that matters.

 

[BFG10K]

am not describing my preference. I am describing a typical gamer preferences. Your settings are outrageous for a typical user. Your just being arrogant and trolling if you ask me. I don't run around message boards telling people I need 150+fps

How am I being arrogant by expressing what settings I like to use?
Why am I arrogant if I like higher settings than everyone else?

I don't tell you what you need yet you're trying do exactly that to me. In my book that makes you arrogant, not me.

I'm not trolling but telling you honest truth. Why is it a game that runs average fps of 150+ isn't even smooth in that map you were talking about. Since you think Nvidia is so great I thought you should mention that to him too.

Why? Because stressful, high detail areas cause any system to slow down, that's why. It's the exact issue that I've been trying to explain to you all this time yet you continue to ignore me. It's for this very reason why I advocate a sweet-spot of 120 FPS or more; at that speed even the heavy areas will stay smooth. Yet your "60 FPS is all the human eye needs" trash will yield you a slideshow in the same situation.

for you!

What exactly is that poll going to achieve? 1000 wrong answers don't make a fact. Also that poll is an opinion poll, nothing more.

 

[Powervr]

bfg:
I already said that if there is enough processor power kyro will be better at minimmum FPS
I guess for giants there is not enough processing power for kyro with a regular athlon...

as for czech republic...
try to find out the PIB per capita for the two countries and take conclusions

 

[Powervr]

well for some indicators portugal is even worst than mold&aacute;via (education)
but they are jumping here ...
moldavian doctors, ukranians engineers etc...
what they are doing here?

doing what most portuguese don't like to do:
man power for civil construction (a hard and dangerous job )
low wages but I think they get 40X what they earn in those places...

so I think the PIB per capita is the most accurate of all the indicators...

 

[Burnsy]

Kyro III possibly?

http://www.gg8.com/news.php?id=662

[UPDATE]: More possible kyroIII news

 

[vedin]

PowerVR. Dude, I've seen a Kyro 2 in action. It's just like any other card in the minimum fps respect. You get 60 average, you get around 30 min, and around 120 high. Crimeny, that's the same as what my voodoo4 does now. It's min frames I don't see as being any higher than anything else's. Unless Nvidia's and ATI's cards are somehow worse than my Voodoo4 about min frame rates, and I very much doubt they are. It's a good card. I respect the companies making it. I highly respect the technology invovled. However, you have to realize that in most places other than Europe, you can either have a Kyro 2 for about 75 bucks, or a GF2 Ti200, which is a LOT faster for about 20 more. Americans don't see 20 bucks as much more than a meal and a movie ticket, so most of the time we'll go ahead and get the faster one. Is the Kyro a good card? Yes. Is it sufficient for all of today's games? I think so. Is it better than a GF2 Pro? Nope. Can it compare at all with any GF3? Nu uh. Will the Kyro 3? Probably, but they might screw it up. Ya never know.

BFG. How, exactly, is letting a game engine do what it is supposed to do a flawed test? I see the point about making it a "fair" test, but cutting down benefiting technologies of one card so that others may beat it more is hardly fair. If they wanted all cards totally equal, why didn't they disable T&L on all the Radeons and Geforces? It doesn't make sense. I do, however, see the point in making sure that the detail settings for all cards were set equally. I can play SS on my Voodoo4 on "High Quality" and on my bro's Kyro 2 all day, and the Kyro's "High Quality" settings are MUCH HighER than mine.