Judge: Conceal carry is NOT a right.

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slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

BF never said that, at least according to historians.

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" is the correct quote.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." is also quoted on a plaque in the Statue of Liberty, albeit incorrectly.
 

nboy22

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2002
3,304
1
81
There is no need to carry any gun, and soon it will be illegal to open carry here too.

yeahhhh... try telling that one to the woman who got beheaded in public recently.

If she would've been carrying a gun, that piece of trash dude that killed her would've been dead. (I do realize this happened in a different country)

It's all about self defense. The more the population grows, the more crazy people there will be. Sure, the chances of something like that happening are slim, but you can't deny if you were carrying a gun you would easily end the threat to your life.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
I will be writing my legislator and state senator asking them to vote yes. I will also be writing to other legislators and pretending to be in their district and ask them to vote yes too.

Would you like it if the NRA got their members from all over the country to write to all the legislators in California about this? Simple yes or no question.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Would you like it if the NRA got their members from all over the country to write to all the legislators in California about this? Simple yes or no question.

Hey, that's not fair. It's OK for him and others like him to do such things, but NOT ok for people of the opposing view to do the same!
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
BF never said that, at least according to historians.

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" is the correct quote.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." is also quoted on a plaque in the Statue of Liberty, albeit incorrectly.

Semantics/"pedantics" aside, it's a great quotation.
 

amddude

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2006
1,711
1
81
Unfortunate, but there is a tsunami of pro gun legislation and court rulings on the way.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
BF never said that, at least according to historians.

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" is the correct quote.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." is also quoted on a plaque in the Statue of Liberty, albeit incorrectly.

Technically, that is the first time he sort of claimed those words.
He used it, as a quote himself, earlier in his life.

Source

I just performed a little research into this myself, as dammit, I refused to carry on being wrong if I was indeed wrong. And I refused to believe after all the research I've done on the man throughout my entire life, that I could have in fact been led wrong in the first place. He is family, after all: a bloodline uncle. And I've both consciously and unconsciously followed many of his beliefs - not all, but a good portion I have agreed with. Sometimes I landed at similar conclusions on certain topics without realizing it, and appropriately did so apparently at similar ages. Other times I've treated his ways as a role model, and also have set a personal goal of history favoring me over him. His success in life was later, and that still gives me time to beat him at his own game. And by game, I mean the efforts he took to always try and make things better down the road. He largely kept himself focused on the future, i.e. doing what it took now to make things better later. It was rare thought then and rare today.

But yeah, I knew the variation you mentioned. But I actually hadn't known it was sort-of claimed by him. I had known the original quote was used by him at one point, in quotes. Hadn't known the details of the situations, but the one in my signature was directly written by Franklin. The one you mentioned was a motto on a book published by Franklin, but he was not the author of the book. According to wikiquotes, he did claim some excerpts in the book. But the link to the source stating that is dead.. so, not sure.
His earliest variation is similar yet entirely unique:
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Also, just stumbled upon this one.

Uncle Ben said:
I have read your Manuscript with some Attention. By the Arguments it contains against the Doctrine of a particular Providence, tho’ you allow a general Providence, you strike at the Foundation of all Religion: For without the Belief of a Providence that takes Cognizance of, guards and guides and may favour particular Persons, there is no Motive to Worship a Deity, to fear its Displeasure, or to pray for its Protection. I will not enter into any Discussion of your Principles, tho’ you seem to desire it; At present I shall only give you my Opinion that tho’ your Reasonings are subtle, and may prevail with some Readers, you will not succeed so as to change the general Sentiments of Mankind on that Subject, and the Consequence of printing this Piece will be a great deal of Odium drawn upon your self, Mischief to you and no Benefit to others. He that spits against the Wind, spits in his own Face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any Good would be done by it? You yourself may find it easy to live a virtuous Life without the Assistance afforded by Religion; you having a clear Perception of the Advantages of Virtue and the Disadvantages of Vice, and possessing a Strength of Resolution sufficient to enable you to resist common Temptations. But think how great a Proportion of Mankind consists of weak and ignorant Men and Women, and of inexperienc’d and inconsiderate Youth of both Sexes, who have need of the Motives of Religion to restrain them from Vice, to support their Virtue, and retain them in the Practice of it till it becomes habitual, which is the great Point for its Security; And perhaps you are indebted to her originally that is to your Religious Education, for the Habits of Virtue upon which you now justly value yourself. You might easily display your excellent Talents of reasoning on a less hazardous Subject, and thereby obtain Rank with our most distinguish’d Authors. For among us, it is not necessary, as among the Hottentots that a Youth to be receiv’d into the Company of Men, should prove his Manhood by beating his Mother. I would advise you therefore not to attempt unchaining the Tyger, but to burn this Piece before it is seen by any other Person, whereby you will save yourself a great deal of Mortification from the Enemies it may raise against you, and perhaps a good deal of Regret and Repentance. If Men are so wicked as we now see them with Religion what would they be if without it?
dammit he's completely right. But most quotes on the topic of faith and religion are completely in line with mine, he was spiritual but actually quite anti-dogma and sort of anti-religion. But it seems he saw it as a necessary evil of sorts. I've argued something similar but I still find it right to put a lot of words out there against it. It seems he may have censored an author, though the manuscript could have been possibly printed by someone else, and Ben may have even printed it against his initial distaste for the material.

And dammit! I just wasted a ton of time on an epic derail. :biggrin:
/derail
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
Unfortunate, but there is a tsunami of pro gun legislation and court rulings on the way.

Yep. The head of the CalGuns Foundation says he's 100% sure that everyone in CA will be able to get a CCW permit by the end of 2013 at the latest.

The pro-gun side is winning because they're right, and there's nothing idiots like the OP can do to stop them :thumbsup:
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Sweet.

So now those who want to get licensed can't and those who are going to break the law anyways are going to carry guns....because they are criminals and don't care about gun regulation.

Sad.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
24
76
I will be writing my legislator and state senator asking them to vote yes. I will also be writing to other legislators and pretending to be in their district and ask them to vote yes too.

Saved for epic douchebaggery.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

Usually attributed to Benjamin Franklin, but author unknown.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
878
126
I will be writing my legislator and state senator asking them to vote yes. I will also be writing to other legislators and pretending to be in their district and ask them to vote yes too.

I love folks who circumvent the democratic process to force their agenda down the throats of others.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
I love folks who circumvent the democratic process to force their agenda down the throats of others.

The problem is when gun nuts carry a gun MY safety is in danger. When everyone is banned from having a gun, no one safety is in danger. My right to be safe is paramount.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
The problem is when gun nuts carry a gun MY safety is in danger. When everyone is banned from having a gun, no one safety is in danger. My right to be safe is paramount.

Douchebaggery aside, it's amazing that you've managed to be wrong on every count at the same time. You are talent.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Judge is right...however, concealed carry came to be out of a need. Carrying a gun openingly causes a lot of commotion.

Hell, legally carrying a concealed weapon and having someone else find out usually has you a bit alienated.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
The problem is when gun nuts carry a gun MY safety is in danger. When everyone is banned from having a gun, no one safety is in danger. My right to be safe is paramount.

Tell me, how is your safety in danger when a law-abiding citizen carries a gun? Is the gun, gasp, scary :eek:
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
The problem is when gun nuts carry a gun MY safety is in danger. When everyone is banned from having a gun, no one safety is in danger. My right to be safe is paramount.

Wrong. You are in far more danger from an armed criminal, and the criminals would love to see everyone else disarmed, because they will remain armed. Again, you lack basic logic.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
the problem is when gun nuts carry a gun my safety is in danger. When everyone is banned from having a gun, no one safety is in danger. My right to be safe is paramount.

epic fail.

England -> no guns -> higher violent crime rates