Jon Stewart on guns and public safety...

[ch33zw1z]

Im guessing the post you imagine gave me some improved way to support the use of silencers as a way to ward off an invasion of California by out of staters coming to attack with their superior suppressed rifles, a claim I have never made came from post 9 of this thread:

Gun owners as entertainment

When will the "American Gun owner community" do something about these out of control thugs terrorizing our streets? or something. I'm just kidding. Just keep this shit in your state so we can mock from afar For those who like to err on the side of the shooter The man’s attorney, Robert...

forums.anandtech.com

The date on that post was Jan 31 2022 the winter of 2022. Nine months later I posted my views on silencers and nowhere in that was there anything about any worry about silencers and invasion. Post 99 here:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...eat-at-all-times.2607683/page-4#post-40871925

I wasn't even interested in the AR platform in Jan 22 until threads like that one peeked my interest in what the deal was about them and I started to study the issue.

So in January of 22 I would not have even know that silencers were banned in California or had any opinion on why it was a bad idea. I doubt I even notices @tweaker2's position. In that same thread I posted about how having rights like gun ownership are conditioned by responsibilities.

So the idea that that post in January was supposed to have given me a better way to support the use of silencers in you creating a lie. Please post where I expressed any opinion before Jan 22 that stakes out ANY position on silencers. I can't find such a post and you won't either. You made that up.

nope, it was in the fall. Maybe, just maybe I’ll care enough to look for it.

 

[fskimospy]

Basically he is basically dismissing all those deaths as irrelevant. Which is admitting they give zero shits about THAT gun violence.

Then minimizing what's left with the stats of other diseases. Basically saying - THIS IS ACCEPTABLE. Basically they are accepting the mass shootings, the domestic violence the school shootings and many murders. Which is basically how I think many gun nuts actually feel. Their thoughts and prayers are nothing but performative nonsense. Deep down all the gun violence is totally ok with them, it's just acceptable collateral damage.

Also this takes absolutely NO injuries from gun violence into account. And that is a BIG NUMBER. Getting shot and recovering does not mean everything is back to normal. These people are victims too, suffering from mental or physical trauma for the rest of their lives - or both.

Gun nutters are trashy people. Evil.

I think it is mostly motivated reasoning to find ways not to accept the obvious but I do agree that people who attempt to discount gun deaths from suicide or crime are odious people.

One of my best friends growing up killed himself with a gun in my 20’s. I strongly suspect he would still be here today if we had sane gun laws but apparently he didn’t count.

 

[MrSquished]

I think it is mostly motivated reasoning to find ways not to accept the obvious but I do agree that people who attempt to discount gun deaths from suicide or crime are odious people.

One of my best friends growing up killed himself with a gun in my 20’s. I strongly suspect he would still be here today if we had sane gun laws but apparently he didn’t count.

If I didn't live in New Jersey I would have offed myself with a gun. I've had some really bad depression that went untreated for a while and if I could have just walked to a store and bought a gun like candy like in the south, really good chance I wouldn't be here anymore.

 

[fskimospy]

If I didn't live in New Jersey I would have offed myself with a gun. I've had some really bad depression that went untreated for a while and if I could have just walked to a store and bought a gun like candy like in the south, really good chance I wouldn't be here anymore.

Yes. My friend walked in to a gun store, bought a gun on his credit card, walked out with it, and shot himself in the chest with it a few hours later.

If there had even been a waiting period he would probably still be alive today. I guess I should have cured his mental illness instead.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think it is mostly motivated reasoning to find ways not to accept the obvious but I do agree that people who attempt to discount gun deaths from suicide or crime are odious people.

One of my best friends growing up killed himself with a gun in my 20’s. I strongly suspect he would still be here today if we had sane gun laws but apparently he didn’t count.

What sane gun laws would have saved him? What killed him was living in a culture that hates the mentally ill because they do not want to see their own by reflection forcing suffering people

 

[Amused]

Yes. My friend walked in to a gun store, bought a gun on his credit card, walked out with it, and shot himself in the chest with it a few hours later.

If there had even been a waiting period he would probably still be alive today. I guess I should have cured his mental illness instead.

This is an honest question, not a JAQoff. Would limiting guns actually reduce the suicide rate? I think that may be the logic behind some arguments to not include suicide in the number of deaths used to argue for more restrictions.

Is there data to support this? Any correlation/causation study that is independently duplicated?

Reminder: I support 100% loophole free background checks, licensing and registration.

 

[Moonbeam]

nope, it was in the fall. Maybe, just maybe I’ll care enough to look for it.

What was in the fall, the PPE thingi or me expressing my terror of invading silencers?

 

[Oyeve]

OMFG, as much as I hate Apple I may have to subscribe to Apple TV just to see Stewarts show. This guy is so brilliant and I love his way. I wish he would run for president as I would be first on line to vote for him.

 

[fskimospy]

This is an honest question, not a JAQoff. Would limiting guns actually reduce the suicide rate? I think that may be the logic behind some arguments to not include suicide in the number of deaths used to argue for more restrictions.

Is there data to support this? Any correlation/causation study that is independently duplicated?

Reminder: I support 100% loophole free background checks, licensing and registration.

Yes, most suicide attempts come from a unique moment of despair and if you can just sleep it off or whatever will not attempt suicide the next day. This is why suicide prevention organizations strongly support waiting periods.

Firearms and suicide prevention

Over half of all suicide deaths in the U.S. occur with a firearm. Yet we know there are measures that can reduce the risk of suicide for someone in crisis. From offering suicide prevention education for retailers, range owners and firearms owners to encouraging safe storage, there are actions we...

afsp.org

 

[ch33zw1z]

What was in the fall, the PPE thingi or me expressing my terror of invading silencers?

Both.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes. My friend walked in to a gun store, bought a gun on his credit card, walked out with it, and shot himself in the chest with it a few hours later.

If there had even been a waiting period he would probably still be alive today. I guess I should have cured his mental illness instead.

I have no problem with a 10 day waiting period. It is an annoyance for me because it's a waste of gas and my time, I'm already set up if I decide to kill myself, but thanks to Zen I have no intention of going down that road so, while I am happy to live with that regulation because it can give rash decisions time to pass. California has that restriction as well and you have to pass a safety and California gun law test too.

 

[nakedfrog]

This is an honest question, not a JAQoff. Would limiting guns actually reduce the suicide rate? I think that may be the logic behind some arguments to not include suicide in the number of deaths used to argue for more restrictions.

Is there data to support this? Any correlation/causation study that is independently duplicated?

Reminder: I support 100% loophole free background checks, licensing and registration.

There's a number of links to other ways to slice the data from within here.

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[Amused]

Yes, most suicide attempts come from a unique moment of despair and if you can just sleep it off or whatever will not attempt suicide the next day. This is why suicide prevention organizations strongly support waiting periods.

Firearms and suicide prevention

Over half of all suicide deaths in the U.S. occur with a firearm. Yet we know there are measures that can reduce the risk of suicide for someone in crisis. From offering suicide prevention education for retailers, range owners and firearms owners to encouraging safe storage, there are actions we...

afsp.org

That provides no data proving a correlation much less causation. Look, I'm not trying to be an asshole but "common sense" and "everyone knows this" is not evidence.

Do suicide rates go down when guns are restricted?

 

[fskimospy]

That provides no data proving a correlation much less causation. Look, I'm not trying to be an asshole but "common sense" and "everyone knows this" is not evidence.

Do suicide rates go down when guns are restricted?

Oh sorry I didn’t understand. Yes, that data is very clear. Massive effects.

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don't own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don't.

med.stanford.edu

 

[Amused]

There's a number of links to other ways to slice the data from within here.

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Yet that raw number ignores any and all confounding factors. It addresses one confounding factor and says "we don't know" if it is the guns, or the culture, i.e, Rurality specifically.

 

[nakedfrog]

Yet that raw number ignores any and all confounding factors. It addresses one confounding factor and says "we don't know" if it is the guns, or the culture, i.e, Rurality specifically.

Well, it turns out, there's more ways to slice the data from within that report, I wasn't meaning "THIS SINGLE TABLE ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION DEFINITIVELY!"
Other parts of the report touch on restriction of low-lethality methods and high-lethality, takes a look at the suicide rate change when they stopped using coal gas in ovens, etc.

 

[Amused]

Oh sorry I didn’t understand. Yes, that data is very clear. Massive effects.

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don't own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don't.

med.stanford.edu

OK, that's more compelling. Yet even they say nearly half of all gun suicides bought the gun to commit suicide (person committed suicide with newly purchased weapon). So that dramatically lowers the claimed influence.

 

[K1052]

I'm on my first 10 day wait as a California resident, truly doesn't bother me. Never had any objection to waiting periods.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm on my first 10 day wait as a California resident, truly doesn't bother me. Never had any objection to waiting periods.

Anybody determined to kill someone can also wait ten days to do so. The ten day wait helps cool only rash flash in the pan feelings.

 

[MrSquished]

From being suicidal at some points and talking to suicidal people, there is no doubt a lot of people with even easier access to guns would be dead.

It's amazing that some gun owners are poo pooing about the data on this because they might be inconvenienced by having to wait a week to get a super efficient and portable killing device.

What a wacky country this is. A lack of basic decency

 

[ivwshane]

What sane gun laws would have saved him? What killed him was living in a culture that hates the mentally ill because they do not want to see their own by reflection forcing suffering people

You think creating a culture that puts people above/before guns would change the culture we have now?

 

[Moonbeam]

Both.

I think I found your thread. I was searching for Silencers and PPE whereas the relevant terms were Suppressors and Personal Protection Gear:

Page 8 - The Pew Pew Thread

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

Please note that my only objection to California's ban on suppressors was that it makes it illegal to protect hearing with the PPE post coming after not before my own objections for the same reason. Nowhere did I mention the inability to use a suppressor in California as having anything to do with any invasion from another state. My objection was always to being forced to use a fixed magazine to if you want full features and the limitation of ten rounds. Either pass a federal law that limits magazine size in all states or remove the California restriction. Either allow full feature 10 round ARs nationally illegal without fixed magazines or remove the fixed magazine rule for Californians. The only thing I agreed to as being a concern with suppressors was in their potential use in decreasing the possibility of getting caught poaching. The thread was from May but I think it's what you had in mind but were mistaken in remembering.

 

[fskimospy]

OK, that's more compelling. Yet even they say nearly half of all gun suicides bought the gun to commit suicide (person committed suicide with newly purchased weapon). So that dramatically lowers the claimed influence.

Why does that lower the influence?

 

[fskimospy]

Anybody determined to kill someone can also wait ten days to do so. The ten day wait helps cool only rash flash in the pan feelings.

Which are a lot.

 

[fskimospy]

OK, that's more compelling. Yet even they say nearly half of all gun suicides bought the gun to commit suicide (person committed suicide with newly purchased weapon). So that dramatically lowers the claimed influence.

I think if I had had access to a gun as a teenager I may have killed my self and thankfully I didn’t. I think @MrSquished is saying a similar thing.

Suicide usually happens during a temporary moment of madness and if someone doesn’t have the means at that moment they live, and they are often happy they lived.