Jon Stewart on guns and public safety...

[Pipeline 1010]

Fund real education and help centers instead of jails.

now, if you think R’s are gonna get down with that, I got a pile of lulz here for ya.

You don't need R's in California. You could pass that legislation and you could pass it today. I don't think there is a will, and I am highly skeptical that it's a "oh well because the R's won't like it then I guess we won't do it." Look at the joke that legalized marijuana has become. Taxes and regulations are so intense that it sustains a black market. The Dem politicians didn't have to do that and the KNEW BETTER but they did it anyway.

Either way, our politicians are not being creative enough. It should be very fucking easy to sell "we will reduce minority welfare collecting druggies". If you can't sell that, then sweeten the pot. Promise that you will reduce the tax rate by some fraction of a percent with all of our tax savings by switching from punishment to treatment. Promise not to go after guns for a while if gun murder rates drop a certain amount. If you can't sell this to Republicans then it's because you don't WANT to do it. If you think you HAVE to sell this to Republicans in California, then it's an excuse because you don't have to sell shit to Republicans in CA. You just don't WANT to do it. The politicians need to put up or shut up on this. Or we could spend the next 25 years watching Jon Stewart cleverly insult gun advocates and in 25 years we will still be looking at the statistics with surprised PIkachu faces wondering why our shit strategy didn't work.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

It is a semi with a 100 round magazine. Personally I am legally only able to own a 10 round magazine AR but I would prefer to be able to have at least 20 rounds. 100 rounds would make the weapon to cumbersome to use for self defense in my opinion. Ammo is heavy. I am fine with regulations but not bans. The most objectionable ban for me is that in California silencers are illegal. They aren't silent but they muffle sound sufficiently in many cases so you don't need hearing protection when our in the wild target shooting alone.

I agree with everything you just said.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You don't need R's in California. You could pass that legislation and you could pass it today. I don't think there is a will, and I am highly skeptical that it's a "oh well because the R's won't like it then I guess we won't do it." Look at the joke that legalized marijuana has become. Taxes and regulations are so intense that it sustains a black market. The Dem politicians didn't have to do that and the KNEW BETTER but they did it anyway.

We we're discussing Federally, removing the Controlled Substances Act, as the WoD "trickles down" to a state level but comes from the top. After removing the CSA and ending the WoD, States would still be able to regulate sales. If you're problem is with CA, then take it up with CA. My home state is MA, they've levied a 20% tax on recreational sales and have been doing quite well. I think some of our success compared to CA could be due to environmental and geographical differences.

Either way, our politicians are not being creative enough. It should be very fucking easy to sell "we will reduce minority welfare collecting druggies". If you can't sell that, then sweeten the pot. Promise that you will reduce the tax rate by some fraction of a percent with all of our tax savings by switching from punishment to treatment. Promise not to go after guns for a while if gun murder rates drop a certain amount. If you can't sell this to Republicans then it's because you don't WANT to do it. If you think you HAVE to sell this to Republicans in California, then it's an excuse because you don't have to sell shit to Republicans in CA. You just don't WANT to do it. The politicians need to put up or shut up on this. Or we could spend the next 25 years watching Jon Stewart cleverly insult gun advocates and in 25 years we will still be looking at the statistics with surprised PIkachu faces wondering why our shit strategy didn't work.

It seems you think that messaging will get thru to the cult that is the GOP. You may sway some independents, but I remain skeptical that facts will have any sway compared to Fox New and the like. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention or not, but the last 15 years have really only reinforced my stance....with the last 7 just a whole lot of wtf.

Anyways, there's tons of information about why the WoD is a thing, turns out it's mostly politicians using fear as a weapon to lie to America. Cool part is they often used racism to do it.

just one example: https://www.history.com/topics/crime/the-war-on-drugs

You cannot ignore the effect this has had on our society and culture. I know quite a few people who have changed their stance on MJ specifically, but only because they've finally seen IRL that it's not going to cause people to murder grandma with a frying pan and drive away cackling like a wacko. But still, the stereotypes will persist as long as they're passed down from one uneducated ignorant (heavily influenced by propaganda) person to the next, and politicians will capitalize on that when it suits them.

I mean, this is the likely next GOP candidate, do you see any change in policy coming from this party? No. the GOP will not only get in line, because identity politics is #2 with them (#1 is giving the weathiest americans piles of money), but they will attack anyone who thinks differently, inside their own party or not. Ramping up the WoD is their goal. the GOP will vote for their very own Duerte if it means winning a seat at the high table and attacking the "right" groups.

fwiw, I’m not disagreeing with you in general, encouraging you to view expectations reasonably. I would like to be wrong is my views, because it would mean that maybe uSA isn’t on a path to a bloody divorce, but that’s not where the signs are pointing for the last decade or so.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I agree with everything you just said.

I think his statement is comical. Last fall, his opinion on CA and silencers was that when the civil war happens, the magatarians coming to invade CA all would have silencers and he wanted a level playing field.

Another poster presented silencers as PPE, and so Moonie must've thought this was a better way to present his opinion so as to seem less emotionally attached to guns.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[fskimospy]

Since Steward and everyone on this forum can't do math:
View attachment 77753

Also from the CDC:

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 77754

Lol - some people can’t do math (or even basic logic) and it’s not Jon Stewart.

First, it makes no sense to not include suicide or gang members because dead people are dead people.

Second, and more importantly, the question is simple - all else being equal do more guns mean more crime and death or less? The answer to both is more.

Therefore, it’s the guns. Anyone who understands math knows it’s the guns.

 

[darkswordsman17]

you know you can walk and chew bubblegum right?
We have active research on basically all those other diseases. But republicans barred any federal funding of research into guns and public health.

If a doctor so much as tells you that there is a risk associated with having a firearm in the house, conservatives flip shit

So he just tried regurgitating the old "well what about smoking or heart disease, they kill more!!!!" argument?

 

[brycejones]

Since Steward and everyone on this forum can't do math:
View attachment 77753

Also from the CDC:

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 77754

What brilliant point do you think this is making? Don't just use someone else's content make an argument.

Oh I see the problem you were trying to refute John Steward. This thread is about John StewarT. I'm sure that will change everything.

 

[brycejones]

So he just tried regurgitating the old "well what about smoking or heart disease, they kill more!!!!" argument?

Didn't even have the balls to say it. Just some other content he posted.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think his statement is comical. Last fall, his opinion on CA and silencers was that when the civil war happens, the magatarians coming to invade CA all would have silencers and he wanted a level playing field.

Another poster presented silencers as PPE, and so Moonie must've thought this was a better way to present his opinion so as to seem less emotionally attached to guns.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You will never find such a post because silencers have nothing to do with self defense except as a way to not go deaf in a home defense situation. You are imagining things.

What I object to about California laws regarding the AR platform is that if an ARs are brought into he state illegally From other states in any protracted situation, those guns can be superior to legal California ones.

In California to have a ‘full featured rifle’ but maxed at 10 rounds only, the magazine must be fixed. California politicians have thus decided that people with guns legal elsewhere if brought into the state will be able to more easily kill me as I will have fewer rounds and take longer to reload. The only thing that bugs me about that is that some politicians have decided it should be harder to keep from dying in such a fight. Am I worried about that, yes, as much as I am worried I will shoot myself because such battles are extremely rare and I have never needed a gun in my life that shoots even a BB.

Silencers do nothing as far as I am concerned to improve your odds in a fight except perhaps to save your hearing. I don’t give two shits in hell about some invasion of California with silenced weapons, so you are full of shit about me coming up with some new excuse to hide an emotional attachment to guns. I love guns. They are works of art and mechanical genius. But when I hit the lotto I will probably buy cars. They can be works of art and mechanical masterpieces and I don’t have to go anywhere special to drive.

You know what would really be cool is a tank.

 

[TheVrolok]

First, it makes no sense to not include suicide or gang members because dead people are dead people.

I think this part is key and quite telling. These folks don't care about suicide or gang violence because they have limited ability to empathize. They don't care about "others."

 

[HomerJS]

Since Steward and everyone on this forum can't do math:
View attachment 77753

Also from the CDC:

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 77754

Why aren't black history and transgenderism on this list? I thought they were the #1 threats according to Pubs?

By your warped logic we need to end all efforts to combat...
Cancer
COVID (fake virus according to Trump)
Accidents
Stroke
Alzheimer's
Diabetes
Liver Disease
Nephritis

Why? They are not #1

 

[purbeast0]

What a stupid "argument" trying to compare cherry picked gun deaths to cancer, covid, accident, etc deaths.

Does that dummy realize that literally every type of death he listed, that we are actively looking for way to lower those numbers and have medication/laws/regulations to help prevent as many as possible?

It baffles my mind that people this dumb or intentionally ignorant are even out there.

And they vote.

 

[Pens1566]

What a stupid "argument" trying to compare cherry picked gun deaths to cancer, covid, accident, etc deaths.

Does that dummy realize that literally every type of death he listed, that we are actively looking for way to lower those numbers and have medication/laws/regulations to help prevent as many as possible?

It baffles my mind that people this dumb or intentionally ignorant are even out there.

And they vote.

And they procreate. Faster than the folks that are above the curve ...

 

[ch33zw1z]

What a stupid "argument" trying to compare cherry picked gun deaths to cancer, covid, accident, etc deaths.

Does that dummy realize that literally every type of death he listed, that we are actively looking for way to lower those numbers and have medication/laws/regulations to help prevent as many as possible?

It baffles my mind that people this dumb or intentionally ignorant are even out there.

And they vote.

but hey, try to give R’s some healthcare and they’ll take it, right?? RIGHT???

 

[Paratus]

I think this part is key and quite telling. These folks don't care about suicide or gang violence because they have limited ability to empathize. They don't care about "others."

Saw this interesting Scientific American article that looks at the differences between Liberals and Conservatives.

Many Differences between Liberals and Conservatives May Boil Down to One Belief

Conservatives tend to believe that strict divisions are an inherent part of life. Liberals do not

www.scientificamerican.com

Basically says that the main difference isn’t how each group views how dangerous the world is but how they view hierarchies.

Liberals see most hierarchies as man made and shades of gray. Conservatives see them as immutable and natural. That limits the groups they can empathize with.

 

[Pohemi]

And they procreate. Faster than the folks that are above the curve ...

...hamberders...

 

[HomerJS]

Saw this interesting Scientific American article that looks at the differences between Liberals and Conservatives.

Many Differences between Liberals and Conservatives May Boil Down to One Belief

Conservatives tend to believe that strict divisions are an inherent part of life. Liberals do not

www.scientificamerican.com

Basically says that the main difference isn’t how each group views how dangerous the world is but how they view hierarchies.

Liberals see most hierarchies as man made and shades of gray. Conservatives see them as immutable and natural. That limits the groups they can empathize with.

As long as those hierarchies center around the straight white male they are fine. Ever notice the dog whistle people in this country want to change the "culture". That culture centers around them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You will never find such a post because silencers have nothing to do with self defense except as a way to not go deaf in a home defense situation. You are imagining things.

What I object to about California laws regarding the AR platform is that if an ARs are brought into he state illegally From other states in any protracted situation, those guns can be superior to legal California ones.

In California to have a ‘full featured rifle’ but maxed at 10 rounds only, the magazine must be fixed. California politicians have thus decided that people with guns legal elsewhere if brought into the state will be able to more easily kill me as I will have fewer rounds and take longer to reload. The only thing that bugs me about that is that some politicians have decided it should be harder to keep from dying in such a fight. Am I worried about that, yes, as much as I am worried I will shoot myself because such battles are extremely rare and I have never needed a gun in my life that shoots even a BB.

Silencers do nothing as far as I am concerned to improve your odds in a fight except perhaps to save your hearing. I don’t give two shits in hell about some invasion of California with silenced weapons, so you are full of shit about me coming up with some new excuse to hide an emotional attachment to guns. I love guns. They are works of art and mechanical genius. But when I hit the lotto I will probably buy cars. They can be works of art and mechanical masterpieces and I don’t have to go anywhere special to drive.

You know what would really be cool is a tank.

sorry bro, that was what you said. I paraphrased of course, but that was most certainly your stance on why CA’s silencer ban is foolish.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Since Steward and everyone on this forum can't do math:

How does that math change anything? Even if we accept your very dubious premises that suicide's are none of our concern and that people killed by gang members don't matter, those numbers still clearly show that guns are the problem. Nothing in those numbers says that it is the individual and not the gun.

BTW the numbers in that post are wrong. If there are 45222 gun deaths, and 24292 of them are suicide, then 5875 can't be gang related, only 2720 of them are, unless we are to assume that some of those suicides are gang related homicides, which does not make sense.

You, and the random guy from Twitter, seems to be the ones that are failing at the maths.

 

[fskimospy]

How does that math change anything? Even if we accept your very dubious premises that suicide's are none of our concern and that people killed by gang members don't matter, those numbers still clearly show that guns are the problem. Nothing in those numbers says that it is the individual and not the gun.

BTW the numbers in that post are wrong. If there are 45222 gun deaths, and 24292 of them are suicide, then 5875 can't be gang related, only 2720 of them are, unless we are to assume that some of those suicides are gang related homicides, which does not make sense.

You, and the random guy from Twitter, seems to be the ones that are failing at the maths.

It never ceases to amaze me that gun proponents seem to believe, or more accurately want to pretend to believe, that having one of the most effective killing instruments ever devised within your home would do nothing to affect the odds of someone in that home being killed. Of course it does!

I genuinely, genuinely wish they would just come out and say 'I like guns and I don't care about their harmful effects' instead of saying how instead we should cure all mental illness or cure humanity's self esteem problem.

 

[purbeast0]

I genuinely, genuinely wish they would just come out and say 'I like guns and I don't care about their harmful effects' instead of saying how instead we should cure all mental illness or cure humanity's self esteem problem.

It's because many of them are the lowest common denominator and just lemmings that repeat what their idols say, regardless of it being true or not.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

I think his statement is comical. Last fall, his opinion on CA and silencers was that when the civil war happens, the magatarians coming to invade CA all would have silencers and he wanted a level playing field.

Another poster presented silencers as PPE, and so Moonie must've thought this was a better way to present his opinion so as to seem less emotionally attached to guns.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well his signature does say his posts are sarcasm so maybe he meant it sarcastically. I still agreed with what he wrote, even if he meant it sarcastically.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think his statement is comical. Last fall, his opinion on CA and silencers was that when the civil war happens, the magatarians coming to invade CA all would have silencers and he wanted a level playing field.

Another poster presented silencers as PPE, and so Moonie must've thought this was a better way to present his opinion so as to seem less emotionally attached to guns.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sorry bro, that was what you said. I paraphrased of course, but that was most certainly your stance on why CA’s silencer ban is foolish.

Im guessing the post you imagine gave me some improved way to support the use of silencers as a way to ward off an invasion of California by out of staters coming to attack with their superior suppressed rifles, a claim I have never made came from post 9 of this thread:

Gun owners as entertainment

When will the "American Gun owner community" do something about these out of control thugs terrorizing our streets? or something. I'm just kidding. Just keep this shit in your state so we can mock from afar For those who like to err on the side of the shooter The man’s attorney, Robert...

forums.anandtech.com

The date on that post was Jan 31 2022 the winter of 2022. Nine months later I posted my views on silencers and nowhere in that was there anything about any worry about silencers and invasion. Post 99 here:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...eat-at-all-times.2607683/page-4#post-40871925

I wasn't even interested in the AR platform in Jan 22 until threads like that one peeked my interest in what the deal was about them and I started to study the issue.

So in January of 22 I would not have even know that silencers were banned in California or had any opinion on why it was a bad idea. I doubt I even notices @tweaker2's position. In that same thread I posted about how having rights like gun ownership are conditioned by responsibilities.

So the idea that that post in January was supposed to have given me a better way to support the use of silencers in you creating a lie. Please post where I expressed any opinion before Jan 22 that stakes out ANY position on silencers. I can't find such a post and you won't either. You made that up.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well his signature does say his posts are sarcasm so maybe he meant it sarcastically. I still agreed with what he wrote, even if he meant it sarcastically.

Sarcasm might look like this:

If the number of guns in private ownership determine the number of times people will successfully defend themselves from others using them for evil purposes then we should expect to see soon shot to death and eliminated from posing future problems if everybody is armed and trained to shoot straight. Statistics have shown that more guns are owned by good people who don't shoot others except when needed so we need to increase those numbers. When the population is thus fully armed the shear force of good guys with guns will overwhelm the bad ones. When all that has happened and the really bad guys are all ready for the lead smelters, the only thing we will have to worry about is Dick Chaney.

 

[MrSquished]

Lol - some people can’t do math (or even basic logic) and it’s not Jon Stewart.

First, it makes no sense to not include suicide or gang members because dead people are dead people.

Second, and more importantly, the question is simple - all else being equal do more guns mean more crime and death or less? The answer to both is more.

Therefore, it’s the guns. Anyone who understands math knows it’s the guns.

Basically he is basically dismissing all those deaths as irrelevant. Which is admitting they give zero shits about THAT gun violence.

Then minimizing what's left with the stats of other diseases. Basically saying - THIS IS ACCEPTABLE. Basically they are accepting the mass shootings, the domestic violence the school shootings and many murders. Which is basically how I think many gun nuts actually feel. Their thoughts and prayers are nothing but performative nonsense. Deep down all the gun violence is totally ok with them, it's just acceptable collateral damage.

Also this takes absolutely NO injuries from gun violence into account. And that is a BIG NUMBER. Getting shot and recovering does not mean everything is back to normal. These people are victims too, suffering from mental or physical trauma for the rest of their lives - or both.

Gun nutters are trashy people. Evil.