JJ May Just Save the Star Wars Franchise...

[KMFJD]

Fail at Star Trek? Please... He finally made Star Trek entertaining :biggrin:

They where decent movies but not Star Trek

 

[ctark]

Yes. Now we know that Darth Vader had no actual father, his mother was spontaneously impregnated by microscopic organisms. And he built C-3PO and knew R2-D2.

Face it, the story telling (which is really the only thing that matters) was shit.

Did you ever catch the reference about Darth Plagueis the Wise creating life through the force? Did you maybe put two and two together and think it might be a possibility that Darth Vader was created by the Sith? Lucas was asked the question and he gave a cryptic answer and said it was for us to figure out.

Also, if you watch clone wars, in season 6 it goes in depth into the force. Its more than just microscopic organism. The force is LIFE itself. Which is explained in the old trilogy, but I suppose you didn't catch that either.

So many Star Wars noobs around here its maddening. If you dont know what you are talking about then maybe just stfu?

 

[ctark]

This is something I can at least postulate on. The Star Wars universe is apparently very old. Technology long ago reached the point where most of it isn't going to get much better any time soon. You could look 1000 years in the past or in the future and things really would look much the same from a technological standpoint. There has been enough time for civilization to meddle with artificial intelligence, realize it's a bad idea, and outlaw it. There's been enough time for races to reach high levels of technological development and then slowly backslide into a lower state due to rebellions and whatnot. There is probably more rediscovery of old tech than there is truly new advancements in the Star Wars universe, all the while something else is slowly being forgotten. The net result is a pretty static state of technology for a very long time. In episodes 1-3 perhaps society DID possess moderately higher levels of technology due to not being shattered by war or under the thumb of an oppressive empire.

Not to mention the galaxy is pretty war torn. The galaxy as a whole is in shambles, and it will be even more so in Episode 7. Its been some 55 years since the start of the war, and it raged on and left no system unaffected. The Star Wars universe in ancient, they had the same technology 20 thousand years before the movies even took place.

 

[irishScott]

Not to mention the galaxy is pretty war torn. The galaxy as a whole is in shambles, and it will be even more so in Episode 7. Its been some 55 years since the start of the war, and it raged on and left no system unaffected. The Star Wars universe in ancient, they had the same technology 20 thousand years before the movies even took place.

I'd also like to point out that this isn't just fiction, for the vast majority of human existence technology remained fairly static or came and went. Even after the start of recorded history we still fought wars with swords, shields and spears for multiple millenia. Sure there were some great, highly localized achievements in some large cities (aquaducts whatnot), but for the average person life didn't really change all that much. Not to mention knowledge was much more fragile, so technological backsliding was common when empires fell and libraries/universities/the upper class were destroyed.

Hell sometimes the more technologically advanced nations just flat-out lost. When the Mongols swept across the known world, they kicked the asses of the most advanced civilizations of the time with tactics and weapons that had been in use for thousands of years.

 

[BoberFett]

Did you ever catch the reference about Darth Plagueis the Wise creating life through the force? Did you maybe put two and two together and think it might be a possibility that Darth Vader was created by the Sith? Lucas was asked the question and he gave a cryptic answer and said it was for us to figure out.

Also, if you watch clone wars, in season 6 it goes in depth into the force. Its more than just microscopic organism. The force is LIFE itself. Which is explained in the old trilogy, but I suppose you didn't catch that either.

So many Star Wars noobs around here its maddening. If you dont know what you are talking about then maybe just stfu?

So you're telling me that Anakin's existence was all part of a long running Sith plot? And his mother just happened to be a slave in the shop that the Jedi just happened to walk into because the shop just happened to have the part they needed for their ship? Why weren't the Sith keeping closer track of the person they "created"?

And since it was explained by Obi Wan in a movie made decades earlier that the force was life, why did Lucas add this crap about midichlorians when it added nothing to the story? Why not just have Qui Gon or Yoda or any other master just "feel" the force emanating from Anakin? No, he had to use a little device to tell how much "force power" Anakin had.

Face it, Lucas made shit up to cover his ass. He had no idea what he was doing and was making it up as he went along. The prequels were a mess, and no amount of tap dancing can change that, you sad little Lucas fanboy.

 

[zinfamous]

Did you ever catch the reference about Darth Plagueis the Wise creating life through the force? Did you maybe put two and two together and think it might be a possibility that Darth Vader was created by the Sith? Lucas was asked the question and he gave a cryptic answer and said it was for us to figure out.

Also, if you watch clone wars, in season 6 it goes in depth into the force. Its more than just microscopic organism. The force is LIFE itself. Which is explained in the old trilogy, but I suppose you didn't catch that either.

So many Star Wars noobs around here its maddening. If you dont know what you are talking about then maybe just stfu?

ummm....no one takes those "first 3 episodes seriously." no one.

No "true Star Wars" fan looks at that as anything serious. And I'm talking about those of us that grew up with the series.


If George was cryptic about it, it's because we already knew that he had no fucking clue what his story was about--the story he put together from those prequels was cobbled together from the back of a Snapple caps and the Cliff Notes to some low rent Tom Clancy novel.

He very clearly, and very directly turned the Force into some cellular body, or invasive microorganim with that first episode. If it changed into something else, yet again, after that...who gives a shit (sorry, I don't generally watch cartoons)

It doesn't matter what happened in the books. It doesn't matter what will happen in the books. That stuff can be entertaining, just like some of those DarkHorse comic series, but it doesn't matter.

Just because I ate up every piece of Star Wars content that was available up to and including c. 1999 and ignored all of it after because it was clearly adolescent claptrap written for slow people, does not make me "a Star Wars noob."

 

[zinfamous]

So you're telling me that Anakin's existence was all part of a long running Sith plot? And his mother just happened to be a slave in the shop that the Jedi just happened to walk into because the shop just happened to have the part they needed for their ship? Why weren't the Sith keeping closer track of the person they "created"?

And since it was explained by Obi Wan in a movie made decades earlier that the force was life, why did Lucas add this crap about midichlorians when it added nothing to the story? Why not just have Qui Gon or Yoda or any other master just "feel" the force emanating from Anakin? No, he had to use a little device to tell how much "force power" Anakin had.

Face it, Lucas made shit up to cover his ass. He had no idea what he was doing and was making it up as he went along. The prequels were a mess, and no amount of tap dancing can change that, you sad little Lucas fanboy.

AMEN. The Force was life itself. That's what it was, ....until it wasn't. Then I'm told well, it was again explained to be life itself, because "cartoons, and you noob don't know what you're talking about! George hinted at it indirectly so why don't you listen to him?!"

seriously.

 

[irishScott]

So you're telling me that Anakin's existence was all part of a long running Sith plot? And his mother just happened to be a slave in the shop that the Jedi just happened to walk into because the shop just happened to have the part they needed for their ship? Why weren't the Sith keeping closer track of the person they "created"?

And since it was explained by Obi Wan in a movie made decades earlier that the force was life, why did Lucas add this crap about midichlorians when it added nothing to the story? Why not just have Qui Gon or Yoda or any other master just "feel" the force emanating from Anakin? No, he had to use a little device to tell how much "force power" Anakin had.

Face it, Lucas made shit up to cover his ass. He had no idea what he was doing and was making it up as he went along. The prequels were a mess, and no amount of tap dancing can change that, you sad little Lucas fanboy.

Honestly I seem to be one of the few who had no real issue with midichlorians. As Qui Gon explained the midichlorians aren't the force, they're just the organisms that enable force sensitivity. Different people are born with different numbers of midichlorians, so that's why some people can sense/use the force and others can't, which is a long running pillar of the Star Wars universe.

Granted I would have preferred a more complex explanation, but it makes sense. *shrug*

 

[ctark]

So you're telling me that Anakin's existence was all part of a long running Sith plot? And his mother just happened to be a slave in the shop that the Jedi just happened to walk into because the shop just happened to have the part they needed for their ship? Why weren't the Sith keeping closer track of the person they "created"?

And since it was explained by Obi Wan in a movie made decades earlier that the force was life, why did Lucas add this crap about midichlorians when it added nothing to the story? Why not just have Qui Gon or Yoda or any other master just "feel" the force emanating from Anakin? No, he had to use a little device to tell how much "force power" Anakin had.

Face it, Lucas made shit up to cover his ass. He had no idea what he was doing and was making it up as he went along. The prequels were a mess, and no amount of tap dancing can change that, you sad little Lucas fanboy.

Sidious killed Plagueis, the master always keeps secrets from the apprentice. Plagueis was actually alive in Episode I right to the point where Palpatine got elected chancellor. Then Palpatine killed his master. I'm not stating it as fact that the Sith created Anakin, only that its possible.

Midichlorians are only one aspect of the force. Yoda did feel that the force was strong in Anakin. Qui-Gon did the test because he was aware of the prophecy. Qui-gon was often at odds with the Jedi council, and most on the council did not believe in the prophecy. You need some type of evidence to make the claim that the child was special. All living beings had Midicholorians, but the more you had the more potential you had. It's really not a terrible idea, you just didn't like the explanation of it and you feel it ruined your childhood.

 

[ctark]

ummm....no one takes those "first 3 episodes seriously." no one.

No "true Star Wars" fan looks at that as anything serious. And I'm talking about those of us that grew up with the series.


If George was cryptic about it, it's because we already knew that he had no fucking clue what his story was about--the story he put together from those prequels was cobbled together from the back of a Snapple caps and the Cliff Notes to some low rent Tom Clancy novel.

He very clearly, and very directly turned the Force into some cellular body, or invasive microorganim with that first episode. If it changed into something else, yet again, after that...who gives a shit (sorry, I don't generally watch cartoons)

It doesn't matter what happened in the books. It doesn't matter what will happen in the books. That stuff can be entertaining, just like some of those DarkHorse comic series, but it doesn't matter.

Just because I ate up every piece of Star Wars content that was available up to and including c. 1999 and ignored all of it after because it was clearly adolescent claptrap written for slow people, does not make me "a Star Wars noob."

So you define what a true Star Wars fan is? He did NOT turn the force into an invasive organism, its in all life. It does matter what happens in the books from here on out, because the same story group that does the movies does the books, its all now canon. Hate on the prequels all you want, that is your right. Even I dont like some things about them, but overall we are better off for having them. We got Ewan McGregor who did an outstanding job and Obi-wan Kenobi. We had Ian Mcdirmid who masterfully played Sheev/Sidious. We got to see what a bad ass Yoda was, and in turn we got to see why the Emperor was so powerful, and now we know the true danger that Luke faces in Return of the Jedi. Its almost sad the prequels could only be movies, because there was so much ground to cover story wise, that it will never be ultimately satisfying in movie format. I like the prequels, and I am a TRUE Star Wars fan no matter what you say. My favorite will always be ESB, but I still appreciate what Lucas tried to do. Hindsight is 20/20, he wasn't a good director. But without him you'd have no Star Wars, and I just don't want to live in that world.

 

[ctark]

Honestly I seem to be one of the few who had no real issue with midichlorians. As Qui Gon explained the midichlorians aren't the force, they're just the organisms that enable force sensitivity. Different people are born with different numbers of midichlorians, so that's why some people can sense/use the force and others can't, which is a long running pillar of the Star Wars universe.

Granted I would have preferred a more complex explanation, but it makes sense. *shrug*

Check out clone wars season 6, the yoda arc. Also check out the Mortis episode in the earlier seasons. You may or may not like them, especially the Mortis episode. But all episodes of clone wars had Lucas helping with story development, and they are all considered canon by the story group at Lucas Film.


Also I might add, for anybody interersted in The Force Awakens. There is a book series being released that explain some of the events leading up to TFA.

 

[BoberFett]

I've never payed attention to any of the EU stuff, and reading this page I'm glad I never did.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

Good god that is just so much contrived crap. It's like comic books: retcon as far as the eye can see, and it makes the stories absolutely ridiculous.

If it wasn't in the original trilogy, I'm simply not interested.

 

[BoberFett]

Check out clone wars season 6, the yoda arc. Also check out the Mortis episode in the earlier seasons. You may or may not like them, especially the Mortis episode. But all episodes of clone wars had Lucas helping with story development, and they are all considered canon by the story group at Lucas Film.


Also I might add, for anybody interersted in The Force Awakens. There is a book series being released that explain some of the events leading up to TFA.

So the guy who wrote a series of crap movies then went on to retcon a bunch of other stuff in a later series to try and make sense of the garbage he wrote previously? I'm hardly convinced.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

AMEN. The Force was life itself. That's what it was, ....until it wasn't. Then I'm told well, it was again explained to be life itself, because "cartoons, and you noob don't know what you're talking about! George hinted at it indirectly so why don't you listen to him?!"

seriously.

I knew I loved you in some nerd way Zinfanous.

 

[ctark]

I've never payed attention to any of the EU stuff, and reading this page I'm glad I never did.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

Good god that is just so much contrived crap. It's like comic books: retcon as far as the eye can see, and it makes the stories absolutely ridiculous.

If it wasn't in the original trilogy, I'm simply not interested.

The book is not considered canon, and be careful of anything you read on Star Wars wiki, right now its a mess with canon and non canon material. Lucas supposedly did help with that book, basically wrote a small treatment for it so the Author didn't break the boundaries that Lucas wanted to keep. They might take some of that material and use it in canon later.

So the guy who wrote a series of crap movies then went on to retcon a bunch of other stuff in a later series to try and make sense of the garbage he wrote previously? I'm hardly convinced.

He didn't retcon anything in Clone Wars. He just delved deeper into it. Yoda communes with Qui-Gon in clone wars, just like you see him do in Episode II and III. It goes over the fact that the Sith can never achieve eternal life in the spiritual world, however it leaves open the possibility that they can achieve it in the physical realm, which is all the Sith care about anyway. I don't get why you are so angry over a couple of films. Is it that hard to look past the shitty parts and look for the good that was done in them? If so maybe you should reconsider being a fan. I promise you that you will probably feel the same way about Episode VII. You strike me as someone who is resistant to change.

Lucas had no idea the A New Hope was going to be as big as it was. When creating a universe you are going to go back and try to refine things, or change them because you think its better. Its his story, not your story. Get over it.

 

[BoberFett]

Oh, and as for the noob comment, I have seen the original movies countless times, and the prequels a few times. I tried to force myself to like them, but they're just so awful and mostly pointless to the overall story. I still have a ton of the original Kenner toys from when I was a kid. Owned the trilogy on laserdisc. I can quote the movies backwards and forwards, and can name obscure background characters. When I was a kid my bedroom had wallpaper with ship schematics on it. I have the freakin' Boba Fett skull insignia tattooed on my upper arm where it should be.

I'm no Star Wars noob. I just choose to ignore all the crap that came after Lucas decided he need another billion dollars.

 

[BoberFett]

The book is not considered canon, and be careful of anything you read on Star Wars wiki, right now its a mess with canon and non canon material. Lucas supposedly did help with that book, basically wrote a small treatment for it so the Author didn't break the boundaries that Lucas wanted to keep. They might take some of that material and use it in canon later.



He didn't retcon anything in Clone Wars. He just delved deeper into it. Yoda communes with Qui-Gon in clone wars, just like you see him do in Episode II and III. It goes over the fact that the Sith can never achieve eternal life in the spiritual world, however it leaves open the possibility that they can achieve it in the physical realm, which is all the Sith care about anyway. I don't get why you are so angry over a couple of films. Is it that hard to look past the shitty parts and look for the good that was done in them? If so maybe you should reconsider being a fan. I promise you that you will probably feel the same way about Episode VII. You strike me as someone who is resistant to change.

Lucas had no idea the A New Hope was going to be as big as it was. When creating a universe you are going to go back and try to refine things, or change them because you think its better. Its his story, not your story. Get over it.

LOL at the bolded, you're a tool. I'm not resistant to change, I'm resistant to pathetic money grabs. And you're right, I have no interest in Episode VII. I'll just remain content with the original story, the past it hinted at, and the resolution it reached. There's simply no reason to keep the Star Wars story going other than extracting money from fanboys.

 

[ctark]

LOL at the bolded, you're a tool. I'm not resistant to change, I'm resistant to pathetic money grabs. And you're right, I have no interest in Episode VII. I'll just remain content with the original story, the past it hinted at, and the resolution it reached. There's simply no reason to keep the Star Wars story going other than extracting money from fanboys.

You mean the original story where Luke and Leia weren't sisters, and Darth Vader wasn't lukes father and had zero chance at redemption?

Man if Lucas hadn't messed with the story of A new hope you probably wouldn't like any Star Wars at all.

 

[BoberFett]

You mean the original story where Luke and Leia weren't sisters, and Darth Vader wasn't lukes father and had zero chance at redemption?

Man if Lucas hadn't messed with the story of A new hope you probably wouldn't like any Star Wars at all.

You're right, that was a silly, unnecessary plot twist. It should have foreshadowed all the TRULY awful stuff that Lucas would come up with later.

And so from there we've gone from twins separated at birth to those same twins' father actually having been created by Sith Lord by manipulating microscopic organisms. I can't wait to find out that Yoda and Darth Plagueis were ACTUALLY THE SAME PERSON WHO HAD BEEN SPLIT INTO TWO SEPARATE BEINGS BY THE DARK SIDE! Plot twist! Hey, splitting beings into separate good and bad beings worked for Lucas in The Dark Crystal, why not use it again?

It's worse than daytime soaps. And like most serials, what starts out as a reasonable number of things that you can overlook quickly snowballs into a bizarre contorted story that nobody can follow.

Whatever dude, like what you want. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

 

[zinfamous]

You mean the original story where Luke and Leia weren't sisters, and Darth Vader wasn't lukes father and had zero chance at redemption?

Man if Lucas hadn't messed with the story of A new hope you probably wouldn't like any Star Wars at all.

what do you mean messed with the story?

It was the story only when it was published. Meaning, post-production and final edits.

Do you know anythign about the editing process? Do you think stories shit out of some Deity's ass, pure and perfectly formed, only to be handed to the proper person deemed worthy by that deity?

No, they don't. Good stories take tons of work, dedication, hate, love, and tears. The never turn out the way they started--unless that person doesn't actually enjoy what they are doing.

Lucas gave up on that process some time around the mid 80s. He wanted to get his name back out there as the creative story genius (that he only ever mildly was) instead of the technical wizard and pioneer that he truly was. He wanted to stick it to his ex wife, so he shit out some crappy, pedestrian, bullshit for a new generation of kids that are impervious to criticism.

You know, I rather respect the guy for not giving a damn about the fans, shitting on a pile of dead corpses, and laughing all the way while the uber nerds ate it up gleefully. And this was merely all out of spite towards his ex wife. Honestly...good for him.

But don't pretend that there was ever anything non-cycnical and non-hackneyed at the foundation of those projects. They were awful. They were a true disaster of storytelling and filmmaking.

The only good moment was the Darth Maul fight, then of course the idiot in charge kills off the only useful villain of the entire series, right at that moment. ...this is the time most people with any experience in the world of writing and film realize that this is a mildly polished turd that we are witnessing.

Criticism is a fine thing--it is worth your while to be able to apply a critical eye to content, especially the things you are passionate about.


And no, I don't decide who is a star wars fan. But you clearly seem to think you are authorized to do this. That is exactly why I responded.

Like I said, I grew up with the movies and the merchandising whore that was this franchise (Lucas' true talent), read all of the stupid books and comic series that were published up until that first movie. I grew up, though, and realized this was stupid children's crap--this so-called "expanded universe," which was given its own name long after I cared.

I've also learned that most of that is "officially non-canon" now. lol. whatever.

 

[ctark]

You're right, that was a silly, unnecessary plot twist. It should have foreshadowed all the TRULY awful stuff that Lucas would come up with later.

And so from there we've gone from twins separated at birth to those same twins' father actually having been created by Sith Lord by manipulating microscopic organisms. I can't wait to find out that Yoda and Darth Plagueis were ACTUALLY THE SAME PERSON WHO HAD BEEN SPLIT INTO TWO SEPARATE BEINGS BY THE DARK SIDE! Plot twist! Hey, splitting beings into separate good and bad beings worked for Lucas in The Dark Crystal, why not use it again?

It's worse than daytime soaps. And like most serials, what starts out as a reasonable number of things that you can overlook quickly snowballs into a bizarre contorted story that nobody can follow.

Whatever dude, like what you want. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Then maybe you should find another thread. Just sayin

 

[ctark]

what do you mean messed with the story?

It was the story only when it was published. Meaning, post-production and final edits.

Do you know anythign about the editing process? Do you think stories shit out of some Deity's ass, pure and perfectly formed, only to be handed to the proper person deemed worthy by that deity?

No, they don't. Good stories take tons of work, dedication, hate, love, and tears. The never turn out the way they started--unless that person doesn't actually enjoy what they are doing.

Lucas gave up on that process some time around the mid 80s. He wanted to get his name back out there as the creative story genius (that he only ever mildly was) instead of the technical wizard and pioneer that he truly was. He wanted to stick it to his ex wife, so he shit out some crappy, pedestrian, bullshit for a new generation of kids that are impervious to criticism.

You know, I rather respect the guy for not giving a damn about the fans, shitting on a pile of dead corpses, and laughing all the way while the uber nerds ate it up gleefully. And this was merely all out of spite towards his ex wife. Honestly...good for him.

But don't pretend that there was ever anything non-cycnical and non-hackneyed at the foundation of those projects. They were awful. They were a true disaster of storytelling and filmmaking.

The only good moment was the Darth Maul fight, then of course the idiot in charge kills off the only useful villain of the entire series, right at that moment. ...this is the time most people with any experience in the world of writing and film realize that this is a mildly polished turd that we are witnessing.

Criticism is a fine thing--it is worth your while to be able to apply a critical eye to content, especially the things you are passionate about.


And no, I don't decide who is a star wars fan. But you clearly seem to think you are authorized to do this. That is exactly why I responded.

Like I said, I grew up with the movies and the merchandising whore that was this franchise (Lucas' true talent), read all of the stupid books and comic series that were published up until that first movie. I grew up, though, and realized this was stupid children's crap--this so-called "expanded universe," which was given its own name long after I cared.

I've also learned that most of that is "officially non-canon" now. lol. whatever.

You will probably laugh, but Maul is still alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg

One of the nicest fights they ever did on Clone Wars.

 

[irishScott]

Check out clone wars season 6, the yoda arc. Also check out the Mortis episode in the earlier seasons. You may or may not like them, especially the Mortis episode. But all episodes of clone wars had Lucas helping with story development, and they are all considered canon by the story group at Lucas Film.


Also I might add, for anybody interersted in The Force Awakens. There is a book series being released that explain some of the events leading up to TFA.

I just did, and as I remembered there's nothing there that contradicted what I said. In fact Qui Gon just explains, again, that midichlorians are simply intermediaries that allow living things to sense/use the force, they don't create it. So I'm not sure what you're trying to rebut...

 

[MarkXIX]

How is the technology in episodes 1-3 better/more advanced than 4-6? It makes no sense....

How about society went from largely free and prosperous in episodes 1-3 and what we primarily saw in episodes 4-6 were a rebel faction trying to defeat a totalitarian regime?

 

[darkswordsman17]

I actually expect these will be better movies than the originals (in various ways, structure and form of the plot and characters for instance), although I think they will also be more forgettable and less interesting just because they exist in a different era and are going to be trying to cash in on the nostalgia for the originals. Simply put, these can't be the culture defining experiences that the originals were.