Jewish Tunnels

[Xcobra]

It's sad that so many people have either lost or never had the ability to distinguish between good and evil. Hamas is evil,and so is the culture that spawned it. It shouldn't be hard, but I guess if you hate your own culture it might be.

Let's seeeee, how does Moonie put it: You project what you are inside. And it is pretty fucking evil. Holy shit...

 

[mikeymikec]

It's not, really, but why would I waste time qualifying it.

Yup, why would you go on a discussion forum and waste time qualifying your opinions. That would just be weird. It's best just to keep throwing out unsupported assertions left, right and centre and let people form their own conclusions about you.

So, you were enlightening us about apparently all arabs want to go around murdering people? I guess you also consider yourself to not be a racist, is that correct?

 

[MrSquished]

hey we got a new total piece of shit in P&N and it's not a new account, it's a Lifer!

well, at least we know what they are now.

 

[Perknose]

It's sad that so many people have either lost or never had the ability to distinguish between good and evil.

On this, I agree with you.

But if you think the state of Israel can kill their way to retribution for the absolute evil that Hamas perpetrated, without shedding one tear for the thousands upon thousands of non-combatant Palestinians, men, women and children, who are being slaughtered in the process, please at least consider including yourself in your statement.

We Americans thought we could kill our way to victory in Vietnam. We thought the same in Afghanistan. History has proved us tragically wrong. I hope you can believe me when I say I understand your existential fear for Israel. But why do you think you can kill your way to some sort of victory here?

In Afghanistan, we expended billions to decimate the leaders of those who resisted us. Others rose up in their place. It will be the same in Palestine. I beg you to see this, for the sake of Israel . . . and for the sake of your soul.

Ever and always, my friend.

 

[iRONic]

THANK YOU, Perk!!!

 

[crashtech]

I am sure all the children being blown to pieces are very grateful to not have been hacked

On this, I agree with you.

But if you think the state of Israel can kill their way to retribution for the absolute evil that Hamas perpetrated, without shedding one tear for the thousands upon thousands of non-combatant Palestinians, men, women and children, who are being slaughtered in the process, please at least consider including yourself in your statement.

We Americans thought we could kill our way to victory in Vietnam. We thought the same in Afghanistan. History has proved us tragically wrong. I hope you can believe me when I say I understand your existential fear for Israel. But why do you think you can kill your way to some sort of victory here?

In Afghanistan, we expended billions to decimate the leaders of those who resisted us. Others rose up in their place. It will be the same in Palestine. I beg you to see this, for the sake of Israel . . . and for the sake of your soul.

Ever and always, my friend.

I appreciate the time you took to respond, and your points are well taken. If it seems like I don't care about civilians being killed in war it is because I take it as axiomatic that war is terrible and evil, and is the last thing that any rational person should want. I'm not a war hawk. I wish Palestinian leaders would pursue a peaceful path to self-determination. I think most Israelis want that, too. But it's not what we have. We have a group of people that are taught from a young age to hate, to fight, to kill. if any other Western nation had been subject to the relentless attacks and violence that Israel has, this would have been over long ago. But a good part of the world holds Israel to a different standard than what they'd hold themselves to. Before Oct 7th, I could never really understand why, but now I do. A good chunk of people in the West just simply hate Jews. I didn't want to believe it. But here we are.

 

[Meghan54]

hey we got a new total piece of shit in P&N and it's not a new account, it's a Lifer!

well, at least we know what they are now.

What do you mean new?

 

[MrSquished]

What do you mean new?

I don't remember this cat posting in P&N but of course, I could have missed their occasional drive by's. I just meant new to P&N.

 

[IronWing]

I appreciate the time you took to respond, and your points are well taken. If it seems like I don't care about civilians being killed in war it is because I take it as axiomatic that war is terrible and evil, and is the last thing that any rational person should want. I'm not a war hawk. I wish Palestinian leaders would pursue a peaceful path to self-determination. I think most Israelis want that, too. But it's not what we have. We have a group of people that are taught from a young age to hate, to fight, to kill. if any other Western nation had been subject to the relentless attacks and violence that Israel has, this would have been over long ago. But a good part of the world holds Israel to a different standard than what they'd hold themselves to. Before Oct 7th, I could never really understand why, but now I do. A good chunk of people in the West just simply hate Jews. I didn't want to believe it. But here we are.

Yep, you doubling down on your biases, over and over. Enjoy your righteous bubble.

 

[crashtech]

Yep, you doubling down on your biases, over and over. Enjoy your righteous bubble.

Every post I've seen from you has been information-free. Why don't you save some time and bandwidth and just ignore me from now on. You'd be doing both of us a favor.

 

[VRAMdemon]

dp

 

[VRAMdemon]

hey we got a new total piece of shit in P&N and it's not a new account, it's a Lifer!

Congrats! .... Your not alone in here!

 

[Moonbeam]

Let's seeeee, how does Moonie put it: You project what you are inside. And it is pretty fucking evil. Holy shit...

Not exactly or we would all be stuck with however we were created to be who we are, stuck with whatever insane programming we had to endure as children. The issue is not some of us are evil of character, it is how we were made to feel. The last thing we want to do is remember the pain of that programming, but if we could and do, it can be changed. If we can get back and remember what happened by feeling it, reliving it again we can see it was all a bunch of lies we had to swallow to survive. We are no longer vulnerable children who can't defend ourselves. We are adults who have, most of us, been doing just fine taking care of our physical needs. We just need to face that how we feel, our own sense of worthlessness we project out onto others, is itself only a lie we believe and don't have to given greater and greater self awareness and less and less ego need to keep how bad we feel suppressed and out of consciousness.

In short what we project is a lie we believe about ourselves.

@crashtech, I would say, believes that you need to believe in some abstract thing he was programmed to accept he has bought into is what gives him value and without it he would be, well, a piece of shit he sees in the rest of us who do not share his views.

 

[Moonbeam]

Every post I've seen from you has been information-free. Why don't you save some time and bandwidth and just ignore me from now on. You'd be doing both of us a favor.

The info he gave you was that because you can't see your own biased duality, you just repeatedly double down. His information was thus useless to you but very much on the mark.

 

[crashtech]

The info he gave you was that because you can't see your own biased duality, you just repeatedly double down. His information was thus useless to you but very much on the mark.

Says the guy that talks about self-hate all the time, but can't see it manifested writ large in this issue. Everyone seems to be an expert in pointing out other's biases. A wise man once said, pull the log out of your own eye.

 

[IronWing]

Every post I've seen from you has been information-free. Why don't you save some time and bandwidth and just ignore me from now on. You'd be doing both of us a favor.

Your posts are vague, lizard-tongue shit. You don't have guts to call out posters but hiss implied attacks. It's really pathetic. You never define what you think of as western values yet are keen on considering yourself the defender of these values. Anyone who suggests that the government of Israel can do any wrong simply hates Jews. Again, it's pathetic.

 

[MrSquished]

Congrats! .... Your not alone in here!

Most definitely not. Most people here share my viewpoints on the Israeli-Palestinian issue. And since I am the polar opposite of the guy I called a piece of shit on this subject, and probably most other political topics based on that, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[crashtech]

Your posts are vague, lizard-tongue shit. You don't have guts to call out posters but hiss implied attacks. It's really pathetic. You never define what you think of as western values yet are keen on considering yourself the defender of these values. Anyone who suggests that the government of Israel can do any wrong simply hates Jews. Again, it's pathetic.

That's better. I appreciate the effort, minimal as it is.
I'm not going to be baited into defining values that anyone posting here should be versed in, or could be if they gave a shit. But here's one helpful hint: "Palestinians" do not hold Western values.
The strawman about the Israeli government is pretty nice. It's nothing like what I believe, but who cares when the fight is dirty.
I'm just here to be counted amongst those who disagree with this particularly deluded part of the prevailing "wisdom" here.

 

[brycejones]

That's better. I appreciate the effort, minimal as it is.
I'm not going to be baited into defining values that anyone posting here should be versed in, or could be if they gave a shit. But here's one helpful hint: "Palestinians" do not hold Western values.
The strawman about the Israeli government is pretty nice. It's nothing like what I believe, but who cares when the fight is dirty.
I'm just here to be counted amongst those who disagree with this particularly deluded part of the prevailing "wisdom" here.

Chickenshit

 

[MrSquished]

My fucking Western values are against colonialist land stealing, creating apartheid states with State terrorism like Israel has, And committing massive war crimes as Israel does.

A lot of westerners share my values. So shut the fuck up if you think you can just arbitrarily define them without even trying.

Feck off you sanctimonious little troll. You ignoramuses are a dime a dozen these days and real real easy to spot

 

[Moonbeam]

A little something on Western values:

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm not going to be baited into defining values that anyone posting here should be versed in

Why not? It seems to play a supporting yet undefined role in your argument.

I don't know about you, but the more I learn about the history of western nations such as the one I grew up in (UK), the more sceptical I become that we consistently and universally uphold any values that are worth a moral shit at all.

This seems like the totality of your argument to me:

1 - Palestinians are bloodthirsty and without mercy, trained from an early age to kill
2 - Support (for no apparent reason) for Israel despite the fact that Israel has killed many thousands more Palestinians than the other way around and yet Palestinians are meant to be the slick-shit killers according to you
3 - Palestinians do not hold "Western values" (undefined), but maybe the state of Israel does?

The strange thing is that you really believe that your argument is fact-based but you don't supply any evidence at all. Even the notion of supplying a logical justification seems to scare you, yet you complain about others supplying "information free" responses.

if any other Western nation had been subject to the relentless attacks and violence that Israel has, this would have been over long ago.

You might want to read up about the conflict between Ireland and the UK as a counter-example. Actually helpful hint: It wasn't resolved by carpet-bombing Irish cities into oblivion or subjecting the Irish to an apartheid regime.

 

[Moonbeam]

Says the guy that talks about self-hate all the time, but can't see it manifested writ large in this issue. Everyone seems to be an expert in pointing out other's biases. A wise man once said, pull the log out of your own eye.

Excellent advice. Not only do I see self hate writ large in this debate, I see it writ large in all the difficulties that humans face. One thing I have tried and apparently fail to communicate to my satisfaction, and I suspect the root cause is an unwillingness to hear, is that there is nothing I know about what I would refer to as psychological truths that I have not come to see precisely and only because I can see them as they have applied to me in introspecting about my own behaviors in the past. For this reason the wisdom you suggest to me is no stranger but integral to something I pay attention to as best that I can. I am aware then, if not perfect in application, and perhaps even more aware than is typical.

You will note, then, I hope, then, I am not alone in what I have suggested. There are two points I would like to make about bigotry, the first being that in my opinion bigotry is the unexamined result of a programming process that occurred at an unconscious level, in your case here, that Western values are the best values there are and the link I provided should give you some perspective on how you arrived at such a logically flawed notion. You took the bate, I also believe, owing to self hate and the need it creates to find some outside notions to identify with that represent what is by local custom considered the best of the good, as a substitute for the loss of real self respect. A second problem is that rather than hearing and evaluating information that implies are in possession of bigoted notions in a neutral and logical manner, owing to the benefits of holding your bigoted notions confer to your ego, you are powerfully motivated to hang on to them. I know this personally. The loss of my sacred cows that once made me a really super person led me to suffer annihilation of ego leaving me as just a nobody at all. I can't tell you what a relief that was.

You have a true original self that you lost that was created in the image of God.

 

[crashtech]

I concede the point on Western values. It's not a debate I wish to have.

A much simpler explanation of my position is that I won't support people who hate me and want to kill me, or are allied with such. Neither will I support people who don't recognize Israel's right to exist. I won't support people who have been offered peace and their own country numerous times. They unfailingly have rejected peace, presumably in favor of the chance to wipe out Israel.

The only reason the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank haven't killed every single Israeli is simply that they lack the ability. If they could, they would. How any civilized person could support that frankly boggles my mind. But here we are.

Jew-haters used to be something we thought of as being an extreme right-wing fringe. But now, bizarrely, the Left has become infected with this disgusting ideology, to the point where their hatred puts skinheads to shame in its virulence, volume, and influence.

And smart people buy into this, how? Because everyone likes an underdog? Or it is the self-destructive impulse of a society in collapse?

 

[brycejones]

I concede the point on Western values. It's not a debate I wish to have.

A much simpler explanation of my position is that I won't support people who hate me and want to kill me, or are allied with such. Neither will I support people who don't recognize Israel's right to exist. I won't support people who have been offered peace and their own country numerous times. They unfailingly have rejected peace, presumably in favor of the chance to wipe out Israel.

The only reason the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank haven't killed every single Israeli is simply that they lack the ability. If they could, they would. How any civilized person could support that frankly boggles my mind. But here we are.

Jew-haters used to be something we thought of as being an extreme right-wing fringe. But now, bizarrely, the Left has become infected with this disgusting ideology, to the point where their hatred puts skinheads to shame in its virulence, volume, and influence.

And smart people buy into this, how? Because everyone likes an underdog? Or it is the self-destructive impulse of a society in collapse?

Conflating hating Jews with being against policies of the state of Israel is a pretty gross and dishonest.

It has taken two sides with extremists who feed off of and need each other to get the Palestinian/Israeli conflict to this point, pretending otherwise is ignoring history and being dishonest.