Jewish Tunnels

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think the difference is how often the US deliberately targeted dense civilian areas vs how often Israel does. Maybe I am way off. Maybe the US military routinely attacks densely populated civilian areas because "that's the only way." If they do, I condemn that activity equally. If they don't, your equations don't balance. Adding secondary effects like deaths resulting from destabilization seems to me that you recognize your argument needs to be shored up. I suspect your 270,000 figure is not all direct action casualties. A brief scan of Wikipedia says ~3500 civilian direct action deaths in 20 months from 2001 to 2003. How many is Israel on target to accomplish if this goes on for 20 months? How about if it goes on for 20 years?

I was never in a combat situation when I was in (better for everyone honestly) but afaik, while there were civvie deaths, and far more than there probably should have been, there's a reason we have a concept of door kickers. We usually went house to house, block by block, to secure shit... Rather than flattening entire apartment complexes.

 

[cytg111]

I think the difference is how often the US deliberately targeted dense civilian areas vs how often Israel does. Maybe I am way off. Maybe the US military routinely attacks densely populated civilian areas because "that's the only way." If they do, I condemn that activity equally. If they don't, your equations don't balance. Adding secondary effects like deaths resulting from destabilization seems to me that you recognize your argument needs to be shored up. I suspect your 270,000 figure is not all direct action casualties. A brief scan of Wikipedia says ~3500 civilian direct action deaths in 20 months from 2001 to 2003. How many is Israel on target to accomplish if this goes on for 20 months? How about if it goes on for 20 years?

I'd like to believe that no-one outside terrorist organizations actually targets civilians. (So Russia is a terror state I guess).

Acceptable levels for collateral damage on the other hand... We'd all like for it to be zero and we all also know this is unrealistic. IIRC the US collateral numbers only went down with the rise of drone strikes, though it'd be nice if we could find some actual numbers on that.

 

[cytg111]

I was never in a combat situation when I was in (better for everyone honestly) but afaik, while there were civvie deaths, and far more than there probably should have been, there's a reason we have a concept of door kickers. We usually went house to house, block by block, to secure shit... Rather than flattening entire apartment complexes.

US also had the "Hearts and Minds" doctrine. Its hard to win hearts if you just flatten everything.

 

[crashtech]

US also had the "Hearts and Minds" doctrine. Its hard to win hearts if you just flatten everything.

Tough to win the hearts of people who strap bombs to their kids.

 

[IronWing]

Tough to win the hearts of people who strap bombs to their kids.

We could give them fighter bombers. They'd probably like that.

 

[MrSquished]

Tough to win the hearts of people who strap bombs to their kids.

hey we have our 18 year olds fly drones that take out wedding parties full of women and children and innocent civilians. if they could afford drones they'd do that instead. we send our poorest and minority youngsters the moment they turn 18 to immoral wars in places like 'nam where we dump agent orange and commit war crimes to boot. or we have our 18-19 year olds running a prison in Iraq treat it like a torture chamber.

i guess we are more civilized huh.

it's tough to win your mind when you don't have one that is for sure.

 

[crashtech]

We could give them fighter bombers. They'd probably like that.

Bless your snarky heart.

 

[crashtech]

hey we have our 18 year olds fly drones that take out wedding parties full of women and children and innocent civilians. if they could afford drones they'd do that instead. we send our poorest and minority youngsters the moment they turn 18 to immoral wars in places like 'nam where we dump agent orange and commit war crimes to boot. or we have our 18-19 year olds running a prison in Iraq treat it like a torture chamber.

i guess we are more civilized huh.

it's tough to win your mind when you don't have one that is for sure.

You forgot to compare the US and Israel to Nazis.

 

[MrSquished]

You forgot to compare the US and Israel to Nazis.

Not at all. I don't compare the US to Nazi Germany in any way.

That's your straw man because you can't handle that the morality of war is far more complex than your simple little quips actually imply.

As far as civilian deaths the US has been complicit in many hundreds of thousands and Japan was just a start. We have supported totalitarian governments That ruled ruthlessly with authoritarian police forces that killed and tortured many of their citizens.

Our bombs and drones are advertised as precision but sure in some cases, But even here in Israel we see there using 2,000 lb bombs in dense Urban areas. The US used agent orange chemical warfare in Vietnam. Even just in Iraq recently one of the things that managed to make it to the news, with photos, was our teenage soldiers torturing prisoners of war.

Look I don't know why I just typed that but I voice typed it so it took much quicker than typing. I highly doubt you're ever going to join reality anytime soon based upon your couple posts.

 

[crashtech]

Not at all. I don't compare the US to Nazi Germany in any way.

That's your straw man because you can't handle that the morality of war is far more complex than your simple little quips actually imply.

As far as civilian deaths the US has been complicit in many hundreds of thousands and Japan was just a start. We have supported totalitarian governments That ruled ruthlessly with authoritarian police forces that killed and tortured many of their citizens.

Our bombs and drones are advertised as precision but sure in some cases, But even here in Israel we see there using 2,000 lb bombs in dense Urban areas. The US used agent orange chemical warfare in Vietnam. Even just in Iraq recently one of the things that managed to make it to the news, with photos, was our teenage soldiers torturing prisoners of war.

Look I don't know why I just typed that but I voice typed it so it took much quicker than typing. I highly doubt you're ever going to join reality anytime soon based upon your couple posts.

I would guess that I've been well-versed in the Israel "Palestinian" conflict before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye. But your digression into how bad you think the West and particularly the US is just proves my point. People that hate the West tend to love "Palestinians." I can't expect you to know the real history when the good people of the world are busy erasing and rewriting it, but having lived through it, I know that the so-called "Palestinians" have been making wrong, shitty, warlike decisions since 1948. I could go into a lot of detail, but like you, I feel it would not really be worth it. You believe what you believe, why would it matter what some rando on the web says.

 

[MrSquished]

I would guess that I've been well-versed in the Israel "Palestinian" conflict before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye. But your digression into how bad you think the West and particularly the US is just proves my point. People that hate the West tend to love "Palestinians." I can't expect you to know the real history when the good people of the world are busy erasing and rewriting it, but having lived through it, I know that the so-called "Palestinians" have been making wrong, shitty, warlike decisions since 1948. I could go into a lot of detail, but like you, I feel it would not really be worth it. You believe what you believe, why would it matter what some rando on the web says.

It's like you don't think we already know exactly what you are. A pro-israeli radical Zionist that blames the Palestinians for everything since the West forced their Jewish problem onto their land with the worst instinct of colonialist power.

I knew this from just two of your one-line posts You people are so generically terrible it's easy to spot you.

 

[crashtech]

It's like you don't think we already know exactly what you are. A pro-israeli radical Zionist that blames the Palestinians for everything since the West forced their Jewish problem onto their land with the worst instinct of colonialist power.

I knew this from just two of your one-line posts You people are so generically terrible it's easy to spot you.

Oh, I guess we are enemies then. At least I will be fighting for Western values. God knows what you are fighting for but I'm glad we got it straightened out. I'm happy to oppose you, scum.

 

[Moonbeam]

Oh, I guess we are enemies then. At least I will be fighting for Western values. God knows what you are fighting for but I'm glad we got it straightened out. I'm happy to oppose you, scum.

I would be willing to bet you just announced the problem. You will be fighting for Western values but without also having any idea what they are and why they are worth the fight would be my guess? So what are these Western values?

 

[KMFJD]

wasn't there a Seinfeld episode about this?

 

[Xcobra]

Oh, I guess we are enemies then. At least I will be fighting for Western values. God knows what you are fighting for but I'm glad we got it straightened out. I'm happy to oppose you, scum.

Lol...enemies?? Just because somebody opposes war crimes? I would say, it's your inability to want to see objectively and consider the criticisms against 'your side' that carries this 'I guess we are enemies' mantra... How psychotic is that?!

 

[crashtech]

Oh, I'm opposed to war crimes. The so-called Palestinians have been indiscriminately murdering civilians for decades. Western self-haters justify this in their twisted minds somehow and support a people and culture that would gladly kill them too, given the chance. It's profoundly self destructive, and I'm not having any of it.

 

[Meghan54]

US also had the "Hearts and Minds" doctrine. Its hard to win hearts if you just flatten everything.

Guess the U.S. indiscriminately firebombing places like Dresden and Tokyo during WWII don’t count? It is our recent history.

 

[Meghan54]

Oh, I guess we are enemies then. At least I will be fighting for Western values. God knows what you are fighting for but I'm glad we got it straightened out. I'm happy to oppose you, scum.

Define “Western values”, if you don’t mind, scum?

And before you go off, ever serve in the military?

 

[crashtech]

It's sad that so many people have either lost or never had the ability to distinguish between good and evil. Hamas is evil,and so is the culture that spawned it. It shouldn't be hard, but I guess if you hate your own culture it might be.

 

[dank69]

It's sad that so many people have either lost or never had the ability to distinguish between good and evil. Hamas is evil,and so is the culture that spawned it. It shouldn't be hard, but I guess if you hate your own culture it might be.

Good and evil are social constructs, retard. Try for one second to imagine being a Palestinian child if your diseased brain can manage it, otherwise continue being an ignorant piece of shit.

 

[crashtech]

I'm happy to oppose you on this issue. It's the Arab degenerates that love hacking children apart. Unlike the too clever by half crew here, I know which culture is worth defending.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm happy to oppose you on this issue. It's the Arab degenerates that love hacking children apart. Unlike the too clever by half crew here, I know which culture is worth defending.

That's a pretty wide brush you have there, friendo.

 

[dank69]

I'm happy to oppose you on this issue. It's the Arab degenerates that love hacking children apart. Unlike the too clever by half crew here, I know which culture is worth defending.

I am sure all the children being blown to pieces are very grateful to not have been hacked apart.

 

[crashtech]

That's a pretty wide brush you have there, friendo.

It's not, really, but why would I waste time qualifying it. Those who agree will know what I mean, those who don't would just pick me apart regardless. I'm just here to be counted among the supporters of Israel.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's not, really, but why would I waste time qualifying it. Those who agree will know what I mean, those who don't would just pick me apart regardless. I'm just here to be counted among the supporters of Israel.

Oh you've been counted, don't worry about that. No takesies backsies after this point though.