Jewish Tunnels

[Moonbeam]

I concede the point on Western values. It's not a debate I wish to have.

A much simpler explanation of my position is that I won't support people who hate me and want to kill me, or are allied with such. Neither will I support people who don't recognize Israel's right to exist. I won't support people who have been offered peace and their own country numerous times. They unfailingly have rejected peace, presumably in favor of the chance to wipe out Israel.

The only reason the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank haven't killed every single Israeli is simply that they lack the ability. If they could, they would. How any civilized person could support that frankly boggles my mind. But here we are.

Jew-haters used to be something we thought of as being an extreme right-wing fringe. But now, bizarrely, the Left has become infected with this disgusting ideology, to the point where their hatred puts skinheads to shame in its virulence, volume, and influence.

And smart people buy into this, how? Because everyone likes an underdog? Or it is the self-destructive impulse of a society in collapse?

I would say it's because Israeli treatment of the Palestinian people is morally wrong and that Israeli government policies on the ground do not indicate any real intention to achieve a two state solution. Israelis focus on their victim status not paying attention to the fact that Nazi Germany was destroyed and Nazis put on trial. That is my opinion. I don't intend to kill anybody over it.

 

[amenx]

This seems like the totality of your argument to me:

1 - Palestinians are bloodthirsty and without mercy, trained from an early age to kill
2 - Support (for no apparent reason) for Israel despite the fact that Israel has killed many thousands more Palestinians than the other way around and yet Palestinians are meant to be the slick-shit killers according to you
3 - Palestinians do not hold "Western values" (undefined), but maybe the state of Israel does?

The strange thing is that you really believe that your argument is fact-based but you don't supply any evidence at all. Even the notion of supplying a logical justification seems to scare you, yet you complain about others supplying "information free" responses.

I dont think he believes his argument is fact based. Gaslighting is what Zio-defenders are usually about.

 

[crashtech]

...

 

[crashtech]

I would say it's because Israeli treatment of the Palestinian people is morally wrong and that Israeli government policies on the ground do not indicate any real intention to achieve a two state solution. Israelis focus on their victim status not paying attention to the fact that Nazi Germany was destroyed and Nazis put on trial. That is my opinion. I don't intend to kill anybody over it.

The Arab treatment of Israelis has been horrible for 3/4 of a century. I wonder if pampered people can have an inkling of how it feels to be surrounded by those who want to murder you, who don't recognize your humanity or right to exist. Palestinians been offered a 2 state solution numerous times. The ignorance or deliberate ignoring of history by participants here is stunning.

 

[brycejones]

The Arab treatment of Israelis has been horrible for 3/4 of a century. I wonder if pampered people can have an inkling of how it feels to be surrounded by those who want to murder you, who don't recognize your humanity or right to exist. Palestinians been offered a 2 state solution numerous times. The ignorance or deliberate ignoring of history by participants here is stunning.

Your dishonesty is stunning and unfortunately typical for you.

 

[crashtech]

Conflating hating Jews with being against policies of the state of Israel is a pretty gross and dishonest.

It has taken two sides with extremists who feed off of and need each other to get the Palestinian/Israeli conflict to this point, pretending otherwise is ignoring history and being dishonest.

It's Occam's Razor. No Western country would be held to the standard that Israel has. Therefore it must be that many in the West share the opinion of most Arabs, that Jews are somewhat less than human. It's amply on display, but people hide behind rationalizations. Oct 7 made it clear to me. Sorry you can't see it.

 

[crashtech]

Your dishonesty is stunning and unfortunately typical for you.

Well, your accusations of dishonestly are pretty typical of you as well. If you can't accept that I'm arguing what I believe to be true, kindly fuck off.

 

[brycejones]

Well, your accusations of dishonestly are pretty typical of you as well. If you can't accept that I'm arguing what I believe to be true, kindly fuck off.

I accept that you're a lying sack of shit. If you can't take being called out for being that lying sack of shit then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe stop being one?

You entered this thread with bullshit posts playing coy with what you really thought. So yeah you're a lying sack of shit.

 

[dank69]

The Arab treatment of Israelis has been horrible for 3/4 of a century. I wonder if pampered people can have an inkling of how it feels to be surrounded by those who want to murder you, who don't recognize your humanity or right to exist. Palestinians been offered a 2 state solution numerous times. The ignorance or deliberate ignoring of history by participants here is stunning.

When our government intentionally kills civilians we criticize it, so what standard is Israel being held to that we are not?

 

[crashtech]

You

I accept that you're a lying sack of shit. If you can't take being called out for being that lying sack of shit then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe stop being one?

You entered this thread with bullshit posts playing coy with what you really thought. So yeah you're a lying sack of shit.

I accept that you are nothing more than a junkyard dog. Bark bark.

 

[crashtech]

When our government intentionally kills civilians we criticize it, so what standard is Israel being held to that we are not?

The standard of reasonable self-defense. Tough to imagine, surely, but replace Israel with any Western or even Western adjacent country, and the provocations of Hamas would have been history long ago.

 

[brycejones]

I accept that you are nothing more than a junkyard dog. Bark bark.

Since you're a liar I guess that doesn't mean that much.

 

[brycejones]

The standard of reasonable self-defense. Tough to imagine, surely, but replace Israel with any Western or even Western adjacent country, and the provocations of Hamas would have been history long ago.

NM, this thread was originally about tunnels in NYC. If you want to whine about people hating on Israel it's probably best to do that in the thread dedicated to the current conflict in Gaza.

 

[dank69]

The standard of reasonable self-defense. Tough to imagine, surely, but replace Israel with any Western or even Western adjacent country, and the provocations of Hamas would have been history long ago.

Killing civilians isn't self defense...and it certainly isn't reasonable.

 

[crashtech]

Killing civilians isn't self defense...and it certainly isn't reasonable.

Your naivete and idealism are nice. I would want to think like that, but being a student of history, it would require me to be subject to severe amnesia before I could do so.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

It's Occam's Razor. No Western country would be held to the standard that Israel has. Therefore it must be that many in the West share the opinion of most Arabs, that Jews are somewhat less than human. It's amply on display, but people hide behind rationalizations. Oct 7 made it clear to me. Sorry you can't see it.

-Counterpoint: Israel is held to a high standard precisely because Jews have been subjected to horrific treatment through the ages and we expect better of them when dealing with other groups.

This isn't 1948 or Six Days or Yom Kippur where an advanced/equal/superior force is attacking Israel.

 

[mikeymikec]

I concede the point on Western values. It's not a debate I wish to have.

A much simpler explanation of my position is that I won't support people who hate me and want to kill me, or are allied with such. Neither will I support people who don't recognize Israel's right to exist. I won't support people who have been offered peace and their own country numerous times. They unfailingly have rejected peace, presumably in favor of the chance to wipe out Israel.

Who are those people exactly, have you identified each of them? Millions of people living in Palestine, you've very likely never been there, you don't know any of them and yet you've decided that none of them support Israel's right to exist? Have you considered that most people just want to freaking live and lead ordinary lives and raise families, surely that's what your personal experience in life tells you?

Have you tried turning this argument around against Israel - that the state of Israel needs to support Palestine's right to exist with its own autonomy and government? Because the state of Israel clearly doesn't.

Imagine the state of Israel being proud of making statements like this: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/gaza-tent-city-israel-invasion/
They envisaged Gazans being reduced to living in ghettos, poverty and disease rampant.

Are you a Palestinian? You can't use these roads then: https://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/segregated-roads-west-bank

The only reason the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank haven't killed every single Israeli is simply that they lack the ability. If they could, they would. How any civilized person could support that frankly boggles my mind. But here we are.

Putting aside the first part of your point aside that I've already answered, have you considered that Israel clearly does have the ability to kill every single Palestinian civilian and has been working their way through the population over the last few months? At least 20k civilians dead, carpet-bombing families. Chilling abbreviations in use in Gaza such as "WCNSF" (Wounded Child, No Surviving Family). Palestinian cemeteries being bulldozed by the IDF.

Jew-haters used to be something we thought of as being an extreme right-wing fringe. But now, bizarrely, the Left has become infected with this disgusting ideology, to the point where their hatred puts skinheads to shame in its virulence, volume, and influence.

And smart people buy into this, how? Because everyone likes an underdog? Or it is the self-destructive impulse of a society in collapse?

If you consider yourself a smart person, then please don't engage in the lazy-ass tactic of suggesting that criticism of Israeli foreign policy = anti-Semitism. It's bullshit.

I have no problem with Jewish people and Judaism whatsoever. I have a big problem with Zionism, as would you with any ism if a random group of people used it as justification and said that their ancestors lived on your land thousands of years ago therefore they're entitled at the very least to kick you out of your home today.

I recognise Israel's right to exist. The clock can't be turned back on hateful and idiotic decisions on the part of the British and UN, and generations of Israeli people have lived in what they call Israel so the only alternative would be to turf them out again and go "somewhere". I recognise Palestine's right to exist, but the continuing encroachment of Israel into Palestine's territory and the apartheid regime that they impose on Palestinians must stop, morally speaking.

 

[dank69]

Your naivete and idealism are nice. I would want to think like that, but being a student of history, it would require me to be subject to severe amnesia before I could do so.

Does it give you any pause that you sound like the supervillain in countless books and movies?