Japan marks 'return of sovereignty' day

[Dari]

Japan marked the day when they regained control of their country after the end of Allied occupation. This day was observed with a speech by the popular PM and, even more importantly, the attendance of the Emperor and Empress. As usual, China and S. Korea protested at the PM's speech and the visit of lawmakers to a shrine dedicated to Japan's war dead (which also includes Chinese and Koreans). Why these countries relish on reminding Japan of its military past is beyond me. I will never understand why people enjoy feeling like victims (this is doubly so for China, a massive country that is at near superpower status). The country has apologized countless times and provided compensation. WTF more do they want? More apologies and a reminder of guilt, which are ridiculous. Is it about how history is written? That would be an issue if China and S. Korea did not do the same thing. Anyway, the whole point of this 'return of sovereignty' day, the first of its kind, is so that Japan can modernize its constitution and normalize its military. This would actually help the United States as it seeks to focus on Asia, although that would mean that Japan would stop paying the US $7b/year to protect it...

link

Japan marks 'return of sovereignty' day

Japan has for the first time marked the anniversary of the end of the allied

occupation, which followed its defeat in World War II.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said the "restoration of sovereignty day" would give

Japan hope for the future and help it become "strong and resolute".

The event is seen as part of Mr Abe's nationalist campaign.

He is also pushing for a revision of Japan's pacifist constitution to ease tight

restrictions on the armed forces.

It was during last year's election campaign that Mr Abe and his Liberal

Democratic Party (LDP) proposed the event to mark the day in 1952 when the

San Francisco Peace Treaty took effect, formally ending WWII and the allied

occupation.

"I want to make this a day when we can renew our sense of hope and

determination for the future," the 58-year-old said in front of officials gathered

in Tokyo.

"We have a responsibility to make Japan a strong and resolute country that

others across the world can rely on," he said.

Protests

It was the latest in a series of events and remarks that have angered Japan's

Asian neighbours.

Mr Abe infuriated China and South Korea when he suggested he may no longer

stand by the wording of an apology issued in 1995 for Japan's war-time

aggression, saying the definition of "aggression" was hard to establish.

China also strongly objected to the visits by several cabinet members and 170

MPs this month to the Yasukuni war shrine, which is seen as a symbol of

Japan's imperialistic aggression.

Sunday's ceremony was also controversial with some Japanese. Thousands of

people on the southern island of Okinawa took to the streets to denounce the

event as a betrayal.

Okinawa was invaded by US marines in 1945 and was not returned to Japan

until 1972.

Nearly three-quarters of US troops stationed in Japan under a bilateral treaty

are based in Okinawa.

 

[dawheat]

For a guy who's not Japanese, you surely have a hard-on for them.

1. I'm always a little skeptical anytime a government starts waving the nationalism flag - whether it be the US ('Merica Fvsk Yeah!) or any other country. The Japanese already are known for the pride in their culture - phrasing like this always makes me raise an eye.

"Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said the "restoration of sovereignty day" would give Japan hope for the future and help it become "strong and resolute". "

Japan is already strong and resolute - so what exactly is he playing for?

2. It would help make this a non-issue if Japanese leaders would stop doing the below. Obviously "aggression" is far too strong a word to use for Japanese actions in WW2. Maybe the wording should be more along the lines of a 'bit of a spat'?

Mr Abe infuriated China and South Korea when he suggested he may no longer stand by the wording of an apology issued in 1995 for Japan's war-time aggression, saying the definition of "aggression" was hard to establish.

 

[Dari]

For a guy who's not Japanese, you surely have a hard-on for them.

1. I'm always a little skeptical anytime a government starts waving the nationalism flag - whether it be the US ('Merica Fvsk Yeah!) or any other country. The Japanese already are known for the pride in their culture - phrasing like this always makes me raise an eye.

"Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said the "restoration of sovereignty day" would give Japan hope for the future and help it become "strong and resolute". "

Japan is already strong and resolute - so what exactly is he playing for?

2. It would help make this a non-issue if Japanese leaders would stop doing the below. Obviously "aggression" is far too strong a word to use for Japanese actions in WW2. Maybe the wording should be more along the lines of a 'bit of a spat'?

Mr Abe infuriated China and South Korea when he suggested he may no longer stand by the wording of an apology issued in 1995 for Japan's war-time aggression, saying the definition of "aggression" was hard to establish.

I don't have a hard on for anyone. I just enjoy east Asian economics and politics and I call it as I see it. Japan may be strong financially but it is weak politically. They are trying to change that and turn it into a normal country.

 

[dawheat]

I don't have a hard on for anyone. I just enjoy east Asian economics and politics and I call it as I see it. Japan may be strong financially but it is weak politically. They are trying to change that and turn it into a normal country.

Well I think Japan building up militarily mid/long term to counterbalance China is certainly interesting, but mostly this article contains Japanese self-masturbation.

I imagine the somewhat sudden lose of prominence of Japan to be jarring for those adults in whose working life it occurred. After growing up in a world where Japan was the regional powerhouse, the envy of the world, and whose products were held up as ideals, they've been pushed back to second best in most areas by China and Korea. And not just economically or militarily, but also pop culture.

Is the call back to nationalism a cry to hearken back to their 'glory' days? Or the flip side is it foresight? IMO Japan is absolutely one of the key firewalls to avoid Chinese hegemony in the region in the coming decades. While the US can easily counterbalance China now, Japan is prudent to believe the US may not continue to enjoy the same advantages as it does today and may need to be able to be self-sufficient militarily .

 

[Dari]

Well I think Japan building up militarily mid/long term to counterbalance China is certainly interesting, but mostly this article contains Japanese self-masturbation.

I imagine the somewhat sudden lose of prominence of Japan to be jarring for those adults in whose working life it occurred. After growing up in a world where Japan was the regional powerhouse, the envy of the world, and whose products were held up as ideals, they've been pushed back to second best in most areas by China and Korea. And not just economically or militarily, but also pop culture.

Is the call back to nationalism a cry to hearken back to their 'glory' days? Or the flip side is it foresight? IMO Japan is absolutely one of the key firewalls to avoid Chinese hegemony in the region in the coming decades. While the US can easily counterbalance China now, Japan is prudent to believe the US may not continue to enjoy the same advantages as it does today and may need to be able to be self-sufficient militarily .

2nd best in what exactly? Japan still makes the highest quality stuff in that region. Also, their pop culture is far more pervasive. You don't hear about it as often because you just assume it's part of your culture. You find them in movies, video games, art, food, etc. China has nothing outside of food and S. Korea has gang-nam style and drama (for east asia). I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that Japan is weak, pop-culture-wise. As for militarily, they were never pushed aside. They're military, though competent and powerful, is less pronounced and advertised because of the constitution and to make it easier to do business.

Also, not sure how you equate a desire to normalize their military to nationalism. And it has nothing to do with not expecting the US to always be there. They feel that China is getting powerful and pushing everyone around. Therefore, they need to bulk up and keep China at bay. The island issue is a recent invention by China to bully Japan out of there since the UN announced that oil was in that area nearly 40 years ago. Before then, China considered the Senkaku Islands to be part of Okinawa. Notice how they bullied and beat back a war-torn Vietnam back in 1979 in order to take over the Paracel Islands. They are now trying to bully the Philippines as well. This cannot continue.

 

[Agent11]

Japan has had more than it's fair share of troubles lately, and they have aggressive neighbors who have threatened them and made claims on theirs and others territory in the region.

A little bit of nationalistic rhetoric is to be expected, and they will need a military eventually.

 

[5150Joker]

Japan's constitution should be changed to allow a fully offensive army, it's about time the US released the chains. And there's nothing wrong with them wanting to be nationalistic, the Chinese and S. Koreans are very nationalistic and likely more than Japan. If anything, USA has everyone beat on flag waving. However, Japan regaining their old glory will likely never happen given their depressed economy, aged population and declining birth rate.

As for guilt trips, SK and China must be taking classes in Israel on that subject.

 

[Dari]

Japan's constitution should be changed to allow a fully offensive army, it's about time the US released the chains. And there's nothing wrong with them wanting to be nationalistic, the Chinese and S. Koreans are very nationalistic and likely more than Japan. If anything, USA has everyone beat on flag waving. However, Japan regaining their old glory will likely never happen given their depressed economy, aged population and declining birth rate.

As for guilt trips, SK and China must be taking classes in Israel on that subject.

Israel does not behave as bad as those two children. Also, it wasn't America that was holding Japan back but many Japanese who don't want Japan to have a regular army. It is these people that are strident in their pacifist beliefs and don't understand how dangerous and wild the world is. Can't blame them, they live in Japan and aren't accustomed to a lot of the bad things that happens elsewhere. The Prime Minister's audience was primarily Japan and her many leftist political parties.

 

[bononos]

Japan's constitution should be changed to allow a fully offensive army, it's about time the US released the chains......

As for guilt trips, SK and China must be taking classes in Israel on that subject.

By 'defensive army' you mean to say that Japan has a weak and decrepit military force, and you are wrong. Japan only 2nd to China in terms of military power and not far behind if it is in fact actually behind.

Or do you mean to say the US should prod Japan to use its military force as an instrument of govt policy to support its geopolitical aims?

 

[bononos]

Israel does not behave as bad as those two children. Also, it wasn't America that was holding Japan back but many Japanese who don't want Japan to have a regular army. It is these people that are strident in their pacifist beliefs and don't understand how dangerous and wild the world is. Can't blame them, they live in Japan and aren't accustomed to a lot of the bad things that happens elsewhere. The Prime Minister's audience was primarily Japan and her many leftist political parties.

What sort of world are you living in? Japan has a regular army not an 'irregular' one.

As for your OP, an apology is not really an apology if it is insincere given Japan's yearly pageantry at the Yasukuni shrine and the refusals at proper compensation for war crimes. Japan escaped the cleansing that Germany (anti-Nazi) was put through.

 

[Dari]

What sort of world are you living in? Japan has a regular army not an 'irregular' one.

As for your OP, an apology is not really an apology if it is insincere given Japan's yearly pageantry at the Yasukuni shrine and the refusals at proper compensation for war crimes. Japan escaped the cleansing that Germany (anti-Nazi) was put through.

Their armed forces is called the Self-Defense Force. There is nothing regular about that. They are only there to defend, at least officially...

This obsession with 14 ashes out of millions at Yasukuni is what many Japanese do not understand. The cemetary houses far more than what many concentrate on. That's like equating America only with gang violence and rape. Ridiculous.

Also, if these countries are asking for an apology they must be ready to forgive. Clearly they are not and want to use any little thing to criticize Japan. Notice how it is only these two countries that bitch and whine about everything when Japan invaded like 2 dozen countries in Asia. Only those 2 that bitch about Yasukuni and history books. Only those two that demand more apologies. They have a complex with Japan and are deeply insecure when compared to her. It's sad.

Also, many outside of Japan may feel that the country did not go as far as Germany in its apologies. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. First, the cultures are different so the things you do not consider going far enough are far enough for those in the region. 2nd, unlike Europe, many of these Asian "countries" were European colonies so the Japanese were actually welcomed as liberators when they just replaced the Europeans. And third, Japan had to actually develop these countries since they are dirt poor and the EUropeans were just sucking them dry...

 

[unokitty]

Their armed forces is called the Self-Defense Force. There is nothing regular about that. They are only there to defend, at least officially...

This obsession with 14 ashes out of millions at Yasukuni is what many Japanese do not understand.

When I was in the US Army, I did some work with the Japanese Self-Defense forces. My uniform was OD green. Their uniform was gray... Other than that, they looked and acted pretty regular to me.

Yasukuni is the only place in the world where convicted war criminals are honored.

"The shrine is also attached to a museum of World War II which portrays a highly nationalistic and even inflammatory version of the causes and course of the war. In addition, over the post war years, the shrine has become associated intellectually and emotionally with right wing causes and thinking in Japan. Some of this thinking denies the inhuman treatment of Nanking, the drafting by the Japanese army of Korean, Filipina, and other women into prostitution as so called "comfort women", and other wartime tragedies. "
-FP


Forgiveness becomes extraordinarily difficult when Japan keeps denying that it was an aggressor during WWII.

For example, recently, the Japanese Prime Minister... "took to the floor of the Diet to question whether Japan had really "invaded" its neighbors in the run-up to the war. "The definition of what constitutes an 'invasion' has yet to be established in academia or in the international community," the Journal quoted Mr. Abe saying."
-WSJ

Doesn't sound like an apology to me.

Uno

 

[Dari]

When I was in the US Army, I did some work with the Japanese Self-Defense forces. My uniform was OD green. Their uniform was gray... Other than that, they looked and acted pretty regular to me.

Yasukuni is the only place in the world where convicted war criminals are honored.

"The shrine is also attached to a museum of World War II which portrays a highly nationalistic and even inflammatory version of the causes and course of the war. In addition, over the post war years, the shrine has become associated intellectually and emotionally with right wing causes and thinking in Japan. Some of this thinking denies the inhuman treatment of Nanking, the drafting by the Japanese army of Korean, Filipina, and other women into prostitution as so called "comfort women", and other wartime tragedies. "
-FP


Forgiveness becomes extraordinarily difficult when Japan keeps denying that it was an aggressor during WWII.

For example, recently, the Japanese Prime Minister... "took to the floor of the Diet to question whether Japan had really "invaded" its neighbors in the run-up to the war. "The definition of what constitutes an 'invasion' has yet to be established in academia or in the international community," the Journal quoted Mr. Abe saying."
-WSJ

Doesn't sound like an apology to me.

Uno

Has Europe apologized for colonizing and killing hundreds of millions? No? I didn't think so. Also, if people want to label these men war criminals that's their opinions. However, they were soldiers fighting for Japan so don't be shocked if the Japanese see them differently. If these men actually went against military commands then they should've been punished by the state. However, for outsiders to label them as such is silly. A lot of Israelis have been labelled as war criminals and even Bush is labelled as such by many here, but most citizens of their respective countries do not take such labels seriously. These bitches need to get a new hobby besides masturbating over their victimhood...

 

[CZroe]

OP: They can stop white-washing their history books and acknowledge the truth, or are you blissfully unaware of that whole controversy when you ask what else they can do?

 

[unokitty]

These bitches need to get a new hobby besides masturbating over their victimhood...

Still doesn't sound like an apology to me.

Point being that it seems inconsistent to on one hand demand forgiveness while on the other hand deny that you are guilty of anything that requires forgiveness...

Uno

 

[wirednuts]

if japan was a real man they would have let us help them when their nuclear reactors were running away from them.

 

[bononos]

Their armed forces is called the Self-Defense Force. There is nothing regular about that. They are only there to defend, at least officially...

This obsession with 14 ashes out of millions at Yasukuni is what many Japanese do not understand. The cemetary houses far more than what many concentrate on. That's like equating America only with gang violence and rape. Ridiculous.

Also, if these countries are asking for an apology they must be ready to forgive. Clearly they are not and want to use any little thing to criticize Japan. Notice how it is only these two countries that bitch and whine about everything when Japan invaded like 2 dozen countries in Asia. Only those 2 that bitch about Yasukuni and history books. Only those two that demand more apologies. They have a complex with Japan and are deeply insecure when compared to her. It's sad.

Also, many outside of Japan may feel that the country did not go as far as Germany in its apologies. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. First, the cultures are different so the things you do not consider going far enough are far enough for those in the region. 2nd, unlike Europe, many of these Asian "countries" were European colonies so the Japanese were actually welcomed as liberators when they just replaced the Europeans. And third, Japan had to actually develop these countries since they are dirt poor and the EUropeans were just sucking them dry...

????? What is it exactly that you don't like about the term 'self-defense force'? Aren't all armed forces supposed to only defend in principle in accordance with international laws and norms?
Or are you ranting on again about how countries should be able to use military force as an instrument of national policy?

Yasukuni is more than just ashes of the dead. Theres a whole lot of dog whistle politics (to Americans) going on which you just don't get.

Alot of the controversy is again way over your head. China was left out of the discussions on war reparations right after WW2- the repercussions of that absence is being felt again with circling warships today.

Japan was an imperialist power like any other western power (unless you believe Jap WW2 propaganda). It developed its colonies in so far only to enrich itself at the expense of the local inhabitants.

 

[Dari]

OP: They can stop white-washing their history books and acknowledge the truth, or are you blissfully unaware of that whole controversy when you ask what else they can do?

Japan will stop white-washing as soon as S. Korea and China start doing the same...

Still doesn't sound like an apology to me.

Point being that it seems inconsistent to on one hand demand forgiveness while on the other hand deny that you are guilty of anything that requires forgiveness...

Uno

Japan has been apologizing for over 60 years and they still complain. No wonder the country is turning a deaf ear to all that noise. If you don't want Japan to go nationalistic stop whining.

????? What is it exactly that you don't like about the term 'self-defense force'? Aren't all armed forces supposed to only defend in principle in accordance with international laws and norms?
Or are you ranting on again about how countries should be able to use military force as an instrument of national policy?

Yasukuni is more than just ashes of the dead. Theres a whole lot of dog whistle politics (to Americans) going on which you just don't get.

Alot of the controversy is again way over your head. China was left out of the discussions on war reparations right after WW2- the repercussions of that absence is being felt again with circling warships today.

Japan was an imperialist power like any other western power (unless you believe Jap WW2 propaganda). It developed its colonies in so far only to enrich itself at the expense of the local inhabitants.

It sounds like it's over your head or you're being deliberately obtuse. Who cares if China was left out? China was still fighting a civil war and were too busy to be involved. Besides, who knew which side was going to win the civil war at the time? Did you? When the Communists won Japan started compensating. They stopped in like 2004. Japan also compensated S. Korea in the 1950s and both sides agreed that claims were complete at that time.

You'd have to be a real idiot to think that politics does not play a role in these outbursts and histrionics from China and S. Korea...

 

[unokitty]

JJapan has been apologizing for over 60 years and they still complain. No wonder the country is turning a deaf ear to all that noise. If you don't want Japan to go nationalistic stop whining...

After what happened the last time they got all nationalistic, you think that it might be prudent for them to chose a different path this time?

Uno

 

[Zeze]

You guys haven't figured out Dari is a full-on raging Japanophile? He's slightly ragey and crazy too.

The blind selective memory of Dari is plain batshit crazy. Someone like him is a perfect example of those who deny holocaust and live in a little version of their own world.

There's a reason why he's the only fool convinced me to add him on my ignore list.

 

[finglobes]

Japan needs to dump the hentai, anime, lolita's etc and toughen up for China. Every other 12 yr old girl loves Japan because its become a poofy, rococo culture of teasy girls and fe-men.

 

[dawheat]

Personally I do think the whole thing is a bit overblown, but I don't think Japan is right in trying to downplay the whole thing. Frankly outside of Chinese/Korean nationalists, no one really cares, but there is regular irritation whenever reports come out that Japanese leaders continue to visit this shrine, that Japanese textbooks take great pains to avoid assigning Japan any blame, and that leaders make comments like "aggression" needs to be defined. Japan in this case is like a douche frat boy who says sorry for trashing your house but then spends the next hour telling you why it wasn't really his fault.

For those who don't know, the reason China and S. Korean continue to be unhappy with visits to the Yasukuni Shrine is that it enshrines multiple Class A, B, and C convicted war criminals. So for many, seeing Japanese government leaders going to the shrine and bowing leaves a bad taste in their mouth as they refuse to remove the names of war criminals. On the other hand, Shinto theology has reasons why they can't remove the names (otherwise I do think they would have). Leave it to religion.

 

[CZroe]

Japan will stop white-washing as soon as S. Korea and China start doing the same...

Asks what else they can do.
Gets an answer.
Dismisses answer without acknowledging relevance.

No. Hope. For. You.

Go on dreaming about how great Japan is. You should probably move there. I hear they have free anime and the women throw themselves at nerdy westerners. It's Utopia!

 

[Dari]

Personally I do think the whole thing is a bit overblown, but I don't think Japan is right in trying to downplay the whole thing. Frankly outside of Chinese/Korean nationalists, no one really cares, but there is regular irritation whenever reports come out that Japanese leaders continue to visit this shrine, that Japanese textbooks take great pains to avoid assigning Japan any blame, and that leaders make comments like "aggression" needs to be defined. Japan in this case is like a douche frat boy who says sorry for trashing your house but then spends the next hour telling you why it wasn't really his fault.

For those who don't know, the reason China and S. Korean continue to be unhappy with visits to the Yasukuni Shrine is that it enshrines multiple Class A, B, and C convicted war criminals. So for many, seeing Japanese government leaders going to the shrine and bowing leaves a bad taste in their mouth as they refuse to remove the names of war criminals. On the other hand, Shinto theology has reasons why they can't remove the names (otherwise I do think they would have). Leave it to religion.

So what? It's a shrine. The Japanese, and virtually all east Asians, worship their ancestors. They were convicted by an outside court and they continue to honor those who fought and died for Japan (again, this includes Chinese and Koreans, some of whom did not have a choice). Those outside of Japan may hate it but it is what it is and that will never change. Koreans and Chinese need to stop telling the Japanese who they can and can't venerate. Their constant harping has not changed anything and it never will.

 

[Dari]

Asks what else they can do.
Gets an answer.
Dismisses answer without acknowledging relevance.

No. Hope. For. You.

Go on dreaming about how great Japan is. You should probably move there. I hear they have free anime and the women throw themselves at nerdy westerners. It's Utopia!

Actually, I did address your answer. You said they can stop white-washing their history and I said they will do that when their neighbors start doing the same thing. Why do you have a double-standard for Japan?

I've studied there and plan on having a place there. Great country.