Its time to end capital punishment in America, Another botched execution tonight...

[Doc Savage Fan]

Stephanie Nieman was 19 when she was kidnapped, shot twice and buried alive a month after she graduated from high school. This man was also convicted of raping and killing his roommate's 11-month old daughter 2 years earlier. Somehow I'm not very sympathic that her killer had to suffer 10 minutes before he became unconcious and eventually died.
​

 

[JEDIYoda]

You can hear the death penalty supporters masturbating over this.

please graphically define "masturbating"....

 

[Knowing]

Nitrogen asphyxiation would tick all the boxes.

However, if our legal system is actually designed to not tolerate type I errors then including capital punishment is illogical because there's no way to correct the false positive when the accused is wearing a grass tuxedo.

 

[BoberFett]

You can hear the death penalty supporters masturbating over this.

Even if I'm against the death penalty, I still think you're a scumbag who contributes nothing useful to the world.

 

[Oldgamer]

This just boggles my mind. We have been killing each other with poisons for 1,000s of years and in this day in age, with our current medical knowledge, we manage to fuck it up this bad?

Isn't cyanide rather instant? What about Carbon Monoxide which at a high enough percentage (under 2%) causes unconsciousness in a few breaths and death within minutes. Really really hard to fuck that up in a controlled setting, people do it all the time with a friggen car and a closed garage because its so easy. You just go to sleep and die.

Edit: Not that I necessarily agree with the death penalty or our current use of it. I used to be a big proponent of it but just one fuck up is against the foundation of our justice system (better ten guilty go free than one innocent man be punished). Add to that fact that it actually costs more to put someone to death than incarcerating them for life, and it most definitely does not deter crime, I don't see the point.

Well your wrong on the carbon monoxide, and I can testify first hand at this. We had an old house and had an old gas furnace that caused the house to flood with carbon monoxide. Damn near killed our whole family. I got headaches, threw up and couldn't figure out what was going on. Long story short, we had a friend figure out quickly what the issue was, and got us all out of the house. We were all sick as dogs that day. It took forever for my headache to go away. Carbon monoxide does not kill you that quickly. Nor painlessly either.

 

[chihlidog]

I, for one, hope we spend countless millions of dollars figuring out how to ensure that not only do they have no pain when they're executed but that they live a lush, fulfilling life up until the day comes that they're finally put softly to sleep.

/sarcasm


I said in the other thread, and I'll say it here, people who actually worry about animals like this worry ME. Why do we give a flying turd if he suffers? I'm not worried about my trash when it goes out to the curb. Is it too cold for it? Will it get crushed quickly enough in the garbage truck not to notice? Seems to me worrying about this guy is just as silly. Once he committed that act, he became human trash that needed to be disposed of. We need to do it in the most efficient, effective way possible. And if that hurts, waaahhhhh. Cry me a river.

 

[TheSiege]

I, for one, hope we spend countless millions of dollars figuring out how to ensure that not only do they have no pain when they're executed but that they live a lush, fulfilling life up until the day comes that they're finally put softly to sleep.

/sarcasm


I said in the other thread, and I'll say it here, people who actually worry about animals like this worry ME. Why do we give a flying turd if he suffers? I'm not worried about my trash when it goes out to the curb. Is it too cold for it? Will it get crushed quickly enough in the garbage truck not to notice? Seems to me worrying about this guy is just as silly. Once he committed that act, he became human trash that needed to be disposed of. We need to do it in the most efficient, effective way possible. And if that hurts, waaahhhhh. Cry me a river.

Because the foundation of this country says so, its in our constitution, if you don't like it, you are welcome to GTFO, believe in the constitution or not, but you can't pick and choose .

 

[OverVolt]

Lockett, who was convicted of shooting 19-year-old Stephanie Neiman and watching two accomplices bury her alive in 1999

Show me where I'm supposed to have sympathy again I'd love to know. People are so short sighted its incredible. If you went to 1999 and posted all the details of the case everyone would be going "death penalty ermagerd!!!"

 

[chihlidog]

Because the foundation of this country says so, its in our constitution, if you don't like it, you are welcome to GTFO, believe in the constitution or not, but you can't pick and choose .

Except the debate here isnt about the consitution, is it? It's about "awww he suffered". Not "It was wrong he suffered because the law says he shouldnt". It's a different issue.

We SHOULD follow the constitution. Absolutely. I do think, as others have stated, that there is room for debate over what is cruel and unusual. I'd argue that life in prison is cruel and unusual.....but what's the alternative? Let's think about this. Terrible food. Horrible environment. Threat of violence and rape constantly. No members of the opposite sex again, ever.

That's TERRIBLE, really. But we arent worried about THAT, are we? No, because we take the attitude of "well then dont be a criminal if you dont want that." But somehow, suffering for a few minutes is cruel and unusual? MOreso than being stripped of not only freedom but of sex, of decent food, of in many cases basic human contact?

Dont lecture me about the constitution. If we're gonna follow it then let's friggin follow it. And if that;s the case then as far as I am concerned all the people calling for lifetime imprisonment are just as sadistic as many claim that death penalty supporters are.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Because the foundation of this country says so, its in our constitution, if you don't like it, you are welcome to GTFO, believe in the constitution or not, but you can't pick and choose .

What part of our Constitution are you referring to?

 

[werepossum]

Here is what this guy did to earn the death penalty: A four-time felon, Lockett was convicted of shooting 19-year-old Stephanie Neiman with a sawed-off shotgun and watching as two accomplices buried her alive in rural Kay County in 1999 after Neiman and a friend arrived at a home the men were robbing.


I have zero compassion for him and hope he suffered painfully and miserably before death finally claimed him. These convicts and killers are not the types of people we should be rallying behind. This is a waste of resources and effort to rally behind them. They have forfeited their place in society and deserve anything bad coming to them.

Agreed, and damned well said.

We get it boomerang, you are uncivilized and don't agree with the bill of rights.

Maybe we could bring back crucifixion? Do you think you could fap to that?

Yes, clearly the civilized side is the one who wants to reward this animal in human form with three hots and a cot for his natural life. Oh, and conjugal visits and HBO and a weight room and . . .

I must oppose the death penalty except in cases where the suspect is absolutely certain. Under no circumstantial evidence.

I'd agree with that and raise you eyewitness testimony which unless the witnesses know the person is notoriously unreliable. There needs to be concrete scientific evidence coupled with mandatory draconian penalties for faking scientific evidence and withholding exculpatory evidence.

 

[Knowing]

8th amendment to the US Constitution

 

[TheSiege]

Except the debate here isnt about the consitution, is it? It's about "awww he suffered". Not "It was wrong he suffered because the law says he shouldnt". It's a different issue.

We SHOULD follow the constitution. Absolutely. I do think, as others have stated, that there is room for debate over what is cruel and unusual. I'd argue that life in prison is cruel and unusual.....but what's the alternative? Let's think about this. Terrible food. Horrible environment. Threat of violence and rape constantly. No members of the opposite sex again, ever.

That's TERRIBLE, really. But we arent worried about THAT, are we? No, because we take the attitude of "well then dont be a criminal if you dont want that." But somehow, suffering for a few minutes is cruel and unusual? MOreso than being stripped of not only freedom but of sex, of decent food, of in many cases basic human contact?

Dont lecture me about the constitution. If we're gonna follow it then let's friggin follow it. And if that;s the case then as far as I am concerned all the people calling for lifetime imprisonment are just as sadistic as many claim that death penalty supporters are.

If life in prison is so bad then why don't we hear about inmates begging for death? And why do we have people on death row fighting tooth and nail to avoid being executed. I'm not saying being put to death is cruel and unusual punishment I'm saying that someone having to suffer for 20+ minutes before they are put to death is cruel and unusual punishment. And I oppose the death penalty fundamentally because it's flawed it's not fool proof and there is a racial bias. When it comes to someone's life, especially when there is a chance they are innocent, I believe we shouldn't be so caviler about it.

 

[Subyman]

The guy was a real piece of shit, but that doesn't change what happened. The cocktail didn't choose not to work humanely on the guy because of karma. Therefore saying we shouldn't push for a more humane way of execution because the guy was a shitbag doesn't make any sense at all. No matter what the guy did, the way we execute someone is a direct reflection on the executioner (us) not the person being executed.

 

[schmuckley]

I don't understand why modern society is so against firing squads. It's instant, clean, and cheap.

Do it with an automated trigger or something, so no one even has to be involved. With lethal injection you still have a person activating the system.


Strap them in a chair that holds their head still and start a 5 minute timer that randomly shoots them.

I like this.

 

[chihlidog]

If life in prison is so bad then why don't we hear about inmates begging for death? And why do we have people on death row fighting tooth and nail to avoid being executed. I'm not saying being put to death is cruel and unusual punishment I'm saying that someone having to suffer for 20+ minutes before they are put to death is cruel and unusual punishment. And I oppose the death penalty fundamentally because it's flawed it's not fool proof and there is a racial bias. When it comes to someone's life, especially when there is a chance they are innocent, I believe we shouldn't be so caviler about it.

How much attention do you actually pay? If you did, you WOULD hear about criminals giving up on appeals. Prisoners wishing for death. Trying to committ suicide, rarely succeeding. What they all agree on is that prison is absolute hell.

 

[NetWareHead]

Well your wrong on the carbon monoxide, and I can testify first hand at this. We had an old house and had an old gas furnace that caused the house to flood with carbon monoxide. Damn near killed our whole family. I got headaches, threw up and couldn't figure out what was going on. Long story short, we had a friend figure out quickly what the issue was, and got us all out of the house. We were all sick as dogs that day. It took forever for my headache to go away. Carbon monoxide does not kill you that quickly. Nor painlessly either.

The concentration of CO you were breathing was highly diluted and you lived merely because of that. In an execution, the condemned would be breathing concentrated CO and the death would be far faster.

 

[TheSiege]

How much attention do you actually pay? If you did, you WOULD hear about criminals giving up on appeals. Prisoners wishing for death. Trying to committ suicide, rarely succeeding. What they all agree on is that prison is absolute hell.

Please cite your sources with stats.

 

[chihlidog]

Please cite your sources with stats.

What stats do you want? Percentages of people who try or succeed in committing suicide? I dont have 'em.

Why dont you check out some of these sites though. If someone actually needs to be convinced that prison is hell.

http://tommysilverstein.bravehost.com/

http://solitarywatch.com/

Or check out the doc on netflix called "solitary confinement"

Or watch "Lockup" on MSNBC. Older episodes especially that are focused on the state prisons rather than the local jails that are the focus of more recent episodes.

Or watch "Beyond Scared Straight"

There's a website I cant find that features documentation on conditions in the Texas system specifically. Wish I could find it right now. It's horrendous. DO I feel sorry for them? Should I? Is there a better solution? I dont have good answers. What I do know is that I dont want to REWARD them for their criminal acts, so making sure prison sucks seems to be the only alternative.

However, what I am hearing from you is that unless i can provide statistics that prisoners would rather die than be in prison, that prison is not cruel and unusual and as such does not violate the constitution. Am I hearing this correctly?

 

[Oldgamer]

8th amendment to the US Constitution

You do realize that just about everyone one of those amendments have been violated by the judicial and legislative processes right?

The constitution has no meaning in the US anymore...sigh

 

[Oldgamer]

The concentration of CO you were breathing was highly diluted and you lived merely because of that. In an execution, the condemned would be breathing concentrated CO and the death would be far faster.

No I had acute poisoning and so did my family. By the way you do realize that Carbon monoxide poisoning is a slow death even at concentrated levels? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

 

[Oldgamer]

If life in prison is so bad then why don't we hear about inmates begging for death? And why do we have people on death row fighting tooth and nail to avoid being executed. I'm not saying being put to death is cruel and unusual punishment I'm saying that someone having to suffer for 20+ minutes before they are put to death is cruel and unusual punishment. And I oppose the death penalty fundamentally because it's flawed it's not fool proof and there is a racial bias. When it comes to someone's life, especially when there is a chance they are innocent, I believe we shouldn't be so caviler about it.

Just google "inmates who commit suicide in prison" you come up with a shit ton of info. But I imagine your really not interested in doing that, am I right?

 

[irishScott]

Honestly I'm not sure why a bullet to the head is any less humane; cheaper, faster and you avoid shit like this.

Let's go back to that.

 

[irishScott]

If life in prison is so bad then why don't we hear about inmates begging for death? And why do we have people on death row fighting tooth and nail to avoid being executed. I'm not saying being put to death is cruel and unusual punishment I'm saying that someone having to suffer for 20+ minutes before they are put to death is cruel and unusual punishment. And I oppose the death penalty fundamentally because it's flawed it's not fool proof and there is a racial bias. When it comes to someone's life, especially when there is a chance they are innocent, I believe we shouldn't be so caviler about it.

And that's the issue. I'm all in favor of raising the standard of evidence needed to execute someone, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a death penalty. As for suffering for 20 minutes, a well placed rifle round to the head will end things so quickly they won't be able to feel it.

 

[NetWareHead]

No I had acute poisoning and so did my family. By the way you do realize that Carbon monoxide poisoning is a slow death even at concentrated levels? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

I understand that. You can get acute poisoning over a long period of time which is probably what happened to you. Look at the table here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Signs_and_symptoms

This entry: 12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2–3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.

If CO were to be used as a execution method, you can bet the condemned would be breathing this level of CO concentration or perhaps stronger to yield a quick death.