Its time to end capital punishment in America, Another botched execution tonight...

[cabri]

Its cruel when the lethal injection does not work, and the guy is there in agony. Regardless of what he allegedly did, he is still protected under the constitution. Its like when people freak out at lawyer who defend child molesters, as an American citizen they still have the right to representation no matter how heinous the crime. I don't see how people can be for certain parts of the Constitution and not others. 2nd Amendment, HELL YEAH, 8th Amendment, Fuck that.

But the thing that is most troublesome, to me, is the 4% problem, and as a black man, you are 2-3 times as likely to get the death penalty. Making the death penalty, unconstitutional right there. Violating the 14th amendment.

Please show/explain how this guy falls into the 4% category?

http://newsok.com/three-face-charges-in-perry-crime-spree/article/2656291

Michael McNutt • Modified: June 8, 1999 at 12:00 am • Published: June 8, 1999


PERRY - Three men accused of killing one of four people kidnapped during an aborted robbery attempt were charged Monday with 14 felony counts apiece.


Bond was denied for the three, who face charges of first-degree murder, rape, forcible sodomy, kidnapping, assault and battery, burglary and robbery.
Clayton Derrell Lockett, 23, and Alfonzo Laron Veasey Lockett, 17, both of Ponca City, and Shawn C. Mathis, 26, of Enid, also were charged with conspiracy to commit the crimes. The Locketts are cousins.
>>UPDATE: Execution failure in Oklahoma: Clayton Lockett's vein explodes, dies of heart attack (published April 29, 2014)
George Lockett Sr., Alfonzo Lockett's father, said his son and his nephew told him that Clayton Lockett shot and killed Stephanie Michelle Neiman, 18, who graduated last month from Perry High School. They also told him that Clayton Lockett forced the two others to take part in the crimes, Lockett told The Oklahoman .
George Lockett said Clayton Lockett told him "Alfonzo had no involvement in it and that he did everything."
George Lockett, who said he allowed Clayton Lockett to live with him after the nephew's release from prison in September, said Alfonzo Lockett made a bad decision in leaving with his older cousin.
Authorities said the crime spree started when Clayton Lockett drove the younger Lockett and Mathis to the Perry home of Bobby Lee Bornt, 23. Bornt owed Clayton Lockett money.
Bornt was tied up and beaten, authorities said. His 9-month-old son was in the house.
During the assault, Neiman and an 18-year-old friend stopped by Bornt's house, authorities said.
"It was bad timing," Perry police Lt. David Farrow said.
Neiman's female friend told authorities she was pulled into the house and hit in the face with a shotgun. With a gun at her head, she was forced to call Neiman inside, police were told.
Neiman also was hit with the shotgun and suffered a cut near her left eye, police were told.
"That was when the stuff really started getting out of hand," George Lockett said.

The young women were bound with duct tape. Neiman's friend was raped by all three men, authorities said.
Bornt and his son and the two women then were driven to rural Kay County, police said. Clayton Lockett told the captives he was going to kill them all, the surviving victims said.
Clayton Lockett told Neiman to get out of her pickup, and he shot her twice when she failed to give him her keys and the alarm code for the pickup, police were told.
Mathis told police he dug a grave for Neiman and buried her with Alfonzo Lockett's help.
The rape victim and Bornt told police they and Bornt's son then were brought back to Bornt's home.
The three men left in Bornt's pickup. The car Clayton Lockett drove to Perry apparently was stolen and was impounded by police when officers spotted it parked outside Bornt's duplex.
Jasper Lockett, 16, said his brother Alfonzo told him that Clayton Lockett threatened to kill him and Mathis if they went to police.
Police said Mathis and Alfonzo Lockett admitted they took part in the assault on Bornt and helped tie up the two women and drive them to rural Kay County.
Alfonzo Lockett showed authorities where Neiman was buried. Her mouth still was bound with duct tape, according to court records.
Clayton Lockett was released from prison last August. He was sentenced to four years in prison after pleading guilty in 1996 in Kay County to a charge of conspiracy to commit embezzlement.
In 1992, he pleaded guilty in Kay County to burglary and knowingly concealing stolen property. He received a seven-year prison sentence. Earlier that year, he pleaded no contest to two counts of intimidating state witnesses.
Jasper Lockett said Clayton Lockett picked up his brother Thursday night to take him to an Enid nightspot. He said he tried to tell Alfonzo, who recently was released from a juvenile detention center, not to go.
"He didn't leave with the purpose to kill somebody," Jasper Lockett said. "He said if they knew they were going to do that, he wouldn't have left. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was a bad choice."

 

[TheSiege]

Please show/explain how this guy falls into the 4% category?

http://newsok.com/three-face-charges-in-perry-crime-spree/article/2656291

I am not saying this specific case is an example of someone who is innocent, I am saying that his death was cruel. The 4% applies to everyone on deathrow. Just read the articles in the OP. Its not that hard.

 

[Oldgamer]

There are just too many flaws in our justice system with many corrupt individuals running it. We need to do away with the death penalty period. Way too many people are innocent and some get harsher sentences than others. One gets the death penalty while another walks away having committed the same if not worse offense. The majority of those who are killed on death row are black. The justice is tilted and african americans get far harsher sentencing, sometimes even get locked up for crimes they didn't commit. Yes, it is racial.

But aside from all that, is the very fact that so many have no human compassion (irregardless of the heinousness of the crime) the very fact that many want revenge, and torture is a sign of a psychopathic society.

 

[TheSiege]

There are just too many flaws in our justice system with many corrupt individuals running it. We need to do away with the death penalty period. Way too many people are innocent and some get harsher sentences than others. One gets the death penalty while another walks away having committed the same if not worse offense. The majority of those who are killed on death row are black. The justice is tilted and african americans get far harsher sentencing, sometimes even get locked up for crimes they didn't commit. Yes, it is racial.

But aside from all that, is the very fact that so many have no human compassion (irregardless of the heinousness of the crime) the very fact that many want revenge, and torture is a sign of a psychopathic society.

I have always said that the death penalty does not punish the criminal, it punishes their family. Their mother, wife, and kids. That is the main reason, I personally, cannot support it.

 

[Oldgamer]

I have always said that the death penalty does not punish the criminal, it punishes their family. Their mother, wife, and kids. That is the main reason, I personally, cannot support it.

That is so true. I feel sorry for the victims, and in all honesty if it were one of my own I would have a hard time not wanting revenge of some kind, but again our justice system is so flawed and we find out more everyday about heavy police coercion and tactics against the poor and minorities, putting innocent people in jail that we really just can't justify the death penalty any more.

In fact I read that it is more expensive to kill someone than it is to just give them a life sentence.

The other thing that bothers me is that someone may not be the killer directly, maybe just be a driver or in the wrong place at the wrong time, or associating with the wrong people and they get a death penalty. This is especially true if your black. I feel that the death penalty for folks like this is unjust because people do make mistakes in life. These folks should have a chance to make amends or attone in some way.

It makes no sense to have a society say murder is wrong, yet turn around and commit murder. It is hypocritical. It has been shown time and time again that the death penalty is not a deterrent of such crimes either.

 

[Darwin333]

This just boggles my mind. We have been killing each other with poisons for 1,000s of years and in this day in age, with our current medical knowledge, we manage to fuck it up this bad?

Isn't cyanide rather instant? What about Carbon Monoxide which at a high enough percentage (under 2%) causes unconsciousness in a few breaths and death within minutes. Really really hard to fuck that up in a controlled setting, people do it all the time with a friggen car and a closed garage because its so easy. You just go to sleep and die.

Edit: Not that I necessarily agree with the death penalty or our current use of it. I used to be a big proponent of it but just one fuck up is against the foundation of our justice system (better ten guilty go free than one innocent man be punished). Add to that fact that it actually costs more to put someone to death than incarcerating them for life, and it most definitely does not deter crime, I don't see the point.

 

[nehalem256]

Here, 1,560 cases over 30 years

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/dthrow.htm
"There is more than a two-fold greater risk that an African American who killed a white person will be executed than there is for a white person who killed a non-white victim."

So you changed at least 2 variables. The race of the killer and the race of the victim. And possibly many hidden ones such as the social class of the victim(and or killer).

Doesn't change the fact that overall a black person is not more likely to be executed than a white person per murder committed.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Fine. Don't really have a problem with this. However as was pointed out, it doesn't sound so much like the execution was botched as something unforeseen happened. It was not the intent of the staff performing the execution to make him suffer. As someone already pointed out, administering these drugs can be touchy. My son had a bad reaction to the drugs he was given when he had his wisdom teeth removed; wound up in the ER. We had an allergy test done to see which of the drugs caused the issue and the results were inconclusive. The doc changed the cocktail for the second attempt and all was well.

I did offer a pretty foolproof, humane way of executing people.

Who said I have a problem with firing squads, and or hangings? I have a problem with botched lethal injection.

Although I do have concerns with hangings as they don't always snap the neck quickly.

I also have problems with our rights being infringed including, the first, second, fourth, fifth, eighth, and others. But why does that matter in this thread?

Quite frankly capital punishment needs to go on hiatus until it can be guaranteed that no innocent people are executed.

 

[Pens1566]

I must oppose the death penalty except in cases where the suspect is absolutely certain. Under no circumstantial evidence.

This ^

 

[TheSiege]

So you changed at least 2 variables. The race of the killer and the race of the victim. And possibly many hidden ones such as the social class of the victim(and or killer).

Doesn't change the fact that overall a black person is not more likely to be executed than a white person per murder committed.

Argue semantics all you want the point is that there's a racial bias and it's been proven.

 

[nehalem256]

Argue semantics all you want the point is that there's a racial bias and it's been proven.

Arguing that you are violating the basics of the scientific method isn't semantics.

If you look hard enough you can find evidence of racial bias in anything.

At the most basic level a black person is not more likely to be executed based on the number of murders committed by black people. Racial bias not found.

 

[Oyeve]

Im an eye for an eye kinda guy. he should have been shot and buried alive. Karma is bitch tho.

 

[nehalem256]

I must oppose the death penalty except in cases where the suspect is absolutely certain. Under no circumstantial evidence.

This makes complete sense. There should be a standard above "beyond a reasonable doubt" required for the death penalty.

Seems like you could easily get a lot of death penalty supporters to agree to this. So I wonder why people who are so concerned about innocents being executed don't push for this?

 

[TheSiege]

Arguing that you are violating the basics of the scientific method isn't semantics.

If you look hard enough you can find evidence of racial bias in anything.

At the most basic level a black person is not more likely to be executed based on the number of murders committed by black people. Racial bias not found.

Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true I'll take a thirty-year study over your word on some forum. Don't be ignorant dude.

 

[TheSiege]

Arguing that you are violating the basics of the scientific method isn't semantics.

If you look hard enough you can find evidence of racial bias in anything.

At the most basic level a black person is not more likely to be executed based on the number of murders committed by black people. Racial bias not found.

Help me out here because you just contradicted yourself is there racial bias or isn't there?

 

[Slew Foot]

sounds like an iv blew.




yup, i was right. but holy shit 500mg of versed? wow, i use that stuff 1-2 mg at a time.

 

[nehalem256]

Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true I'll take a thirty-year study over your word on some forum. Don't be ignorant dude.

A black person is not more like to be given the death penalty for committing any given murder than a white a person is. This is simple fact.

Which is why you have to resort to using a small subset of cases to try and claim racial bias. And it isn't even clear if the bias is racial.

If a black drug dealing thug kills a white upstanding citizen is it surprising that the black guy is more likely to get the death penalty than if a white drug dealer kills a black drug dealer? Is that racial bias?

 

[Darwin333]

Firing squad is pretty humane and cheap.Ofc there's mental anguish for the people pulling the triggers.

Honest question: Is there somehow less mental anguish if you are injecting someone or even just pushing a button that fills a room with deadly gas? I would think the mental anguish from killing someone would be the same regardless of the method used.

 

[nehalem256]

Help me out here because you just contradicted yourself is there racial bias or isn't there?

Perhaps a better wording is racial discrepancy.

There is no racial discrepancy in terms of numbers of black/white executed per murder committed.

But if you did dig enough of course you can find some kind of discrepancy that can then be used to claim racial bias.

 

[TheSiege]

A black person is not more like to be given the death penalty for committing any given murder than a white a person is. This is simple fact.

Which is why you have to resort to using a small subset of cases to try and claim racial bias. And it isn't even clear if the bias is racial.

If a black drug dealing thug kills a white upstanding citizen is it surprising that the black guy is more likely to get the death penalty than if a white drug dealer kills a black drug dealer? Is that racial bias?

I cited a 30 year study with over 1500 cases proving a racial bias do you have any sort of source to back up your claim besides your messed up racist head

 

[werepossum]

He's dead so how is it a botched execution?

So what if the bastard suffered.

He shot a girl and watched his buddies bury her alive.

4-29-2014

http://news.yahoo.com/oklahoma-inmate-dies-execution-botched-005638821.html

Oklahoma inmate dies after execution is botched



Clayton Lockett, 38, was declared unconscious 10 minutes after the first of the state's new three-drug lethal injection combination was administered. Three minutes later, though, he began breathing heavily, writhing, clenching his teeth and straining to lift his head off the pillow.


The blinds were eventually lowered to prevent those in the viewing gallery from watching what was happening in the death chamber, and the state's top prison official eventually called a halt to the proceedings.



Lockett died of a heart attack a short time later, the Department of Corrections said.


Tuesday was the first time Oklahoma used the drug midazolam as the first element in its execution drug combination. Other states have used it before; Florida administers 500 milligrams of midazolam as part of its three-drug combination. Oklahoma used 100 milligrams.


The execution began at 6:23 p.m., when officials began administering the first drug, the sedative midazolam. A doctor declared Lockett to be unconscious at 6:33 p.m.


Once an inmate is declared unconscious, the state's execution protocol calls for the second drug, a paralytic, to be administered. The third drug in the protocol is potassium chloride, which stops the heart. Patton said the second and third drugs were being administered when a problem was noticed and it's unclear how much of the drugs made it into the inmate's system.


Lockett began writhing at 6:36. At 6:39, a doctor lifted the sheet that was covering the inmate to examine the injection site.


Lockett was declared dead at 7:06 p.m.

This, exactly. The execution wasn't botched, it just took the scenic route rather than the express lane. Though I'm all in favor of reinstating the firing squad rather than this silly multiple drug business.

 

[BoberFett]

The death penalty should be eliminated, not because it can go wrong, but because I don't trust the government to apply it properly.

 

[nehalem256]

Honest question: Is there somehow less mental anguish if you are injecting someone or even just pushing a button that fills a room with deadly gas? I would think the mental anguish from killing someone would be the same regardless of the method used.

Its a good question.

I think shooting someone seems more personal, and so a person might feel more guilt over it.

Its also more immediate, which might play a role.

Its kind of the same thing as shooting one person verse pushing a button to launch a missile that kills 100 people.

 

[nehalem256]

I cited a 30 year study with over 1500 cases proving a racial bias do you have any sort of source to back up your claim besides your messed up racist head

You cited a study showing: "There is more than a two-fold greater risk that an African American who killed a white person will be executed than there is for a white person who killed a non-white victim."

Racial discrepancy != racial bias.

And all you study would at most show is that there is a racial bias based on THE RACE OF THE VICTIM.

And of course race of the victim could easily really be the class of the victim.

 

[CitizenKain]

You can hear the death penalty supporters masturbating over this.