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It's Over; Boehner Wiffs on Cliff Plan B, Obama and Senate will get even better deal

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BoberFett said:
LOL, partisan morons. As if anything either party intends to do will have any other effect but to kick the can further down the road.

I'd love to see a solid Democrat supermajority across the board if for no other reason than to watch them scratch their heads while things continue to get worse, all the while trying to blame the impotent Republicans for everything.
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What do you think happened during 08-10? The Democrats got what they wanted with Obamacare and now every shortcoming of that legislation is republicans fault. That is my only problem with letting liberals burn the country down. They would never own the ashes.
 
Genx87 said:
What do you think happened during 08-10? The Democrats got what they wanted with Obamacare and now every shortcoming of that legislation is republicans fault. That is my only problem with letting liberals burn the country down. They would never own the ashes.
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Um wut? The lulz is strong with this one.
 
Fern said:
I question whether we'll see anything originating out of the Senate. The Constitution says these kind of bills must originate in the House. It also seems to me that Reid that has been completely absent in all this. All negotiations seem to be between Obama and Boehner. I guess I don't see that changing.

The other thing I don't see either is this whole attitude that something MUST be done BEFORE January 1st.

They can fix it later, it's just that higher income tax withholding will kick in on wages. I'm not sure about the automatic cuts though. I haven't properly kept up with the issue/details of that.

(Ninja) Edit: One other thing. It may be bad for the party as a whole, but these Reps in the House must first be concerned about keeping their own jobs. If you're going to lose re-election, screw the party would, I think, be the prevailing attitude.

Fern
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In practice revenue bills can and do originate in the senate. (for all functional purposes)
 
What I find funny is how everyone is basically in agreement that implementing conservative economics (closing the deficit) would be a catastrophe.
 
eskimospy said:
What I find funny is how everyone is basically in agreement that implementing conservative economics (closing the deficit) would be a catastrophe.
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I guess it just goes to show how fucked we really are. We're like an addict whose own biochemistry has become so dependent on the drug that to remove it would literally kill the addict. Sad.
 
hal2kilo said:
Probably more pipe than she sees at home with whats his name. The gay slayer.
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typical liberals - just personally attack people, destroy the individual, because you know you can't destroy the idea.

You libs have nothing else. Because your only idea is 'higher taxes'.
 
michal1980 said:
typical liberals - just personally attack people, destroy the individual, because you know you can't destroy the idea.

You libs have nothing else. Because your only idea is 'higher taxes'.
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She is a disgrace to MN and the vast majority of MN'ers know it. She was gerrymandered into keeping her seat. Her positions are hypocritical and laughable. It is somewhat amusing to see the GOP deal with her ilk now, they hitched their wagon to the Teabagger freaks and now are really f'd.
 
Everyone in this thread but me is blind. The GoP have pulled a master stroke here. If they pass Plan B now, it will be a tax hike. If they wait until the fiscal cliff topples over to pass it, it becomes a tax cut. It's all about the timing. Republicans can say they slashed taxes instead of raising them. Our lord and savior Norquist will be pleased. 🙂
 
Thump553 said:
Short term-say goodbye to Boehner, his tenure as Majority Leader in the House is over. A shiv in the back from Eric Cantor, most likely.

Short term-we are going over the cliff. Perhaps Boehner can cobble together a deal with moderate GOP and nearly all of the Dems to get something passed, but I doubt he has either the inclination or will to do so.

Long term-Congressional Budget Office says we will go from 2% growth this quarter to negative 3.9% next quarter after we go over the cliff. Yahoo, a new recession-and only a completely blind fool would blame anyone but the Congressional teabaggers for that result.

It's a shame our economy is being destroyed by these extremists over a self-made crisis. How were we as a people so stupid as to give them this power?
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so the senate comes back on dec 27.
when does the House come back to work?
 
The Tea Party is doing what we elected them to do, and that is to spend less and tax less.

Obama, is elected to do... well whatever you guys want him to do. Marry two guys. Suck a reefer or two, but don't bogart it. Give everyone money, etc.

-John
 
Zorkorist said:
The Tea Party is doing what we elected them to do, and that is to spend less and tax less.

Obama, is elected to do... well whatever you guys want him to do. Marry two guys. Suck a reefer or two, but don't bogart it. Give everyone money, etc.

-John
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So pretty much exactly what the Teabaggers want to do, except for they want to tell you what they want you to do and screw everything else. Ohh and BTW, they want to make sure that we spend more on killing people overseas than we do saving people here.

It's hilarious that teabaggers are so "libertarian" when it comes to corporate and wealthy welfare but so "religio-fascist" when it comes down to telling you what to do in your bedroom or giving only select people certain rights. Fucking fascists.
 
LegendKiller said:
So pretty much exactly what the Teabaggers want to do, except for they want to tell you what they want you to do and screw everything else. Ohh and BTW, they want to make sure that we spend more on killing people overseas than we do saving people here.

It's hilarious that teabaggers are so "libertarian" when it comes to corporate and wealthy welfare but so "religio-fascist" when it comes down to telling you what to do in your bedroom or giving only select people certain rights. Fucking fascists.
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You are the person that keeps advocating Government intervention in personal lives.

You do whatever you want, personally, just don't ask Government to do it with you.

-John
 
eskimospy said:
What's awesome about this is that apparently you believe the fiscal cliff is about excessive deficits, when it is actually about closing the deficit too quickly.

Lol.
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I, know what the Fiscal Cliff is, Eskimo.

I want it to happen.

It is the thing that can show the people their current reliance on Government.

Of course, the Government (and the people tat rely on them most directly) don't want to fall.

-John
 
Zorkorist said:
You are the person that keeps advocating Government intervention in personal lives.

You do whatever you want, personally, just don't ask Government to do it with you.

-John
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Yeah, you are nothing more than another "big government" type, you just want the government to tell everybody else what to do when it doesn't fit within your narrow viewpoint. That's why you just had to lead off with anti-gay and anti-pot bullshit.

"I am all for rights, but only those I want people to have".
 
lol, Legend Killer. You have no idea as to reality.

Reality is that when you empower Government, you lose persomal rights.

For example. 9/11 happened. We empowered Government with the Patriot Act, and Bush invaded Afghanistan and Iran.

Today, the Department of Homeland Security, searches your Grandmother as she boards a plane.

Papers please?

-John
 
Zorkorist said:
I, know what the Fiscal Cliff is, Eskimo.

I want it to happen.

It is the thing that can show the people their current reliance on Government.

Of course, the Government (and the people tat rely on them most directly) don't want to fall.

-John
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Why would it suddenly expose such an idea and why would this cause people or the government to fall?

You aren't making amy sense.
 
Personally, if I were Boehner I'd try to get revenge on the crazies that have been clawing at him since 2010. With friends like those who need enemies? I'd try to get that grand bargain Obama wanted in 2011 but completely give in on taxes since that original plan is basically off the table at this point and increasing the taxes of everything after 250k is pretty popular right now. The grand bargain plan is basically gone as it was, but I think capitulating on taxes and letting the President raise the debt limit without Congressional approval may be enough to get it back.

Basically, try to work something out that only requires 20 of his members to agree with and then spring it on the rest of his colleagues on the 29th. If he and Obama work out some great bargain, he puts the Tea Party members in a bind. They could get rid of him, but they'd have to oust the savior of the fiscal cliff who would be surrounded with positive media attention.
 
JEDI said:
so the senate comes back on dec 27.
when does the House come back to work?
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House comes back to work after the 2014 elections. The gridlock and stalemate in the next two years is going to dwarf what has already happened, as bizarre as that sounds. The chances of a fiscal cliff solution passing before the end of 2012 now appear near nill. Most of January will be spent patching together some half-assed solution. By the time that's done we will be on the threshold of reaching the debt limit again, with all the drama that holds. And so on.
 
rockyct said:
Personally, if I were Boehner I'd try to get revenge on the crazies that have been clawing at him since 2010. With friends like those who need enemies? I'd try to get that grand bargain Obama wanted in 2011 but completely give in on taxes since that original plan is basically off the table at this point and increasing the taxes of everything after 250k is pretty popular right now. The grand bargain plan is basically gone as it was, but I think capitulating on taxes and letting the President raise the debt limit without Congressional approval may be enough to get it back.

Basically, try to work something out that only requires 20 of his members to agree with and then spring it on the rest of his colleagues on the 29th. If he and Obama work out some great bargain, he puts the Tea Party members in a bind. They could get rid of him, but they'd have to oust the savior of the fiscal cliff who would be surrounded with positive media attention.
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You forget that Teahadists live in an alternate continuum (I almost typed "reality"), complete with their own media sources & groupthink feedback mechanisms. You also forget that they're astroturfed by Ultra Wealthy people who want to dismantle the govt, basically establish corporate rule.

You also seem to think that there's more substance to Boehner than personal ambition & power seeking. I don't. He'll take whatever path looks most likely to maintain his place as Speaker, regardless of other consequences. What you describe isn't that at all.
 
The other side wouldn't budge at all, even though my side didn't either?

Man, screw those guys!
 
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