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It's Over; Boehner Wiffs on Cliff Plan B, Obama and Senate will get even better deal

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This is disappointing news. However, I'm willing to bet that the ultimate deal will get a majority of Republican votes but not a majority of Democrat votes. The Dems are even more obstinate on social spending than the Reps are on taxes.
 
Xellos2099 said:
I am not seeing the issue with the cliff... tax need to go up AND SOCIAL service MUST to be cut. Specially those goddamn EIC those child breeder get each year, cut it all. Unless liberal feel the pain nothing will ever improve. Too much EIC, too much child tax credit, cut it all and maybe we can drop population for a bit. People will die and suffer, but all we are doing now is delaying the the truth. There will NOT be another internet boom, there will be housing crash and green energy crash.
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You do realize that EITC is actually really cheap in terms of the federal budget, right? And a net positive all things considered? Besides, the $ given for EITC is basically all recycled into the general economy almost immediately anyway, for goods and services, oiling the gears of the economy.

2011 EITC expenditures were 60.7 billion. And this money is almost universally spent here in the US after distribution.

http://costsofwar.org/

~4 Trillion and counting, and most of this $ was dumped in shitholes across the planet, for people that hate us, and where crap will be as bad or worse than ever when we leave.

Compare and contrast.
 
Arkaign said:
You do realize that EITC is actually really cheap in terms of the federal budget, right? And a net positive all things considered? Besides, the $ given for EITC is basically all recycled into the general economy almost immediately anyway, for goods and services, oiling the gears of the economy.

2011 EITC expenditures were 60.7 billion. And this money is almost universally spent here in the US after distribution.

http://costsofwar.org/

~4 Trillion and counting, and most of this $ was dumped in shitholes across the planet, for people that hate us, and where crap will be as bad or worse than ever when we leave.

Compare and contrast.
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Can u even guess how many of those people cheated on their tax to get the max amount of EIC?
 
Xellos2099 said:
Can u even guess how many of those people cheated on their tax to get the max amount of EIC?
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Cheating on taxes is massive at every level. It doesn't change the fundamentally low costs to high economic liquidity of the EITC.

How about the 92+ billion in Corporate Welfare, that's a fair bit larger than EITC.

How's CATO for a source :

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/corporate-welfare-federal-budget

To be fair, Obama is just as bad as Bush imho with the failed crony capitalism, wasteful war spending, and total corporate/banking ownership of the federal government.
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
It's almost as if Republicans have no idea that if we go over the fiscal cliff taxes go WAY up on EVERYONE.

Fucking morons.
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Yep, they twist and spin like mad, trying like hell to protect the wealthiest 2% while taking a shit on most of us. All to protest rates not even as high as they were under Reagan (taking CG into consideration).
 
I say bring on the taxes for everyone. Like people need plastic shit from walmart. Let's buckle down and get out of this mess.
 
First said:
Boehner can't bring his party together. Not particularly shocking given the fringe loonies occupying his party.
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No and its no surprise either..... OBAMA WANTS THINGS TO CRASH... (Its part of his grand plan)

When are people going to wake up and realise this??
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
It's almost as if Republicans have no idea that if we go over the fiscal cliff taxes go WAY up on EVERYONE.

Fucking morons.
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It doesn't affect them. They have more money than god along with the ones that support Republicans in here.

They are showing the Country how much they hate the America just like the Republicans that post in here everyday hate America.

So this is good.

Eventually Americans will band together against these America haters.
 
It's time to further empower the tea people within the GOP. Nurture these extremists. Make them devour the GOP. It will be glorious. Boehner's days are already numbered. Ensure that the next Speaker is Michelle Bachmann.
 
RabidMongoose said:
It's time to further empower the tea people within the GOP. Nurture these extremists. Make them devour the GOP. It will be glorious. Boehner's days are already numbered.

Ensure that the next Speaker is Michelle Bachmann.
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Yes, that would be awesome.

At least she is hot and good to look at versus Leather skinned Boehner.
 
After the election the repubs were always going to be manhandled over this. The party is weak and worthless at the moment.
 
It was misguided to shift attention to Plan B in the first place. Plan B sacrificed unity and it wasted time and worse it is somehting nobody expected to solve anything. It was used as a political manueuver, something both sides have done to much here, but something Plan B will ensure the repubs take most of the flack for. The country called for a solution from both sides, not for one side to make their own plan.

Unfortunate, obviously this is bad news for republicans and frankly the country needs some fiscal restraint that they can bring. But the repubs needed to make something happen with Obama and the 400k+ increase had the chance to be the start to a solution. Take the 400k+ and then move on spending cut considerations.

I was confident the two sides would come together for a solution here, this has come to a state that is worse than I would have imagined. The real thing the country needs now is a sign of unity to bring confidence and relief to the citizens. As much as the details of the plan are important, it is more important that both sides simply work together to achieve something. Gah, division is the worst thing for a nation and we have more of it now than we had yesterday and yesterday was worse than the day before. Maybe if this board can work together and unite in some way we can have some hope for a similar posibility from our politicians.
 
I find it strange that nearly ALL of the discussion in this thread has been about the political aspect of this deal, how the party is affected in this way, how the repubs are imploding, and how the election will clean them out in 2014, etc. etc. But nobody is actually spending any time talking about a concrete way to actually fix the fiscal cliff problem. Which just goes to show, Americans don't really care about anything other than drama. To you people this is just another reality TV show. The one guy in this thread who said that maybe taxes actually do need to go up and spending does need to be cut, gets immediately dismissed out of hand and labeled a tea bagger. Way to go AT Americans.
 
Triumph said:
I find it strange that nearly ALL of the discussion in this thread has been about the political aspect of this deal, how the party is affected in this way, how the repubs are imploding, and how the election will clean them out in 2014, etc. etc. But nobody is actually spending any time talking about a concrete way to actually fix the fiscal cliff problem. Which just goes to show, Americans don't really care about anything other than drama. To you people this is just another reality TV show. The one guy in this thread who said that maybe taxes actually do need to go up and spending does need to be cut, gets immediately dismissed out of hand and labeled a tea bagger. Way to go AT Americans.
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I think the efficiency and regularity with which the Republicans have been painting themselves into corners just overwhelms the larger discussion of the country's financial condition. Holding out for so long before and after the election has now brought the fruit of their monumental stupidity to full ripeness. Obama and the Democrats will now dictate the course of events. With the polling running heavily against the Republicans as to who the public will blame if the country goes over the cliff they are in the weakest position possible. The party's responsibility should have been to craft a reasonable compromise on cuts while they still had some political capital to burn. Instead they've pissed it all away on dislike for Obama and now refuse the acknowledge the reality of the situation. The final fallback is to blame the Democrats for whatever decisions end up being made now....it's self destructive to the party and bad for the country.

Sure the public at large is consumed by the drama. It's not everyday you get to see a modern political party eat itself alive.
 
Triumph said:
I find it strange that nearly ALL of the discussion in this thread has been about the political aspect of this deal, how the party is affected in this way, how the repubs are imploding, and how the election will clean them out in 2014, etc. etc. But nobody is actually spending any time talking about a concrete way to actually fix the fiscal cliff problem. Which just goes to show, Americans don't really care about anything other than drama. To you people this is just another reality TV show. The one guy in this thread who said that maybe taxes actually do need to go up and spending does need to be cut, gets immediately dismissed out of hand and labeled a tea bagger. Way to go AT Americans.
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Actually taxes should not go up right now and spending should increase, not decrease. If we are wedded to bad economics though, raising taxes on the top earners is the least bad way to do it. That has been debated to death though, why should they do it again just to appease your idea of seriousness?

This whole plan b thing was a joke from the start. It raised taxes on poor people while cutting them for the rich and it paid for defense spending we don't need with cuts from domestic programs. It was never a serious offer anyway.
 
Triumph said:
I find it strange that nearly ALL of the discussion in this thread has been about the political aspect of this deal, how the party is affected in this way, how the repubs are imploding, and how the election will clean them out in 2014, etc. etc. But nobody is actually spending any time talking about a concrete way to actually fix the fiscal cliff problem. Which just goes to show, Americans don't really care about anything other than drama. To you people this is just another reality TV show. The one guy in this thread who said that maybe taxes actually do need to go up and spending does need to be cut, gets immediately dismissed out of hand and labeled a tea bagger. Way to go AT Americans.
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The only way to fix the fiscal cliff "problem" is remove the Republicans creating it. It's an entirely artificial political construct much like the debt ceiling "problem."
 
Triumph said:
I find it strange that nearly ALL of the discussion in this thread has been about the political aspect of this deal, how the party is affected in this way, how the repubs are imploding, and how the election will clean them out in 2014, etc. etc. But nobody is actually spending any time talking about a concrete way to actually fix the fiscal cliff problem. Which just goes to show, Americans don't really care about anything other than drama. To you people this is just another reality TV show. The one guy in this thread who said that maybe taxes actually do need to go up and spending does need to be cut, gets immediately dismissed out of hand and labeled a tea bagger. Way to go AT Americans.
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We know that the answer is something like the Simpson Bowles plan. IMO at the end of the day the real sticking point is going to be spending not taxes because the interest groups that benefit from spending tend to be quite powerful.
 
the DRIZZLE said:
We know that the answer is something like the Simpson Bowles plan. IMO at the end of the day the real sticking point is going to be spending not taxes because the interest groups that benefit from spending tend to be quite powerful.
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And the democrats came out against spending cuts. No touching medicare, no touching social security. The only thing they know how to do is raise taxes.
 
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