It's Over; Boehner Wiffs on Cliff Plan B, Obama and Senate will get even better deal

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/fiscal-cliff-house-boehner-plan-b_n_2341539.html

HuffPost reference because I know you conservatives will appreciate.

WASHINGTON -- House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) failed to muscle a controversial fiscal cliff
fallback plan through the House Thursday night, suddenly pulling the bill after spending almost week on a plan that Democrats called a waste of time.

"The House did not take up the tax measure today because it did not have sufficient support from our members to pass," Boehner said in a statement. "Now it is up to the president to work with Senator Reid on legislation to avert the fiscal cliff. The House has already passed legislation to stop all of the January 1 tax rate increases and replace the sequester with responsible spending cuts that will begin to address our nation's crippling debt. The Senate must now act."

The failure to bring the measure to a vote marks a setback for Boehner, who was unable to marshal enough of his fractious, Tea Party-inspired members. Meanwhile, the nation moves closer to the so-called fiscal cliff, after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) declared earlier Thursday that the Senate will recess Friday until two days after Christmas.

That would leave less than five full days to find a way around the cliff, which Congress itself created by mandating in last year's debt-ceiling agreement that some $1 trillion in budget cuts start kicking in after Jan. 1. That's also when Congress has mandated that all of the Bush-era tax cuts from 2001 and 2003 expire.

Boehner's bill aimed to keep all the tax cuts for those earning less than $1 million a year -- a scheme similar to what Democrats had backed two years ago, when they were unable to get the GOP to budge at all on taxes.

Democrats opposed Boehner's plan because it did not include many provisions that were included in their version. They argued that the Plan B bill would end some tax cuts for the middle class -- worth on average about $1,000 a year -- while it actually preserved some tax breaks for millionaires worth approximately $50,000. On top that, Democrats campaigned -- and won -- on keeping taxes lower for those with incomes of less than $250,000.

The House did pass one part of Boehner's fallback -- a bill to cut spending by $200 billion, mostly by slashing domestic programs, including favorite GOP targets such as health care and food stamps.

Democratic leaders said the whole effort was a futile display that drew the nation closer to the fiscal cliff. They argued that Boehner should work more closely with Obama on a real solution.

"The reason we're here is because our Republican colleagues refuse to compromise," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.). "We are wasting the people's time."

Boehner stood by his strategy as recently as Thursday afternoon, insisting that the Senate would have to give his bill a vote.

If Boehner's bill had passed, it would have marked a shift in the GOP's absolute opposition of all tax hikes, and offering a ray of hope that the two sides could come together. With time running out, however, it would be difficult for Democrats and Republicans to agree on a plan that Boehner could get his stalwart Tea Party members to sign.

Still, the attempt was strongly opposed by Democrats, and Republicans can tell their anti-tax base that holding the purist line on taxes is impossible because of the utter rejection of Plan B by the other party.

"We're showing that we don't have a partner in the White House and we don't have a partner in this body," said Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.).

Republicans have admitted that the whole equation changes after Jan. 1, when tax rates default back to the Clinton era. The debate then would no longer be about raising taxes, but about lowering them, and the GOP would have few options to stop Democrats from passing their middle class tax break. Then, cutting a deal on taxes -- if not spending -- becomes relatively easy, and likely would be accomplished quickly.

"If we go over the fiscal cliff, the president just comes back and says, 'Ok, we're going to give tax cuts to everybody under 250,000.' Who's going to vote against that? Everybody'll vote for that. Everybody," Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) said shortly before the votes. "It will be just a fait accompli. You won't be voting on whether you're going to do away with a tax cut, you're going to be reimposing tax cuts for everybody under 250,000. So the Republicans are in an untenable situation."

Boehner can't bring his party together. Not particularly shocking given the fringe loonies occupying his party.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
He's not going to get anything passed in the House without the Democrats. Too many Tea Partiers who refuse to let taxes go up for anyone, so they'll let them go up for everyone instead. :rolleyes:

Should also mention that a successful deal (ie one that will raise revenue and also curb Medicaid/Medicare so they don't consume our entire budget in the near future) will also piss off plenty of Democrats.

In the end, I think there will be plenty of "no" votes from both parties, although maybe Obama can convince most of the Democrats to get behind a deal.
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
The Republicans screwed up by not cutting a deal months ago.

It cost them in the election, and it will continue to make them look foolish.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Republicans have admitted that the whole equation changes after Jan. 1, when tax rates default back to the Clinton era. The debate then would no longer be about raising taxes, but about lowering them, and the GOP would have few options to stop Democrats from passing their middle class tax break. Then, cutting a deal on taxes -- if not spending -- becomes relatively easy, and likely would be accomplished quickly.

"If we go over the fiscal cliff, the president just comes back and says, 'Ok, we're going to give tax cuts to everybody under 250,000.' Who's going to vote against that? Everybody'll vote for that. Everybody," Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) said shortly before the votes. "It will be just a fait accompli. You won't be voting on whether you're going to do away with a tax cut, you're going to be reimposing tax cuts for everybody under 250,000. So the Republicans are in an untenable situation."

Holy fuck yes, this is the way to go. Obama and the democrats will have 100 times the leverage to ONLY cut taxes for the middle class

Bring on the fiscal cliff, fuck the GOP in the ass!

Good job GOP, you fucking babies. If you weren't such extremist dicks, you could have gotten something out of this.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
These fucking fools are such a joke. They wanted a "big deal" with the fiscal cliff and tried to hang Obama with a shit economy. The country rejected their faux conservatism and stupid social jackassness and they just keep showing how out of touch they are. They should have drove to cut a deal with Obama right after the election to show they were trying to be the moderate voices. Instead they tried to call Obama's bluff and he didn't flinch.

Now they are toast, they can either go down as the party which destroyed the economy or they can cut a deal that Obama wants. Either way the moderates lose. If they had cut a deal before they blew their load they might have been able to get a more fiscally responsible deal.

They need to eject the Teabaggers from the party, promote the moderates and go back to actually being fiscally conservative and socially moderate.
 
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Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
Maybe a cliff is needed after all. There is never a deal where democart will cut social benefit.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,999
109
106
I wonder if the new makeup of the House would give Boehner the votes for "Plan B". The GOP regrettably will still have a majority, albeit a slightly smaller one. Unfortunately for them, the cliff is here and they simply don't know when to fold 'em.

This election combined with the fiscal cliff has been one epic fart for the GOP - one that they gambled on and lost.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Maybe a cliff is needed after all. There is never a deal where democart will cut social benefit.

A deal will get struck, it won't be what the country needs in the long-term but it will get struck. I think it would have been better if they'd have done it right after the election, that way they could have had time to paint Obama as the obstructionist if they had put out something more reasonable with tax increases and social cuts. Now they are branded and know it. They can either accept the fact that they failed or lose the White House for the next 12 years and potentially Congress too.

They will be scared shitless of being out of power for over a decade. They'll cut a deal and try to regroup.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Ah, the GOP once again showing how much they care about America.

By trying to fuck it to death.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,999
109
106
A deal will get struck, it won't be what the country needs in the long-term but it will get struck. I think it would have been better if they'd have done it right after the election, that way they could have had time to paint Obama as the obstructionist if they had put out something more reasonable with tax increases and social cuts. Now they are branded and know it. They can either accept the fact that they failed or lose the White House for the next 12 years and potentially Congress too.

They will be scared shitless of being out of power for over a decade. They'll cut a deal and try to regroup.

I....just don't know about that. The tea-party faction of the GOP is so entrenched in their anti-tax absolutism that they may not have the votes to "cut a deal and regroup". It seems that many would like to push their hard line knowing they would fail (leaving Democrats' plan the only game in town) in the hopes of saying "I told you so" later on. If you accept for a moment that their position and rhetoric are correct - that the democratic position would make the country go under - then it becomes even scarier. They would sell their country out just for political gain.

I hope that I am wrong here. I really do. I just don't hold out much hope that the current makeup of the GOP will let cooler heads prevail and compromise be reached. I will gladly eat crow if this does not come to pass and a reasonable deal is struck.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I....just don't know about that. The tea-party faction of the GOP is so entrenched in their anti-tax absolutism that they may not have the votes to "cut a deal and regroup". It seems that many would like to push their hard line knowing they would fail (leaving Democrats' plan the only game in town) in the hopes of saying "I told you so" later on. If you accept for a moment that their position and rhetoric are correct - that the democratic position would make the country go under - then it becomes even scarier. They would sell their country out just for political gain.

I hope that I am wrong here. I really do. I just don't hold out much hope that the current makeup of the GOP will let cooler heads prevail and compromise be reached. I will gladly eat crow if this does not come to pass and a reasonable deal is struck.

Sure, they might try to do that, but I think that most of them realize they'd be shooting themselves in the dick. If they do that they won't be "getting any" for the next 12 years.
 

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2006
1,573
5
81
These fucking fools are such a joke. They wanted a "big deal" with the fiscal cliff and tried to hang Obama with a shit economy. The country rejected their faux conservatism and stupid social jackassness and they just keep showing how out of touch they are. They should have drove to cut a deal with Obama right after the election to show they were trying to be the moderate voices. Instead they tried to call Obama's bluff and he didn't flinch.

Now they are toast, they can either go down as the party which destroyed the economy or they can cut a deal that Obama wants. Either way the moderates lose. If they had cut a deal before they blew their load they might have been able to get a more fiscally responsible deal.

They need to eject the Teabaggers from the party, promote the moderates and go back to actually being fiscally conservative and socially moderate.

This x 100. I don't understand the Republican logic; they failed to convince enough voters that Romney was better than Obama (especially on the economy / creating jobs), and they're still playing into the "spoil the rich; stiff the rest" caricature.

The Republicans would have been better off tweaking Bob Corker's plan....it allowed high earners' tax rates to rise but coupled that with a host of changes including capping deductions, and altering the cost of living index.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I....just don't know about that. The tea-party faction of the GOP is so entrenched in their anti-tax absolutism that they may not have the votes to "cut a deal and regroup". It seems that many would like to push their hard line knowing they would fail (leaving Democrats' plan the only game in town) in the hopes of saying "I told you so" later on. If you accept for a moment that their position and rhetoric are correct - that the democratic position would make the country go under - then it becomes even scarier. They would sell their country out just for political gain.

I hope that I am wrong here. I really do. I just don't hold out much hope that the current makeup of the GOP will let cooler heads prevail and compromise be reached. I will gladly eat crow if this does not come to pass and a reasonable deal is struck.

Repubs are just delusional, so I wouldn't put any credence in their projections. Even if all the Bush tax cuts are rescinded, it won't damage the economy nearly as much as the spending cuts of the austerity bomb. Every tax dollar goes right back into the economy, one way or another, but spending cuts reduce the amount going into the economy, plain & simple.

Whatever happens, Repubs will end up wearing the negative effects, because they chose to force it to come to this. Public awareness is quite keen on this point, because of Repub grandstanding, preening, posturing & pandering. It's a huge deal because they made it one. If we get a double dip recession, they'll be massacred in 2014.

If Dems can properly craft & push a tax & spending bill that will somewhat reverse the negative effects, Repubs may just be fools enough to stand against it, setting themselves up for the same sort of hit in the midterms. If they don't, they'll get the Teahadist revolt.

Boehner's place as Speaker is very much in doubt, with Cantor & the Teahadists ready to strike. If that happens, they'll nail the Party's coffin shut from the inside.

Their base can't & won't figure it out, of course, because they still adhere to what really is failed ideology.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
A deal will get struck, it won't be what the country needs in the long-term but it will get struck. I think it would have been better if they'd have done it right after the election, that way they could have had time to paint Obama as the obstructionist if they had put out something more reasonable with tax increases and social cuts. Now they are branded and know it. They can either accept the fact that they failed or lose the White House for the next 12 years and potentially Congress too.

They will be scared shitless of being out of power for over a decade. They'll cut a deal and try to regroup.

They should have done it last year. Then they might of won.

Instead they went all in on obstruction and lost.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
That small group in the house that think they are, and own, America.
Voters could have fixed this once and for all in the last election. But they didn't.
Voters can wait until 2014 and fix it then. But they won't.
In the mean time... Republicans in state legislation will do everything possible to rig the system so that this type of insanity continues on and on, forever more.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
They should have done it last year. Then they might of won.

Instead they went all in on obstruction and lost.

I meant that just after the election was their last chance. Now they will be foisted by their own petard.

Obama has been playing chess while they have been playing checkers. That's what you get by courting Caribou Barbie, Bachmann and Teabagger clowns.
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
I am not seeing the issue with the cliff... tax need to go up AND SOCIAL service MUST to be cut. Specially those goddamn EIC those child breeder get each year, cut it all. Unless liberal feel the pain nothing will ever improve. Too much EIC, too much child tax credit, cut it all and maybe we can drop population for a bit. People will die and suffer, but all we are doing now is delaying the the truth. There will NOT be another internet boom, there will be housing crash and green energy crash.
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I am not seeing the issue with the cliff... tax need to go up AND SOCIAL service MUST to be cut. Specially those goddamn EIC those child breeder get each year, cut it all. Unless liberal feel the pain nothing will ever improve. Too much EIC, too much child tax credit, cut it all and maybe we can drop population for a bit. People will die and suffer, but all we are doing now is delaying the the truth. There will NOT be another internet boom, there will be housing crash and green energy crash.

Sigh...
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
DJIA futures down 200+. Oops.

I'm not that surprised. The market has been operating on the assumption that a deal would be made all along (I was a bit more pessimistic and missed some pretty decent gains). Even if a deal had been made, there probably still would have been some selling/profit-taking.

Question is: Where is the floor? How much optimism was priced into the markets?