It Looks Like Trump is Gearing up for a Presidential Run (2024).

[vi edit]

My stance is he's unelectable because of his actions of the last two years. Nothing more than that.

 

[fskimospy]

My stance is he's unelectable because of his actions of the last two years. Nothing more than that.

The person with the best chance of winning in 2024 is probably someone who makes the Democratic base mad a decent amount of the time. I'm not saying Manchin is that guy, but I would say he has a much better chance than someone like Bernie or Warren (and I love both of them!)

 

[Pens1566]

Manchin is both incredibly dumb (not a generalization, he's legitimately stupid) and brazenly corrupt. I say this as someone from WV that has close connections to both a young Joe and the degree scandal that his daughter was involved in.

He will do nothing that his coal funded owners don't tell him to do.

We can do better.

 

[SMOGZINN]

What evidence do you have of Manchin attempting to dismantle our democracy?

He has continually leveraged his unique position of power for his own gain even to the detriment of our Republic. If given even more power I would expect him to only do the same on a larger scale.

 

[Pens1566]

He has continually leveraged his unique position of power for his own gain even to the detriment of our Republic. If given even more power I would expect him to only do the same on a larger scale.

This ^.

Manchin is Appalachian for "grift".

 

[fskimospy]

He has continually leveraged his unique position of power for his own gain even to the detriment of our Republic. If given even more power I would expect him to only do the same on a larger scale.

Man if that's what you don't like about Joe Manchin you're going to be really mad when you hear about this Donald Trump guy.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Man if that's what you don't like about Joe Manchin you're going to be really mad when you hear about this Donald Trump guy.

I've already said that Trump is the same, only dumber and lazier. I'll take the dumb lazy criminal over the smart motivated one.

 

[fskimospy]

I've already said that Trump is the same, only dumber and lazier. I'll take the dumb lazy criminal over the smart motivated one.

Trump is not the same or even remotely close to the same. Your argument is that you would prefer Trump seize the presidency because you think Manchin is not doing enough to stop Trump from seizing the presidency. This makes no sense. This case will almost certainly never come to pass so it doesn't matter that much but if it did I hope you would come to your senses.

Trump tried a coup. Manchin has not. That's as big a difference as there can be and attempting to equate the two is risible nonsense.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Kamala is not exciting but Manchin is exciting?

 

[MrSquished]

Joe Manchin is not a mentally ill criminal.

Next question?

Of course I agree that Manchin is way better than Trump, but even so he will be a really really tough sell to any of the progressive base and I understand why. Way way way more than Biden was. The Democrats MUST do better than Manchin.

 

[alien42]

I've heard talk about J. B. Pritzker recently.

 

[K1052]

I've heard talk about J. B. Pritzker recently.

I could live with this.

 

[eelw]

The Democrats MUST do better than Manchin.

But no matter how crappy, still better off than voting R

 

[fskimospy]

Of course I agree that Manchin is way better than Trump, but even so he will be a really really tough sell to any of the progressive base and I understand why. Way way way more than Biden was. The Democrats MUST do better than Manchin.

Exactly - Manchin is not my pick by any measure but in the end I will be voting for the winner of the Democratic primary no matter who it is because no one that comes out of that process is going to try and destroy our democracy.

 

[nakedfrog]

Manchin needs to run. He's one of the only Democrats that all sides would throw votes at. Love or hate the guy, he could knock off Trump or DeSantis.

You're fucking mental.

 

[Pens1566]

Manchin will lose more progressive votes than he gains from IND/moderates/republicans.

Don't kid yourself.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

When your only prospect of winning is due to a “Sophie’s Choice” decision it can’t be good.
If the choice was Donald Trump or Joe Manchin I guess I’d pick Joe.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Trump is not the same or even remotely close to the same. Your argument is that you would prefer Trump seize the presidency because you think Manchin is not doing enough to stop Trump from seizing the presidency. This makes no sense. This case will almost certainly never come to pass so it doesn't matter that much but if it did I hope you would come to your senses.

Trump tried a coup. Manchin has not. That's as big a difference as there can be and attempting to equate the two is risible nonsense.

Manchin does not care about Trump trying to seize the presidency, because he sees no way to profit off it. If he did I do not doubt he would have done whatever benefited him the most. Manchin has never been in a situation to try a coup, and I for one would never vote to give him the opportunity because if he was in that position he would not half ass it.

I understand what you are saying, but I am simply too close to 'The Democrats have failed at everything I care about' to withstand them running Manchin as a presidential candidate. It would be the final proof that they are not even trying anymore, and that any pretense as liberalism or progress is just the carrot on the stick to get us to vote for them. I for one am smart enough to know that you never get the carrot, only the stick.

One thing we can agree with is that this whole scenario is unlikely enough not to bother arguing over any further. Let's get back on topic.

 

[fskimospy]

Manchin does not care about Trump trying to seize the presidency, because he sees no way to profit off it. If he did I do not doubt he would have done whatever benefited him the most. Manchin has never been in a situation to try a coup, and I for one would never vote to give him the opportunity because if he was in that position he would not half ass it.

I understand what you are saying, but I am simply too close to 'The Democrats have failed at everything I care about' to withstand them running Manchin as a presidential candidate. It would be the final proof that they are not even trying anymore, and that any pretense as liberalism or progress is just the carrot on the stick to get us to vote for them. I for one am smart enough to know that you never get the carrot, only the stick.

One thing we can agree with is that this whole scenario is unlikely enough not to bother arguing over any further. Let's get back on topic.

I sincerely hope that’s not the case because what you’re saying here is insane.

 

[vi edit]

I could live with this.

Oh jeez...can't wait for the comparisons... Pritzker doesn't seem to be scared of anyone...so that's cool. But this is like looking at some weird timeline where one candidate is running against an older, heavier version of himself.

 

[Zor Prime]

Manchin will lose more progressive votes than he gains from IND/moderates/republicans.

Don't kid yourself.

I dunno. Manchin is elected by Republicans. Indepedents would be prone to vote for someone who's suspiscioned of making less of mess of things in general, and Manchin would likely bring things back to center and reduce division which would pull that vote. Then there's all of the moderate Democrats which are his actual base. Manchin is a win across the board. Just having a D by his name will get the progressive vote, because who else would they vote for ... Trump or DeSantis? And what are people gonna do, dislike Manchin enough to allow Trump a second term or Trump on Steroids(tm) AKA DeSantis? No. I'm not saying he's the best bet, just that he could win ... probably even should win.

 

[Pens1566]

I dunno. Manchin is elected by Republicans. Indepedents would be prone to vote for someone who's suspiscioned of making less of mess of things in general, and Manchin would likely bring things back to center and reduce division which would pull that vote. Then there's all of the moderate Democrats which are his actual base. Manchin is a win across the board. Just having a D by his name will get the progressive vote, because who else would they vote for ... Trump or DeSantis? And what are people gonna do, dislike Manchin enough to allow Trump a second term or Trump on Steroids(tm) AKA DeSantis? No. I'm not saying he's the best bet, just that he could win ... probably even should win.

Manchin is elected by republicans that 6-10 years ago were democrats. They vote for him because he's a name they recognize as a good old boy from just down the holler, and because he promises them that coal (with all of ~15k coal or coal related jobs in state) is still #1, and they're stupid enough to believe it.

< WV born and raised. I live in what used to be his district. This is the same state that overwhelmingly voted for Jim Justice when he was still a democrat and then did the same thing when he abruptly switched parties. It's less about party ID and more about who is a good old boy that tells them things will stay the same. That's not gonna work outside this hillbilly version of the upside-down.

As for getting the progressive vote just because there's a D beside his name ... if that were the case we'd be well into Hillary's second term but the Bernie-bros stayed home. And she's a much more mainstream D than Joe is.

 

[sportage]

He could start with DeSantis being a rapist and murder since he thinks that about Mexicans.

Or because DeSantis is Mexican, he is incapable of doing his job

OH F.... DeSantis is a Mexican, you say?
Oh no. That will never fly with the American electorate.
Do other people realize this, that DeSantis is a Mexican?
Let me grasp this. Trump wants to build a wall to keep Mexican's out, and DeSantis, a Mexican himself, wants to be the United States president?
Holy guacamole Blanch.... I think Joe Biden just got re-elected.

 

[nakedfrog]

I dunno. Manchin is elected by Republicans. Indepedents would be prone to vote for someone who's suspiscioned of making less of mess of things in general, and Manchin would likely bring things back to center and reduce division which would pull that vote. Then there's all of the moderate Democrats which are his actual base. Manchin is a win across the board. Just having a D by his name will get the progressive vote, because who else would they vote for ... Trump or DeSantis? And what are people gonna do, dislike Manchin enough to allow Trump a second term or Trump on Steroids(tm) AKA DeSantis? No. I'm not saying he's the best bet, just that he could win ... probably even should win.

I'm always hearing about how the Democrats have a messaging problem.
Here's the message that sends: "Manchin: Because we fucking said so, you little bitches, cry about it"

 

[MrSquished]

Exactly - Manchin is not my pick by any measure but in the end I will be voting for the winner of the Democratic primary no matter who it is because no one that comes out of that process is going to try and destroy our democracy.

You and I may do that... but the problem is a lot of progressives will refuse to hold their nose and vote for Manchin. I think now they realize that Hilary was acceptable and they made a mistake, but she is miles better than Manchin.