Credits for many of the images are included here:
http://www.bubbleshare.com/alb...4700/overview#17968596
They are by well known war potographers for Associated Press - I suspect, if you contacted them, they could provide credits for all the images.
Here is an example:
Album photo: 7 of 753
Three Palestinian children from the Balosha family, of five who were all killed in the same Israeli missile strike, are seen in the morgue before their burial at Kamal Edwan hopsital in Beit Lahiya, northern Gaza Strip, Monday, Dec. 29, 2008. Israel's overwhelming air campaign against the Gaza Strip inched closer to the territory's Hamas rulers as the assault entered its third day Monday, as missiles struck a house next to the Hamas premier's home and destroyed symbols of the Islamic movement's power. (AP Photo/Eyad Baba)
Now pay up.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
It is a matter of perceived priorities.
Hamas has aptly demonstrated that they can import weapons; yet are also willing to confiscate food being distributed by relief organizations.
Why can they not import food the way they do weapons?
Have you ever tried to feed over a million people? Have you been to Palestine, have you seen how they live. The media multiplies the weapons that they have. They make you think that they have weapons to kill so many israelis. The truth is all of those rockets killed 11 people over 8 years, less than one Israeli killed per year. The Gaza offensive killed an additional 11 Israelis I believe 4 from friendly fire.
Yet that same offensive in 3 weeks killed 1400+ people. If Hamas has all those weapons they would have been able to at least put up a fight. The ratio was greater than 100:1.
The truth of the situation is a land grab. Israel realizes the population of Palestinians is growing much much faster than Israeli's. They are doing everything they can to stop that and discourage people from living there.
Please go and visit the region before you make an opinion and regurgitate what you here on the news.
Yet that same offensive in 3 weeks killed 1400+ people. If Hamas has all those weapons they would have been able to at least put up a fight. The ratio was greater than 100:1.
The truth of the situation is a land grab. Israel realizes the population of Palestinians is growing much much faster than Israeli's. They are doing everything they can to stop that and discourage people from living there.
Please go and visit the region before you make an opinion and regurgitate what you here on the news.
So you mean the place where my parents, and my grand parents, and great grand parents, etc etc etc where born and raised does not exist? That means I don't exist and yet i'm typing to you. Palestine is very real
Go back to a map dated prior to 1938. That is all I can tell you. If you still can't read it go back to elementary school and retake geography class where they taught you how to read maps.
So what you are saying is that it no longer exists. And then adding an insult like it is my fault it no longer exists.
Gotcha.
It will exist once again shortly. The entire world is calling for a Palestinian State. Its only a matter of time now. Palestinians aren't going anywhere
I personally believe it is inevitable. The Palestinian population is growing at what some pro zionist call, "an alarming rate". Current Israeli political decisions are trying to segregate the Palestinians that are Israeli citizens out as well. I believe this means that Israel is worried.
In my opinion the biggest reason that Israel is what it is today is because of the pro Israeli lobby in the US. The Jewish people have had a 3 generation head start but now arabs in America are gaining more prominent positions at a much larger rate than Jewish people.
I believe another reason is that Israel is losing its PR war. They blundered in Lebanon in 06 and they blundered again in Gaza. Its obvious to the world why they refused to allow the media in Gaza and almost every human rights group has condemned them for their actions, including human rights groups in Israel. Soldiers in the IDF are starting to "Break the Silence". They are giving interviews where they were directly ordered to kill and destroy at their own whim.
Now Israel has nuclear weapons so they aren't going anywhere. But they better have contingency plan because if a country like the UK cut their arms exports to them, even if very slightly, they have to realize they are going down a very slippery slope.
Personally I cannot wait for the day I can go to the city my parents where born in and walk the streets without a worry in the world about being indiscriminately shot at or arrested, even though I'm a US citizen. I would love for my father to show me where he played with his friends when he was a child. But I can't. My own parents refuse to go back because its to dangerous. Both sides of my family have fled in order to give their children a better future.
This is a great topic for discussion. I like it must better than the usual who is right, who is wrong, stupid discussion of whatever stupid fight happened in the middle east this week.
While the US has been of great aid to Israel over the years, and provided many weapons to them, much of the success comes from having a highly trained, required, defense force. They are some of the best trained troops in the world from reports I've read.
Also, as much as the US has helped them in combat, many times when they were closest to taking major cities, or setting up shop so to speak in cities that had enemy combatants in, they have been asked to pull back or negotiate by the US as well. The United States seems to play whatever side of the coin is most advantageous to them many times.
Now, when you mention that they need a contingency plan, do you think they would be under assault? Just want to make sure I understand you. Anyhow, a nation of Israel's size and with their stable + growing economy could do quite well on it's own. It needs allies for the purpose of ensuring a (mostly) peaceful relationship with other neighbor states, some who still don't respect their right to exist. Either way, a nuclear state doesn't go away no matter how bad someone might want it. Look at North Korea!
Anyhow, I hope that you do get to return to that area and see your homeland. But I really wish that both sides would stop focusing on whether it is Israeli or Palestinian land and share it. I'd like to see peace in the region, but like so much of the middle east, vigilante justice and sect based violence seems to be the most prevalent obstacle to that.
Originally posted by: TruePaige
This is a great topic for discussion. I like it must better than the usual who is right, who is wrong, stupid discussion of whatever stupid fight happened in the middle east this week.
While the US has been of great aid to Israel over the years, and provided many weapons to them, much of the success comes from having a highly trained, required, defense force. They are some of the best trained troops in the world from reports I've read.
Also, as much as the US has helped them in combat, many times when they were closest to taking major cities, or setting up shop so to speak in cities that had enemy combatants in, they have been asked to pull back or negotiate by the US as well. The United States seems to play whatever side of the coin is most advantageous to them many times.
Now, when you mention that they need a contingency plan, do you think they would be under assault? Just want to make sure I understand you. Anyhow, a nation of Israel's size and with their stable + growing economy could do quite well on it's own. It needs allies for the purpose of ensuring a (mostly) peaceful relationship with other neighbor states, some who still don't respect their right to exist. Either way, a nuclear state doesn't go away no matter how bad someone might want it. Look at North Korea!
Anyhow, I hope that you do get to return to that area and see your homeland. But I really wish that both sides would stop focusing on whether it is Israeli or Palestinian land and share it. I'd like to see peace in the region, but like so much of the middle east, vigilante justice and sect based violence seems to be the most prevalent obstacle to that.
When I said contingency plan I meant that many countries don't want Israel there. I wouldn't walk into a predominantly African American neighborhood and scream racial slurs. All i'm saying is they haven't made to many friends in the region. Personally when I walk into any environment my first goal is to get people on my side, acceptance. But they walked into the neighborhood and pissed everyone off.
When anything is taken by force you are generally seen as the bully. Bullys always fall. If i was Israel I would start thinking about making friends instead of continuously pissing people off. Look what happened in the UK in the last few months. Some English officers were killed by I believe Ireland(I could be very wrong about the country). England didn't go and spend millions bombing the shit out of it and killing thousands of people. Both sides got up and said we will not undermine the peace that has been built over decades because of the actions of a few idiot radicals.
All i'm saying is that their policy of taking more land and killing Palestinians at a ratio of greater than 100:1 better change very soon or they are destined to share the same fate that many countries and empires of similar policies shared throughout history.
Originally posted by: SheriffA00
Originally posted by: TruePaige
This is a great topic for discussion. I like it must better than the usual who is right, who is wrong, stupid discussion of whatever stupid fight happened in the middle east this week.
While the US has been of great aid to Israel over the years, and provided many weapons to them, much of the success comes from having a highly trained, required, defense force. They are some of the best trained troops in the world from reports I've read.
Also, as much as the US has helped them in combat, many times when they were closest to taking major cities, or setting up shop so to speak in cities that had enemy combatants in, they have been asked to pull back or negotiate by the US as well. The United States seems to play whatever side of the coin is most advantageous to them many times.
Now, when you mention that they need a contingency plan, do you think they would be under assault? Just want to make sure I understand you. Anyhow, a nation of Israel's size and with their stable + growing economy could do quite well on it's own. It needs allies for the purpose of ensuring a (mostly) peaceful relationship with other neighbor states, some who still don't respect their right to exist. Either way, a nuclear state doesn't go away no matter how bad someone might want it. Look at North Korea!
Anyhow, I hope that you do get to return to that area and see your homeland. But I really wish that both sides would stop focusing on whether it is Israeli or Palestinian land and share it. I'd like to see peace in the region, but like so much of the middle east, vigilante justice and sect based violence seems to be the most prevalent obstacle to that.
When I said contingency plan I meant that many countries don't want Israel there. I wouldn't walk into a predominantly African American neighborhood and scream racial slurs. All i'm saying is they haven't made to many friends in the region. Personally when I walk into any environment my first goal is to get people on my side, acceptance. But they walked into the neighborhood and pissed everyone off.
When anything is taken by force you are generally seen as the bully. Bullys always fall. If i was Israel I would start thinking about making friends instead of continuously pissing people off. Look what happened in the UK in the last few months. Some English officers were killed by I believe Ireland(I could be very wrong about the country). England didn't go and spend millions bombing the shit out of it and killing thousands of people. Both sides got up and said we will not undermine the peace that has been built over decades because of the actions of a few idiot radicals.
All i'm saying is that their policy of taking more land and killing Palestinians at a ratio of greater than 100:1 better change very soon or they are destined to share the same fate that many countries and empires of similar policies shared throughout history.
To be honest with ourselves, you have to admit that from the day land was given to form the Israeli state, none of their neighbors wanted them there. Many of the governments of that area are formed based on deeply religious overtones, greatly conflicting with Israel's secular state, which also happens to have a highly Jewish population.
The ratios of deaths has more to do with weapon quality than anything else and many other nations have tread the same path and came out fine. I am not saying that this is right but rather that this does not ensure downfall. Examples to be cited would be the spanish vs the indians of south and central America. Also the Europeans and the natives of North America. The roman empire thrived for a long time and was one of the greatest societies in history with one of the bloodiest histories. Also Russia and China are powerhouses who have similar pasts.
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: SheriffA00
Originally posted by: TruePaige
This is a great topic for discussion. I like it must better than the usual who is right, who is wrong, stupid discussion of whatever stupid fight happened in the middle east this week.
While the US has been of great aid to Israel over the years, and provided many weapons to them, much of the success comes from having a highly trained, required, defense force. They are some of the best trained troops in the world from reports I've read.
Also, as much as the US has helped them in combat, many times when they were closest to taking major cities, or setting up shop so to speak in cities that had enemy combatants in, they have been asked to pull back or negotiate by the US as well. The United States seems to play whatever side of the coin is most advantageous to them many times.
Now, when you mention that they need a contingency plan, do you think they would be under assault? Just want to make sure I understand you. Anyhow, a nation of Israel's size and with their stable + growing economy could do quite well on it's own. It needs allies for the purpose of ensuring a (mostly) peaceful relationship with other neighbor states, some who still don't respect their right to exist. Either way, a nuclear state doesn't go away no matter how bad someone might want it. Look at North Korea!
Anyhow, I hope that you do get to return to that area and see your homeland. But I really wish that both sides would stop focusing on whether it is Israeli or Palestinian land and share it. I'd like to see peace in the region, but like so much of the middle east, vigilante justice and sect based violence seems to be the most prevalent obstacle to that.
When I said contingency plan I meant that many countries don't want Israel there. I wouldn't walk into a predominantly African American neighborhood and scream racial slurs. All i'm saying is they haven't made to many friends in the region. Personally when I walk into any environment my first goal is to get people on my side, acceptance. But they walked into the neighborhood and pissed everyone off.
When anything is taken by force you are generally seen as the bully. Bullys always fall. If i was Israel I would start thinking about making friends instead of continuously pissing people off. Look what happened in the UK in the last few months. Some English officers were killed by I believe Ireland(I could be very wrong about the country). England didn't go and spend millions bombing the shit out of it and killing thousands of people. Both sides got up and said we will not undermine the peace that has been built over decades because of the actions of a few idiot radicals.
All i'm saying is that their policy of taking more land and killing Palestinians at a ratio of greater than 100:1 better change very soon or they are destined to share the same fate that many countries and empires of similar policies shared throughout history.
To be honest with ourselves, you have to admit that from the day land was given to form the Israeli state, none of their neighbors wanted them there. Many of the governments of that area are formed based on deeply religious overtones, greatly conflicting with Israel's secular state, which also happens to have a highly Jewish population.
The ratios of deaths has more to do with weapon quality than anything else and many other nations have tread the same path and came out fine. I am not saying that this is right but rather that this does not ensure downfall. Examples to be cited would be the spanish vs the indians of south and central America. Also the Europeans and the natives of North America. The roman empire thrived for a long time and was one of the greatest societies in history with one of the bloodiest histories. Also Russia and China are powerhouses who have similar pasts.
But at no other point of history has the media played a role as it is playing now. We have images of a Palestinian cuffed and blindfolded and held in front of a military vehicle with the commander ordering his soldier to shoot. We have images of white phosphorus and shrapnel grenades being fired on populated Palestinian areas. We have images of Palestinian boys handcuffed to Israreli military vehicles using them as human shields. We have images of IDF t shirts depicting a pregnant Palestinian woman in the cross hairs of a sniper rifle and the words, "One shot, two kills" underneath.
In todays world it is becoming more and more difficult because of the media and the internet to get away with human atrocities. Video speaks more than any formation of words. Groups are going out to Palestinian areas and giving away free video and camera phones to hundreds of Palestinians in order for them to capture the reality they live in.
During previous wars where horrific killings have taken place but there was no media, cameras, radio, or internet. People believed what they were told, if they were told Very few people know about what happened in panama in the early 70s and resulting death of thousands. That is because when the US invaded they did not allow any media and the internet did not exist.
The internet is an amazing tool to share information. Look at Iran, even though the government blocked FB and other sites, the world got its information from Twitter. Nobody in the world can hide anymore. No government can blatantly kill without the world knowing. Any attempt to block media in my opinion is admittance of guilt.
Thank god we have the internet, imagine how ignorant we would still be about the rest of the world.
Originally posted by: SheriffA00
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: SheriffA00
Originally posted by: TruePaige
This is a great topic for discussion. I like it must better than the usual who is right, who is wrong, stupid discussion of whatever stupid fight happened in the middle east this week.
While the US has been of great aid to Israel over the years, and provided many weapons to them, much of the success comes from having a highly trained, required, defense force. They are some of the best trained troops in the world from reports I've read.
Also, as much as the US has helped them in combat, many times when they were closest to taking major cities, or setting up shop so to speak in cities that had enemy combatants in, they have been asked to pull back or negotiate by the US as well. The United States seems to play whatever side of the coin is most advantageous to them many times.
Now, when you mention that they need a contingency plan, do you think they would be under assault? Just want to make sure I understand you. Anyhow, a nation of Israel's size and with their stable + growing economy could do quite well on it's own. It needs allies for the purpose of ensuring a (mostly) peaceful relationship with other neighbor states, some who still don't respect their right to exist. Either way, a nuclear state doesn't go away no matter how bad someone might want it. Look at North Korea!
Anyhow, I hope that you do get to return to that area and see your homeland. But I really wish that both sides would stop focusing on whether it is Israeli or Palestinian land and share it. I'd like to see peace in the region, but like so much of the middle east, vigilante justice and sect based violence seems to be the most prevalent obstacle to that.
When I said contingency plan I meant that many countries don't want Israel there. I wouldn't walk into a predominantly African American neighborhood and scream racial slurs. All i'm saying is they haven't made to many friends in the region. Personally when I walk into any environment my first goal is to get people on my side, acceptance. But they walked into the neighborhood and pissed everyone off.
When anything is taken by force you are generally seen as the bully. Bullys always fall. If i was Israel I would start thinking about making friends instead of continuously pissing people off. Look what happened in the UK in the last few months. Some English officers were killed by I believe Ireland(I could be very wrong about the country). England didn't go and spend millions bombing the shit out of it and killing thousands of people. Both sides got up and said we will not undermine the peace that has been built over decades because of the actions of a few idiot radicals.
All i'm saying is that their policy of taking more land and killing Palestinians at a ratio of greater than 100:1 better change very soon or they are destined to share the same fate that many countries and empires of similar policies shared throughout history.
To be honest with ourselves, you have to admit that from the day land was given to form the Israeli state, none of their neighbors wanted them there. Many of the governments of that area are formed based on deeply religious overtones, greatly conflicting with Israel's secular state, which also happens to have a highly Jewish population.
The ratios of deaths has more to do with weapon quality than anything else and many other nations have tread the same path and came out fine. I am not saying that this is right but rather that this does not ensure downfall. Examples to be cited would be the spanish vs the indians of south and central America. Also the Europeans and the natives of North America. The roman empire thrived for a long time and was one of the greatest societies in history with one of the bloodiest histories. Also Russia and China are powerhouses who have similar pasts.
But at no other point of history has the media played a role as it is playing now. We have images of a Palestinian cuffed and blindfolded and held in front of a military vehicle with the commander ordering his soldier to shoot. We have images of white phosphorus and shrapnel grenades being fired on populated Palestinian areas. We have images of Palestinian boys handcuffed to Israreli military vehicles using them as human shields. We have images of IDF t shirts depicting a pregnant Palestinian woman in the cross hairs of a sniper rifle and the words, "One shot, two kills" underneath.
In todays world it is becoming more and more difficult because of the media and the internet to get away with human atrocities. Video speaks more than any formation of words. Groups are going out to Palestinian areas and giving away free video and camera phones to hundreds of Palestinians in order for them to capture the reality they live in.
During previous wars where horrific killings have taken place but there was no media, cameras, radio, or internet. People believed what they were told, if they were told Very few people know about what happened in panama in the early 70s and resulting death of thousands. That is because when the US invaded they did not allow any media and the internet did not exist.
The internet is an amazing tool to share information. Look at Iran, even though the government blocked FB and other sites, the world got its information from Twitter. Nobody in the world can hide anymore. No government can blatantly kill without the world knowing. Any attempt to block media in my opinion is admittance of guilt.
Thank god we have the internet, imagine how ignorant we would still be about the rest of the world.
I'd like to speak at further lengths on this. Unfortunately I need to get some rest. But I'll respond later!
Thanks for the level headed conversation!
lupi
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2001
- 32,539
- 260
- 126
You're going to need to go further back than 1938 to find it on a map; and even if that's as far as you needed to go, that's already past this quiant little place called isreal showing up on the map.
Want to be fed? I recommend moving somewhere that has available employement since there is little farmland still unclaimed by some entity.
Want to be fed? I recommend moving somewhere that has available employement since there is little farmland still unclaimed by some entity.
i fully endorse all semites to live in semite lands. jew or arab, they're all semitic. this is a semitic conflict, let them sort it out. What does america have to do w/ it? stop giving in to the bloody israeli lobby groups and tell to deal w/ this sh%t alone. During this recession WE can use the hundres of millions of dollars being given to both sides in this conflict (to israel and our "arab allies").
does this seem odd to any of u????
wow, so being a jewish extremist is ok, but palestinian extremist isnt. right. settlers are as extreme as hamas, but they have the IDF to protect them. I assure u they'd stoop to terrorism if they were left to themselves.
When Palestine was Palestine it was the jews that invented suicide bombers. They were getting on buses and blowing themselves up. My source is from a book called The Israeli Lobby which has a source on that info.
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