Israel / Gaza Thread

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
It doesn't matter if the Palestinians have a military or not. They choose to attack Israel, therefore Israel must pacify them, and force is the only option. Diplomacy will not work.

By pacify you mean completely wipe them off the face of the earth, right? Because continuously killing them is only breeding more hate, violence, and support for Hamas on their side.

If that is what it takes, yes. It was shown time and time again that the Japanese were willing to fight down to the last man. I'm sure you've heard of the Japanese soldier who was found living in a cave nearly 50 years after the war was over. The Japanese also established the first suicide bomber; the Kamikaze. That is how dedicated these men were to their cause. So how did we win? How did we defeat such a fanatical enemy? By overwhelming force. They had been pushed back to their homeland, only to see it in ruin.The Japanese were faced with the complete destruction of their entire civilization. So they surrendered. They realized that they had no chance of victory. Their will to fight was broken. That is what must be done in Gaza.

Come back to reality. There was peace because the empire said there would be peace. It was as much political as military.

And why did the empire do that? Will there be peace in Gaza if the religious leaders say there will be peace?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
It doesn't matter if the Palestinians have a military or not. They choose to attack Israel, therefore Israel must pacify them, and force is the only option. Diplomacy will not work.

By pacify you mean completely wipe them off the face of the earth, right? Because continuously killing them is only breeding more hate, violence, and support for Hamas on their side.

Pacify mean to make them stop fighting. If continuously killing them only makes them fight harder then pacify does mean exerminate them.

If you are determined to fight to the bitter end, and are facing a enemy that can end you, then you are going to get the bitter end you are asking for.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
It doesn't matter if the Palestinians have a military or not. They choose to attack Israel, therefore Israel must pacify them, and force is the only option. Diplomacy will not work.

By pacify you mean completely wipe them off the face of the earth, right? Because continuously killing them is only breeding more hate, violence, and support for Hamas on their side.

If that is what it takes, yes. It was shown time and time again that the Japanese were willing to fight down to the last man. I'm sure you've heard of the Japanese soldier who was found living in a cave nearly 50 years after the war was over. The Japanese also established the first suicide bomber; the Kamikaze. That is how dedicated these men were to their cause. So how did we win? How did we defeat such a fanatical enemy? By overwhelming force. They had been pushed back to their homeland, only to see it in ruin.The Japanese were faced with the complete destruction of their entire civilization. So they surrendered. They realized that they had no chance of victory. Their will to fight was broken. That is what must be done in Gaza.

Come back to reality. There was peace because the empire said there would be peace. It was as much political as military.

And why did the empire do that? Will there be peace in Gaza if the religious leaders say there will be peace?

What leaders Israel has been bombing leaders.

The empire accepted peace because we offered terms that let him keep his pride.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
It doesn't matter if the Palestinians have a military or not. They choose to attack Israel, therefore Israel must pacify them, and force is the only option. Diplomacy will not work.

By pacify you mean completely wipe them off the face of the earth, right? Because continuously killing them is only breeding more hate, violence, and support for Hamas on their side.

If that is what it takes, yes. It was shown time and time again that the Japanese were willing to fight down to the last man. I'm sure you've heard of the Japanese soldier who was found living in a cave nearly 50 years after the war was over. The Japanese also established the first suicide bomber; the Kamikaze. That is how dedicated these men were to their cause. So how did we win? How did we defeat such a fanatical enemy? By overwhelming force. They had been pushed back to their homeland, only to see it in ruin.The Japanese were faced with the complete destruction of their entire civilization. So they surrendered. They realized that they had no chance of victory. Their will to fight was broken. That is what must be done in Gaza.

Come back to reality. There was peace because the empire said there would be peace. It was as much political as military.

And why did the empire do that? Will there be peace in Gaza if the religious leaders say there will be peace?

What leaders Israel has been bombing leaders.

The empire accepted peace because we offered terms that let him keep his pride.

You keep avoiding what was done to make surrender an option. Would Japan have surrendered if they had not been brought to the brink of destruction? No, they would have kept fighting.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
It doesn't matter if the Palestinians have a military or not. They choose to attack Israel, therefore Israel must pacify them, and force is the only option. Diplomacy will not work.

By pacify you mean completely wipe them off the face of the earth, right? Because continuously killing them is only breeding more hate, violence, and support for Hamas on their side.

If that is what it takes, yes. It was shown time and time again that the Japanese were willing to fight down to the last man. I'm sure you've heard of the Japanese soldier who was found living in a cave nearly 50 years after the war was over. The Japanese also established the first suicide bomber; the Kamikaze. That is how dedicated these men were to their cause. So how did we win? How did we defeat such a fanatical enemy? By overwhelming force. They had been pushed back to their homeland, only to see it in ruin.The Japanese were faced with the complete destruction of their entire civilization. So they surrendered. They realized that they had no chance of victory. Their will to fight was broken. That is what must be done in Gaza.

Come back to reality. There was peace because the empire said there would be peace. It was as much political as military.

And why did the empire do that? Will there be peace in Gaza if the religious leaders say there will be peace?

What leaders Israel has been bombing leaders.

The empire accepted peace because we offered terms that let him keep his pride.

There are no leaders of Hamas in Gaza. they are all hiding in Syria and other locations.

Israel has not targeted the political leaders of the Palistinians, only the militant leaders that choose to attack Israel.

Look at the times they could have taken out Arafat in Gaza or elsewhere. The same goes with Hamas elected leadership as well as Fatah leadership.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: ra990
Israelis are killing almost 100 Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli. At what point do we look at this as what it is? Genocide.

What kind of war can you have when the other side's military consists of people with rockets and guns? They have an air force, a navy, advanced weaponry. "War till the bitter end?" Haha, what a joke.

I'm not saying Israel shouldn't respond to the Hamas threat, but this is not a fair response.

How is it Israel's fault that Palestinians suck at war?

The only thing they're good at is poke-poke-poking at Israel and when the inevitable whooping ensues they play the victim card. It's happened so many times I can't believe people continue to fall for it.

They should turn that place into a glass bowl and get it over with. How many Japanese "insurgents" were around after WW2? And they were at least as fervent in their cause as these guys. The firebombing of German cities is another good example. If you're going to fight a war, don't do it half-assed. All that's good for is dragging it out for years and years (see also: Iraq, Afghanistan).

You speak the truth. The Palestinians must be pacified in the same manner as the Japanese -- through overwhelming force. There is no other option.

At least the Japanese had a military. Call this what you want. War it is not.

Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

I laugh at all the people saying how it's not a "fair fight" or whatever. Is Israel supposed to throw rocks or use crappy 70's era rockets in the interest of keeping it "fair". So laughable. Maybe the US should pull all of their high-tech weapons and aircraft out of Afghanistan too. How fair is that for the poor oppressed Taliban?

What a joke.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
w/ respect to the Arab nations urging the local ouit, each side has their own interpretation of the messages taht were sent out from the Arab nations prior to the Mandate ending. those that were around are no longer so to state what was meant.

As I said, completely unsubstantiated. Sounds to me like a story the people conteuing to colonize Palestine tell their childern so that they might sleep better at night.

On the other hand I can substantiate the fact that some Israelis had sent out the message that they would expand well beyond their side of the U.N. mandate and into all of what once was Bibllical Israel, well before the Arab nations attacked.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
By driving the Jews to the edge, I was attempting to indicate that (excluding '67), on each of the conflicts, Israel has had to fall back, ceding territory until they could recover to stabilize the lines and start to repel the opposing forces. I did not mean to imply that they were driven to the sea (ala Dunkirk)

Right, was you said was an exageration, while it was in fact it was many Arabs who were Arabs driven to the sea before the war of 1948, into boats bound for Beruit and the like.

And note that the Arabs didn't gain any ground in 1957 either, it was Israelis who parashooted into Egpyt.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
My timing on the West Bank vs the first Intifada is off.

By two decades, in which you suggested the Intifadas lead to the settements, when in fact it was exactly the opposite. Two decades of colonization lead to the First Intifada.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
The West Bank was an attempt to generate a trip wire after the '67 Conflict. And it may have helped prevent Jordan from particpating in the '73 conflict.

That is one of the purposes of the settlements, to attempt to dtect and alert the main supporting force of trouble.

That is the purpose of an occupation, but moving civilians into that land changes the purpose of a trip wire to that of colonization, further requiring occupation beyonnd them.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Land is taken and absorbed by the conqueror for their own use/needs. Fact of war.
Jordan surrendered the West Bank to Israel. Why swhould there be restrictions on Israel from the loser on what to do with the land?

The restrictions are derived from the rights of the inhabitants. Just as the allies were not free to drive out the Germans while colonizing their homeland after WWII, neither are the Israelis free to do so with the Palestinians.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Many displaced went into camps in Gaza and the West Bank because the Arab nations refused to take care of them and the locals did not want them on their lands.

two wrongs don't make a right.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
It still boils down to that people were displaced due to war and those that were responsible for the war lost caused the consequences. An none of the Arab countries want to take on the responsiblity that they original stated they would, leaving the local Palestinians in limbo.

Isreal will not bend over backwards to help as long as there are people still acting hostile toward them. Israel has been very tolerant of the PAlestinians compared to history and the Arab nations.

The colonization of Palestine is what is responsible for this conflict from the beginning, and far from bending over backward, Israel continues it's push forward in its continuing colonization of the West Bank today.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

Standing by as Israel continues to expand their ethnic nationalist state by colonizing Palestinian land in the West Bank, hence depriving the Palestinian people of any chance of ever realizing sovereignty over their homeland, isn't much of a life either. Unfortunately, Israel has been doing that since long before Hamas ever existed.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

Standing by as Israel continues to expand their ethnic nationalist state by colonizing Palestinian land in the West Bank, hence depriving the Palestinian people of any chance of ever realizing sovereignty over their homeland, isn't much of a life either. Unfortunately, Israel has been doing that since long before Hamas ever existed.

Nor is living in a constant state of fear that one of the many outdated rockets launched by Palestinian religious zealots in an attempt to kill the infidel will hit your home

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

Standing by as Israel continues to expand their ethnic nationalist state by colonizing Palestinian land in the West Bank, hence depriving the Palestinian people of any chance of ever realizing sovereignty over their homeland, isn't much of a life either. Unfortunately, Israel has been doing that since long before Hamas ever existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

The Palestinian negotiators indicated they wanted full Palestinian sovereignty over all the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, although they would consider a one-to-one land swap with Israel. They maintained that Resolution 242 calls for full Israeli withdrawal from these territories, which were captured in the Six-Day War, as part of a final peace settlement, although Israel disputes this interpretation. In the 1993 Oslo Accords the Palestinian negotiators accepted the Green Line borders for the West Bank. Barak offered to form a Palestinian State initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10 to 25 years the West Bank area would expand to 90-91% (94% excluding greater Jerusalem).[1][2][3] As a result, "Israel would have withdrawn from 63 settlements."[4] The West Bank would be separated by a road from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, with free passage for Palestinians although Israel reserved the right to close the road for passage in case of emergency. The Palestinian position was that the annexations would block existing road networks between major Palestinian populations. In return, the Israelis would cede 1% of their territory in the Negev Desert to Palestine. The Palestinians rejected this proposal.

They were offered an independent Palestinian state encompassing close to 95% of the total area they were seeking. However the Palestinian leadership prefers to continue flouting their victim hood to the world in the hope that it will weaken and eventually destroy Israel. And they certainly don't mind sacrificing civilian lives on either side to further this end.

Don't for a second be deluded into thinking they would turn into a bunch of flower-wearing peaceniks if the cruel Israelis would only stop oppressing them. This is a crock and only the weak-minded continue to be fooled into thinking it.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: ra990

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
It doesn't matter if the Palestinians have a military or not. They choose to attack Israel, therefore Israel must pacify them, and force is the only option. Diplomacy will not work.

By pacify you mean completely wipe them off the face of the earth, right? Because continuously killing them is only breeding more hate, violence, and support for Hamas on their side.

If that is what it takes, yes. It was shown time and time again that the Japanese were willing to fight down to the last man. I'm sure you've heard of the Japanese soldier who was found living in a cave nearly 50 years after the war was over. The Japanese also established the first suicide bomber; the Kamikaze. That is how dedicated these men were to their cause. So how did we win? How did we defeat such a fanatical enemy? By overwhelming force. They had been pushed back to their homeland, only to see it in ruin.The Japanese were faced with the complete destruction of their entire civilization. So they surrendered. They realized that they had no chance of victory. Their will to fight was broken. That is what must be done in Gaza.

Come back to reality. There was peace because the empire said there would be peace. It was as much political as military.

And why did the empire do that? Will there be peace in Gaza if the religious leaders say there will be peace?

What leaders Israel has been bombing leaders.

The empire accepted peace because we offered terms that let him keep his pride.

You keep avoiding what was done to make surrender an option. Would Japan have surrendered if they had not been brought to the brink of destruction? No, they would have kept fighting.

Gaza has been or past the brink of destruction for the last 40 years. Hamas is new to the fight. Now it is time for Israel to make concessions so surrender is an option.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

Standing by as Israel continues to expand their ethnic nationalist state by colonizing Palestinian land in the West Bank, hence depriving the Palestinian people of any chance of ever realizing sovereignty over their homeland, isn't much of a life either. Unfortunately, Israel has been doing that since long before Hamas ever existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

The Palestinian negotiators indicated they wanted full Palestinian sovereignty over all the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, although they would consider a one-to-one land swap with Israel. They maintained that Resolution 242 calls for full Israeli withdrawal from these territories, which were captured in the Six-Day War, as part of a final peace settlement, although Israel disputes this interpretation. In the 1993 Oslo Accords the Palestinian negotiators accepted the Green Line borders for the West Bank. Barak offered to form a Palestinian State initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10 to 25 years the West Bank area would expand to 90-91% (94% excluding greater Jerusalem).[1][2][3] As a result, "Israel would have withdrawn from 63 settlements."[4] The West Bank would be separated by a road from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, with free passage for Palestinians although Israel reserved the right to close the road for passage in case of emergency. The Palestinian position was that the annexations would block existing road networks between major Palestinian populations. In return, the Israelis would cede 1% of their territory in the Negev Desert to Palestine. The Palestinians rejected this proposal.

They were offered an independent Palestinian state encompassing close to 95% of the total area they were seeking. However the Palestinian leadership prefers to continue flouting their victim hood to the world in the hope that it will weaken and eventually destroy Israel. And they certainly don't mind sacrificing civilian lives on either side to further this end.

Don't for a second be deluded into thinking they would turn into a bunch of flower-wearing peaceniks if the cruel Israelis would only stop oppressing them. This is a crock and only the weak-minded continue to be fooled into thinking it.

The Israeli negotiators wanted the following requirements to be part of the agreement: Early warning stations inside the Palestinian state; Israeli control of Palestinian airspace; the right of Israel to deploy troops in the Palestinian state in the event of an emergency; the stationing of an international force in the Jordan Valley. Furthermore the Palestinian state was to be demilitarized.[9]

Gee how could they have rejected such a nice apartheid offer.

 

[badnewcastle]

Why would this surprise anyone?

 

[badnewcastle]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
how many deaths have their been from these rockets say from 1995 till today?

I don't have the answer, so I'll let someone else take a stab at that... but would you mind telling us why that figure is important to you?

I'm just curious.

2000 - 2004:
"From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 in 425 attacks, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs." Link

I don't know how many of them are from rockets but just recently quoted from the same story I saw this current conflict, Hamas was responsible for 4 dead (3 civilians) by rockets/mortars.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Czar
So you are shocked now but not when Israel shoots at ambulances, drives them away, stops them at checkpoints and all resulting in countless deaths.

oh and guess what.

I will bet my ass off that hamas tries to put their terrorists in there to try and escape. when Israel checks them at checkpoints, its because of that. they can have the number 1 leader 5 feet from them but if they dont check it, they can get away.

 

[ericlp]

If anyone can stir up the shit it's the OP. I don't take sides tho, I don't agree with sending over F16's to try and take out a few idiots with rockets strapped on their backs. Israel should just be lucky they don't start sending waves of suicide bombers. I guess that's the next on the list. When do they get it? Religious wars and retaliation doesn't work. Tho America still has not gotten it and we set a good example for the rest of idiots to follow in this world.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: ericlp
a few idiots with rockets strapped on their backs.

thats where you are wrong. get your facts straight.

Hamas is the government there. they control the money flow, the police, the medical care, food, and every thing else a normal government would.

they would rather spend money on missiles than help their people

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Gaza has been or past the brink of destruction for the last 40 years. Hamas is new to the fight. Now it is time for Israel to make concessions so surrender is an option.

No they have not. They still have the will to fight. Until that is broken, they will continue to attack.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: smack Down

Gaza has been or past the brink of destruction for the last 40 years. Hamas is new to the fight. Now it is time for Israel to make concessions so surrender is an option.

No they have not. They still have the will to fight. Until that is broken, they will continue to attack.

So didn't the Japaneses. No matter how many people Israel murders they will still have the will to fight.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: ericlp
a few idiots with rockets strapped on their backs.

thats where you are wrong. get your facts straight.

Hamas is the government there. they control the money flow, the police, the medical care, food, and every thing else a normal government would.

they would rather spend money on missiles than help their people

Again, you don't get it.


I know a few people like Bush that would rather spend money on a few missiles then helping people.

These are crude low grade 'rockets' they are using by the way.... They are not controllable. Lucky to hit anything with them. You'll see, this will once again make matters worse and spread hatred. It will solve NOTHING...

Tho, prove me wrong. When has any religious war ended???

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Nor is living in a constant state of fear that one of the many outdated rockets launched by Palestinian religious zealots in an attempt to kill the infidel will hit your home

Which is why I recommend Israel put a stop to the ongoing colonization of Palestinian land which has been driving many to such zealotry since the begining of this conflict.

Originally posted by: dainthomas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

They were offered an independent Palestinian state encompassing close to 95% of the total area they were seeking. However the Palestinian leadership prefers to continue flouting their victim hood to the world in the hope that it will weaken and eventually destroy Israel. And they certainly don't mind sacrificing civilian lives on either side to further this end.

The percentage figures are misleading, as is demonstrated in this flash presentation:

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/ho...s_offers/barak_eng.swf

what the Palestinians were "offered" was no less than an agreement to forfeit their right to ever exist as an independent nation.

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Don't for a second be deluded into thinking they would turn into a bunch of flower-wearing peaceniks if the cruel Israelis would only stop oppressing them. This is a crock and only the weak-minded continue to be fooled into thinking it.

Please don't don't delude yourself into thinking a have ever suggested anything so simple as that.

 

[SigArms08]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Would you feel safe seeing the food and water supply run out and knowing that your children will either starve to death or die from dehydration unless you (or someone else) managed to break through the line of prison guards and smuggle food in?

......

If the situation is that dire, why not divert some of the current smuggling of missiles to that of food and water?

From what I understand (which may be very little), this whole mess seems like its the result of the UN dividing things up as they had seen fit and then not following through with the enforcement of the original intent.

Regardless, if this type of activity was being conducted against us, I'd hope that our leadership would respond with a very heavy hand:
Israel, Hamas Renew Attacks as Cease-Fire Is Rejected
From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 in 425 attacks, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
From 2001 through May 2008, Hamas launched more than 3,000 Qassam rockets and 2,500 mortar attacks against Israeli targets.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

Standing by as Israel continues to expand their ethnic nationalist state by colonizing Palestinian land in the West Bank, hence depriving the Palestinian people of any chance of ever realizing sovereignty over their homeland, isn't much of a life either. Unfortunately, Israel has been doing that since long before Hamas ever existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

The Palestinian negotiators indicated they wanted full Palestinian sovereignty over all the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, although they would consider a one-to-one land swap with Israel. They maintained that Resolution 242 calls for full Israeli withdrawal from these territories, which were captured in the Six-Day War, as part of a final peace settlement, although Israel disputes this interpretation. In the 1993 Oslo Accords the Palestinian negotiators accepted the Green Line borders for the West Bank. Barak offered to form a Palestinian State initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10 to 25 years the West Bank area would expand to 90-91% (94% excluding greater Jerusalem).[1][2][3] As a result, "Israel would have withdrawn from 63 settlements."[4] The West Bank would be separated by a road from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, with free passage for Palestinians although Israel reserved the right to close the road for passage in case of emergency. The Palestinian position was that the annexations would block existing road networks between major Palestinian populations. In return, the Israelis would cede 1% of their territory in the Negev Desert to Palestine. The Palestinians rejected this proposal.

They were offered an independent Palestinian state encompassing close to 95% of the total area they were seeking. However the Palestinian leadership prefers to continue flouting their victim hood to the world in the hope that it will weaken and eventually destroy Israel. And they certainly don't mind sacrificing civilian lives on either side to further this end.

Don't for a second be deluded into thinking they would turn into a bunch of flower-wearing peaceniks if the cruel Israelis would only stop oppressing them. This is a crock and only the weak-minded continue to be fooled into thinking it.

The Israeli negotiators wanted the following requirements to be part of the agreement: Early warning stations inside the Palestinian state; Israeli control of Palestinian airspace; the right of Israel to deploy troops in the Palestinian state in the event of an emergency; the stationing of an international force in the Jordan Valley. Furthermore the Palestinian state was to be demilitarized.[9]

Gee how could they have rejected such a nice apartheid offer.

It would be suicidal for Israel to allow itself to be surrounded by a fully militarized Palestinian state and everyone knows it. The Camp David offer is the best they could reasonably expect. Of course it's hard to characterize people who strap bombs to women and children as reasonable, so that's where we're at.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SigArms08
If the situation is that dire, why not divert some of the current smuggling of missiles to that of food and water?

The missiles Hamas fires are not smuggled into Gaza, they make them there themselves.

Originally posted by: dainthomas
It would be suicidal for Israel to allow itself to be surrounded by a fully militarized Palestinian state and everyone knows it. The Camp David offer is the best they could reasonably expect. Of course it's hard to characterize people who strap bombs to women and children as reasonable, so that's where we're at.

Again, there was nothing reasonable about the Camp David offer:

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/ho...s_offers/barak_eng.swf

what the Palestinians were "offered" was no less than an agreement to forfeit their right to ever exist as an independent nation.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Well here's a clue for Hamas then, if you have no military then attacking one of the most powerful militaries in the world might not be the healthiest lifestyle choice.

Standing by as Israel continues to expand their ethnic nationalist state by colonizing Palestinian land in the West Bank, hence depriving the Palestinian people of any chance of ever realizing sovereignty over their homeland, isn't much of a life either. Unfortunately, Israel has been doing that since long before Hamas ever existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

The Palestinian negotiators indicated they wanted full Palestinian sovereignty over all the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, although they would consider a one-to-one land swap with Israel. They maintained that Resolution 242 calls for full Israeli withdrawal from these territories, which were captured in the Six-Day War, as part of a final peace settlement, although Israel disputes this interpretation. In the 1993 Oslo Accords the Palestinian negotiators accepted the Green Line borders for the West Bank. Barak offered to form a Palestinian State initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10 to 25 years the West Bank area would expand to 90-91% (94% excluding greater Jerusalem).[1][2][3] As a result, "Israel would have withdrawn from 63 settlements."[4] The West Bank would be separated by a road from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, with free passage for Palestinians although Israel reserved the right to close the road for passage in case of emergency. The Palestinian position was that the annexations would block existing road networks between major Palestinian populations. In return, the Israelis would cede 1% of their territory in the Negev Desert to Palestine. The Palestinians rejected this proposal.

They were offered an independent Palestinian state encompassing close to 95% of the total area they were seeking. However the Palestinian leadership prefers to continue flouting their victim hood to the world in the hope that it will weaken and eventually destroy Israel. And they certainly don't mind sacrificing civilian lives on either side to further this end.

Don't for a second be deluded into thinking they would turn into a bunch of flower-wearing peaceniks if the cruel Israelis would only stop oppressing them. This is a crock and only the weak-minded continue to be fooled into thinking it.

The Israeli negotiators wanted the following requirements to be part of the agreement: Early warning stations inside the Palestinian state; Israeli control of Palestinian airspace; the right of Israel to deploy troops in the Palestinian state in the event of an emergency; the stationing of an international force in the Jordan Valley. Furthermore the Palestinian state was to be demilitarized.[9]

Gee how could they have rejected such a nice apartheid offer.

It would be suicidal for Israel to allow itself to be surrounded by a fully militarized Palestinian state and everyone knows it. The Camp David offer is the best they could reasonably expect. Of course it's hard to characterize people who strap bombs to women and children as reasonable, so that's where we're at.

If Israel refuses to accept a true dual state solution then the only other option is the end of Israel as a Jewish state.