Israel / Gaza Thread

[JEDIYoda]

So let me guess.....
TheSnowman`s account of the history of that region of the world is the only accurate account of the history of the Middle East.....
All others accounts are inaccurate........

 

[Jaskalas]

Gazan doctor says death toll inflated...
"The number of deceased stands at no more than 500 to 600. Most of them are youths between the ages of 17 to 23 who were recruited to the ranks of Hamas, who sent them to the slaughter," according to the newspaper article.

Propaganda all around. What you wish to believe is the very definition of whose side you're on and whose blood is on your hands.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
I'm just getting sick of hearing about this conflict, I used to think the jews had a right to their own country and I still do BUT I now think it should have been in somewhere like Africa. Some place with no real country, large amounts of unused land, no excessive religious or cultural conflict (arabs are bat s*** crazy IMHO) and a native population that can co-exist (this is the important point for both sides) with the immigrating jews be it living with them in towns and cities or clinging to their traditional way of life like tribes do today.

Jews lived peacefully amongst Arabs in Palestine and all over the Arab world, up until secular ethnic-nationalist Jews from Europe came to Palestine to begin their conquest over it. Only since that conquest began did have Arabs start adopting Judophobia from the West. Now you want to blame the Arabs for the hatred that was inspired by the ethnic cleansing operations and ongoing occupation of their Palestinian brethren by Jews? If so, you are the crazy one to hold such absurd bigotry toward Arabs, and it is such racism which allows Israel to continue their conquest over what little of Palestine is left.

Furthermore, Israel isn't about the Jewish region, it is an ethnic-nationalist state. Most Jews there don't even consider themselves religious, and their government is nothing of the sort.

I don't want to hear any more about this conflict either, but the only way to accomplish that is to end such ignorance and bigotry and persuade Israel to respect Palestinians rights. Only then can this conflict can be brought to a just conclusions on the basis of international law.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Basically, both sides need to say "screw it, we both did a lot of really dumbass things" and be willing to move on, water under the bridge style.

Do you not realize that Israel has vast military superiority over the Palestinian population they Israel kept under martial law for decades?

What you suggest make perfect sense in the case of two nations of comparable might, but it is completely unreasonable to expect Israel to respect Palestinians rights as long as Israel has the power avoid ever doing as much, and continues to exploit their dominance to continue the conquest over what little of Palestine is left.

Again, if you saw a full grown man raping a small child and the child scratching back, surely you wouldn't just sit back and say they both just need to learn how to move on?

For example sake, here is a statement from one of many Israeli conscious objectors:

At first, like many other Israeli citizens, I too could not bring myself to confront or criticize the Israeli military?s immoral actions. I realize that this difficulty originated from my sense of identification with soldiers my own age, to whom I could relate. Today it is precisely this realization that leads me to refuse to serve. I cannot recognize the humanity of Israelis but not that of Palestinians. It is because of my deep sense of commitment and responsibility to the community in which I grew up that I am refusing to contribute to this cycle of bloodshed.

We can no longer term our military a ?Defense Force.? A defense force does not conquer lands of another people. A defense force does not assist in the building of settlements on those lands. A defense force does not permit settlers to throw stones at Palestinian civilians, nor does it deny them access to their lands and source of livelihood. None of these are acts of a defense force.

The occupation has no defensive advantages. On the contrary, the pointless occupation of millions of people only leads to radicalization of opinions, hatred and the escalation of violence. Violence is a cycle that feeds into itself. This cycle will not stop until someone stands up and refuses uncompromisingly to take part in it.

This is what I am doing today.

My views are also relevant to the current operation in Gaza. One form of violence cannot stop another. This current violence is the result of decades of ongoing occupation of the territories and sieges on Gaza since the disengagement. I mourn the unnecessary deaths of both Palestinians and Israelis.

Yet again we have chosen war.

http://www.newprofile.org/showdata.asp?pid=1292

Does anyone see the refusal to take part in Israel's conquest over a defenceless Palestine as any reason that pretty young girl and many other conscious objectors are imprisoned?

Seriously, where is there any justice at all to be found in any of this ongoing conquest over what little of Palestine is left?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
So let me guess.....

I really wish you could bring yourself to quit relying on such guesswork, as is exactly such willful ignorance which perpetuates this conflict.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
TheSnowman`s account of the history of that region of the world is the only accurate account of the history of the Middle East.....
All others accounts are inaccurate........

There is one real history, and the more you come to understand all accounts you understand which parts are accurate and which are not. That is what I have been doing for nearly a decade, so I have a firm grasp of the history as well as the current conditions of the conflict and rarely see anyone present any facts I haven't been familiar with for a long while now.

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Propaganda all around. What you wish to believe is the very definition of whose side you're on and whose blood is on your hands.

Only if you crave blood on your hands, otherwise you could join the world in our efforts work past the propaganda and bring peaceful resolution to this conflict.

 

[Lemon law]

The Jaskalas fallacy here is to assume that one doctor, working in one hospital has any kind of a larger perspective of what is happening in around him, in a much larger area with 1.5 million people or so.

A generic denial based more on the logic, if I did not personally hear the tree fall in the Forest, it must not have fallen. And to another extent, if the wounds are immediately fatal, why bring the already dead to the hospital?

But point somewhat taken, various sides may inflate or deflate the actual numbers if it feathers their nest, like Iraq, we may never know the real numbers of civilian causalities as estimates vary widely.

 

[Freshgeardude]

snowman, I find it amusing that, It was not the fact that the land mass was 30% or double or even smaller than Israel, it was that you continue to give false AND conflicting information. I repeat, I am not arguing about the numbers, im arguing that you can never give a single straight answer, and rather you edit or say you are wrong, you try and mock me for telling everyone you are wrong.

this is the problem, people think they know the conflict, they spread their own propaganda and change their views to make it look like they are the right ones. you are starting to sound like an anti-semetic person

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
snowman, I find it amusing that, It was not the fact that the land mass was 30% or double or even smaller than Israel, it was that you continue to give false AND conflicting information. I repeat, I am not arguing about the numbers, im arguing that you can never give a single straight answer, and rather you edit or say you are wrong, you try and mock me for telling everyone you are wrong.

this is the problem, people think they know the conflict, they spread their own propaganda and change their views to make it look like they are the right ones. you are starting to sound like an anti-semetic person

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes, play the anti-semetic card, the last refuge of scoundrels, but a wee mite difficult when the Palestinians are also a semetic people.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
snowman, I find it amusing that, It was not the fact that the land mass was 30% or double or even smaller than Israel, it was that you continue to give false AND conflicting information. I repeat, I am not arguing about the numbers, im arguing that you can never give a single straight answer, and rather you edit or say you are wrong, you try and mock me for telling everyone you are wrong.

this is the problem, people think they know the conflict, they spread their own propaganda and change their views to make it look like they are the right ones. you are starting to sound like an anti-semetic person

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes, play the anti-semetic card, the last refuge of scoundrels, but a wee mite difficult when the Palestinians are also a semetic people.

I know that they are semetic people. im not assuming he is a semetic person, I just think he is anti semetic

edit: or shall I rephrase that, anti-jewish

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
So let me guess.....

I really wish you could bring yourself to quit relying on such guesswork, as is exactly such willful ignorance which perpetuates this conflict.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
TheSnowman`s account of the history of that region of the world is the only accurate account of the history of the Middle East.....
All others accounts are inaccurate........

There is one real history, and the more you come to understand all accounts you understand which parts are accurate and which are not. That is what I have been doing for nearly a decade, so I have a firm grasp of the history as well as the current conditions of the conflict and rarely see anyone present any facts I haven't been familiar with for a long while now.

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Propaganda all around. What you wish to believe is the very definition of whose side you're on and whose blood is on your hands.

Only if you crave blood on your hands, otherwise you could join the world in our efforts work past the propaganda and bring peaceful resolution to this conflict.

There is one real history, and the more you come to understand all accounts you understand which parts are accurate and which are not. That is what I have been doing for nearly a decade, so I have a firm grasp of the history as well as the current conditions of the conflict and rarely see anyone present any facts I haven't been familiar with for a long while now. <---- thats interesting I have family in Israel and have lived there and am considered very liberal by some concerning my thoughts on the middle east....whats interesting is I have placed myself as an outsider looking in many times and I have come to one conclusion......if you leave Israel alone you will have peace!
If you leave other peoples iin that region alone some segments of that people will finds a way undermine that peace!!

 

[raildogg]

I think we might be a off to a good start with Obama calling for Israel to open up the borders. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7cf7...a4d0-0000779fd2ac.html

I can hope that Obama will be fair with both sides. We need to limit our weapons exports to Israel and increase aid to the Palestinians. Give the people some sort of hope and that may deter some to join the so-called terrorist groups. Israel is doing the opposite and that may create more hatred and that may lead to more recruits for the so-called terrorist groups.

The Arab world needs to see America being fair. For many years, that has not happened. Obama is off to a good start. Lets see what happens.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
thats interesting I have family in Israel and have lived there and am considered very liberal by some concerning my thoughts on the middle east....whats interesting is I have placed myself as an outsider looking in many times and I have come to one conclusion......if you leave Israel alone you will have peace!
If you leave other peoples iin that region alone some segments of that people will finds a way undermine that peace!!

That isn't supprising, there are many people in Israel just like you, and one can only expect that much when Israeli textbooks teach history like this:

Israeli Textbooks and Children?s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs

By Maureen Meehan
Israeli school textbooks as well as children?s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as ?murderers,? ?rioters,? ?suspicious,? and generally backward and unproductive. Direct delegitimization and negative stereotyping of Palestinians and Arabs are the rule rather than the exception in Israeli schoolbooks.

Professor Daniel Bar-Tal of Tel Aviv University studied 124 elementary, middle- and high school textbooks on grammar and Hebrew literature, history, geography and citizenship. Bar-Tal concluded that Israeli textbooks present the view that Jews are involved in a justified, even humanitarian, war against an Arab enemy that refuses to accept and acknowledge the existence and rights of Jews in Israel.

?The early textbooks tended to describe acts of Arabs as hostile, deviant, cruel, immoral, unfair, with the intention to hurt Jews and to annihilate the State of Israel. Within this frame of reference, Arabs were delegitimized by the use of such labels as ?robbers,? ?bloodthirsty,? and ?killers,?? said Professor Bar-Tal, adding that there has been little positive revision in the curriculum over the years.

Bar-Tal pointed out that Israeli textbooks continue to present Jews as industrious, brave and determined to cope with the difficulties of ?improving the country in ways they believe the Arabs are incapable of.?

Hebrew-language geography books from the 1950s through 1970s focused on the glory of Israel?s ancient past and how the land was ?neglected and destroyed? by the Arabs until the Jews returned from their forced exile and revived it ?with the help of the Zionist movement.?

?This attitude served to justify the return of the Jews, implying that they care enough about the country to turn the swamps and deserts into blossoming farmland; this effectively delegitimizes the Arab claim to the same land,? Bar-Tal told the Washington Report. ?The message was that the Palestinians were primitive and neglected the country and did not cultivate the land.?

This message, continued Bar-Tal, was further emphasized in textbooks by the use of blatant negative stereotyping which featured Arabs as: ?unenlightened, inferior, fatalistic, unproductive and apathetic.? Further, according to the textbooks, the Arabs were ?tribal, vengeful, exotic, poor, sick, dirty, noisy, colored? and ?they burn, murder, destroy, and are easily inflamed.?

Textbooks currently being used in the Israeli school system, says Bar-Tal, contain less direct denigration of Arabs but continue to stereotype them negatively when referring to them. He pointed out that Hebrew- as well as Arabic-language textbooks used in elementary and junior high schools contain very few references either to Arabs or to Arab-Jewish relations. The coordinator of a Palestinian NGO in Israel said that major historical events hardly get a mention either.

?When I was in high school 12 years ago, the date ?1948? barely appeared in any textbooks except for a mention that there was a conflict, Palestinians refused to accept a U.N. solution and ran away instead,? said Jamal Atamneh, coordinator of the Arab Education Committee in Support of Local Councils, a Haifa-based NGO. ?Today the idea communicated to schoolchildren is basically the same: there are winners and losers in every conflict. When they teach about ?peace and co-existence,? it is to teach us how to get along with Jews.?

Atamneh explained that textbooks used by the nearly one million Arab Israelis (one-fifth of Israel?s population) are in Arabic but are written by and issued from the Israeli Ministry of Education, where Palestinians have no influence or input.

?Fewer than 1 percent of the jobs in the Education Ministry, not counting teachers, are held by Palestinians,? Atamneh said. ?For the past 15 years, not one new Palestinian academic has been placed in a high position in the ministry. There are no Palestinians involved in preparing the Arabic-language curriculum [and] obviously, there is no such thing as affirmative action in Israel.?

In addition, there are no Arabic-language universities in Israel. Haifa University, Atamneh points out, has had a steady 20 percent Arab student population for the past 20 years. ?How can that figure have remained the same after all these years when the population in the north [of Israel] has grown to over 50 percent Arab??

Answering his own question, Atamneh rattles off statistics that reflect excellent high school scores among Arab students which he contrasts to their subsequent lower-than-average performance in Hebrew-language college entrance exams given by the state.

?No major scholarships have ever been awarded to an Arab; there are no dorms for Arabs and no college-related jobs or financial aid programs. They justify this legal discrimination by the fact that we do not serve in the army. There are numerous blatant and official methods used to keep Palestinian Arabs out of the universities.?


Absence of Palestinian Identity in Schoolbooks
Dr. Eli Podeh, lecturer in the Department of Islamic Studies and Middle East History at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, says that while certain changes in Israeli textbooks are slowly being implemented, the discussion of Palestinian national and civil identity is never touched upon.

?Passages from ?experts? about the existence of a Palestinian identity were introduced, but in general it appeared that the textbook authors were not eager to adopt it,? said Dr. Podeh, adding that ?the connection between Palestinians in Israel and Arabs in Arab countries is not discussed. Especially evident is the lack of a discussion on the orientation of Palestinians to the [occupied] territories.

?While new textbooks attempt to correct some of the earlier distortions, these books as well contain overt and covert fabrications,? said Dr. Podeh. ?The establishment has preferred?or felt itself forced?to encourage the cover-up and condemn the perplexity.?

One Israeli public high school student told the Washington Report that the contents of the schoolbooks and the viewpoints expressed by some teachers indeed have a lasting negative effect on youngsters? attitudes toward Palestinians.

?Our books basically tell us that everything the Jews do is fine and legitimate and Arabs are wrong and violent and are trying to exterminate us,? said Daniel Banvolegyi, a 17-year-old high school student in Jerusalem.

?We are accustomed to hearing the same thing, only one side of the story. They teach us that Israel became a state in 1948 and that the Arabs started a war. They don?t mention what happened to the Arabs?they never mention anything about refugees or Arabs having to leave their towns and homes,? said Banvolegyi.

Banvolegyi, who will be a high school senior this fall, and then will be drafted into the Israeli army next summer, said he argues with his friends about what he regards as racism in the textbooks and on the part of the teachers. He pointed out a worrisome example of how damaging the textbooks and prevailing attitudes can be.

?One kid told me he was angry because of something he read or discussed in school and that he felt like punching the first Arab he saw,? said Banvolegyi. ?Instead of teaching tolerance and reconciliation, the books and some teachers? attitudes are increasing hatred for Arabs.?

Banvolegyi spoke about his schoolmates who, he says, ?are dying to go into combat and kill Arabs. I try to talk to them but they say I don?t care about this country. But I do care and that?s why I tell them peace and justice are the only ways to work things out.?


Racist Israeli Upbringing
Considering what the schools have to offer, both Banvolegyi and Atamneh agree that the oral tradition is one of the few ways to get the story straight.

?Unfortunately Israeli children?s books are not an option for promoting equality in this society,? said Atamneh, citing a book written by Israeli writer/researcher Adir Cohen called An Ugly Face in the Mirror.

Cohen?s book is a study of the nature of children?s upbringing in Israel, concentrating on how the historical establishment sees and portrays Arab Palestinians as well as how Jewish Israeli children perceive Palestinians. One section of the book was based on the results of a survey taken of a group of 4th to 6th grade Jewish students at a school in Haifa. The pupils were asked five questions about their attitude toward Arabs, how they recognize them and how they relate to them. The results were as shocking as they were disturbing:

Seventy five percent of the children described the ?Arab? as a murderer, one who kidnaps children, a criminal and a terrorist. Eighty percent said they saw the Arab as someone dirty with a terrifying face. Ninety percent of the students stated they believe that Palestinians have no rights whatsoever to the land in Israel or Palestine

Cohen also researched 1,700 Israeli children?s books published after 1967. He found that 520 of the books contained humiliating, negative descriptions of Palestinians. He also took pains to break down the descriptions:

Sixty six percent of the 520 books refer to Arabs as violent; 52 percent as evil; 37 percent as liars; 31 percent as greedy; 28 percent as two-faced; 27 percent as traitors, etc.

Cohen points out that the authors of these children?s books effectively instill hatred toward Arabs by means of stripping them of their human nature and classifying them in another category. In a sampling of 86 books, Cohen counted the following descriptions used to dehumanize Arabs: Murderer was used 21 times; snake, 6 times; dirty, 9 times; vicious animal, 17 times; bloodthirsty, 21 times; warmonger, 17 times; killer, 13 times; believer in myths, 9 times; and a camel?s hump, 2 times.

Cohen?s study concludes that such descriptions of Arabs are part and parcel of convictions and a culture rampant in Hebrew literature and history books. He writes that Israeli authors and writers confess to deliberately portraying the Arab character in this way, particularly to their younger audience, in order to influence their outlook early on so as to prepare them to deal with Arabs.

?So you can see that if you grew up reading or studying from these books, you?d never know anything else,? said Atamneh.

?But in the case of Palestinians, we grow up 500 meters away from what used to be a town or village and is now a Jewish settlement. Our parents and grandparents tell us all about it; endlessly they talk about it. It?s the only way.?

http://www.washington-report.o...sues/0999/9909019.html

However there also many Israelis and others who have worked past such propaganda to study the history and ongoing reality of this conflict far more thoroughly than you have, and hence are better equipped better achieve the position of and outsider looking in. Unable to achieve that same perspective for yourself, you simply dismiss their understanding as well as me for sharing it, and consider us misguided or worse. In fact we are only trying to help bring understanding and resolution to this conflict, so both Israel and Palestine can finally exist as neighbors in peace.

 

[smokeyjoe]

From here - http://www.freedomhouse.org/te...year=2006&country=6985

"Arab residents of East Jerusalem, while not granted automatic citizenship, were issued Israeli identity cards after the 1967 Six-Day War. However, by law, Israel strips Arabs of their Jerusalem residency if they remain outside the city for more than three months. Arab residents have the same rights as Israeli citizens, except the right to vote in national elections. They do have the right to vote in municipal elections and are eligible to apply for citizenship. Many choose not to seek citizenship out of solidarity with Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and because they believe East Jerusalem should be the capital of an independent Palestinian state. East Jerusalem's Arab population does not receive a share of municipal services proportionate to its numbers. Arabs in East Jerusalem do have the right to vote in Palestinian Authority elections. Under the 1948 Law of Return, all Jewish immigrants and their immediate family are granted Israeli citizenship and residency rights; other immigrants must apply for these same rights.

While extended full political rights, some one million Arab citizens of Israel (roughly 19 percent of the population) receive inferior education, housing, and social services relative to the Jewish population. Arab-Israelis are not subject to the military draft [otherwise they would be killing their extended families], though they may serve voluntarily. Those who do not join the army are not eligible for financial benefits-including scholarships and housing loans- available to Israelis who have served."

This is in Israel, not the prison states of Gaza or West Bank.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Your actions speak much louder than your empty words.

Uh, what actions? What a weak response. Snowman's words are far from 'empty', IMO.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
How is the conflict going to be resolved peacefully by the UN.

It's rather complicated, but I assure you all the nations of the world who vote to do so every year for decades understand how to accomplish that goal. I can't expect you to understand though, as you are obviously intent on Israel continuing it's conquest over what little of Palestine is left.

At least all Hamas demands is for Israel to accept Palestinians rights as the UN affirms them constantly. You on the other hand promote this senseless violence out of an insistence on denying Palestinians those right, with callous disregard to the death and destruction Israel's ongoing conquest brings to both sides. You are worse than Hamas.

Another part of the answer to CC: the US needs to stop blindly and corruptly abusing its veto power to block any measure the world agrees on affecting Israel.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
How is the conflict going to be resolved peacefully by the UN.

It's rather complicated, but I assure you all the nations of the world who vote to do so every year for decades understand how to accomplish that goal. I can't expect you to understand though, as you are obviously intent on Israel continuing it's conquest over what little of Palestine is left.

At least all Hamas demands is for Israel to accept Palestinians rights as the UN affirms them constantly. You on the other hand promote this senseless violence out of an insistence on denying Palestinians those right, with callous disregard to the death and destruction Israel's ongoing conquest brings to both sides. You are worse than Hamas.

Another part of the answer to CC: the US needs to stop blindly and corruptly abusing its veto power to block any measure the world agrees on affecting Israel.

For many years, the vetos were due to the Soviet/Arab camp generating resolutions that would be favorable to the Arabs at the expense of Israel.

The UN only resolves conflicts when it goes into an area in force and stays active in seperating the combatants. If the UN sits in their camps, then it is up to the combatants to honor any agreement.

If the US feels that a resolution unfairly targets Israel then it has the right/obligation to veto it.

 

[Lemon law]

While Israel with drew from Gaza before Obama was inaugurated, it now looks like Obama may have to weigh in as many serious groups are charging Israel with war crimes over the the use of white phosphorous
shells in the Gaza incursion, I wish I could find the link but it seems gone from where I remember seeing it.

But if the Israeli war crimes issue hits the UN, we may get one of two clear indications of future Obama policy regarding his future mid-east policy stance with the Israeli Palestinian dispure.

(1) Obama many instruct our UN Ambassador to veto any probes. (2) Obama may decide not to veto any such probes.

And then there may be an Obama transparent policy, of vetoing this time with a private or semi private warning sent to Israel that this will be the last time we will save Israel's butt on any war crimes charges.
And since a totally private message will cause Israel to call out its pro-Israeli lobby to sic on Obama, he might as well make any Israeli warnings more publicly.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
While Israel with drew from Gaza before Obama was inaugurated, it now looks like Obama may have to weigh in as many serious groups are charging Israel with war crimes over the the use of white phosphorous
shells in the Gaza incursion, I wish I could find the link but it seems gone from where I remember seeing it.

But if the Israeli war crimes issue hits the UN, we may get one of two clear indications of future Obama policy regarding his future mid-east policy stance with the Israeli Palestinian dispure.

(1) Obama many instruct our UN Ambassador to veto any probes. (2) Obama may decide not to veto any such probes.

And then there may be an Obama transparent policy, of vetoing this time with a private or semi private warning sent to Israel that this will be the last time we will save Israel's butt on any war crimes charges.
And since a totally private message will cause Israel to call out its pro-Israeli lobby to sic on Obama, he might as well make any Israeli warnings more publicly.

Jesus fucking christ. Hamas launches rockets for months at civilian populations, blows up discos and buses and weddings, and you think Israel are the war criminals. If Israel wanted to level all of palestine, it is within its power to do so. It chooses not to. If Hamas had the means to wreak more havoc and destruction on Israel it would do so immediately. If Obama doesn't push for prosucting war crimes a nation under perpetual terrorist attack that has shown remarkable restraint then it will say very little about him other than that he's not a fucking idiot.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
For many years, the vetos were due to the Soviet/Arab camp generating resolutions that would be favorable to the Arabs at the expense of Israel.

The UN only resolves conflicts when it goes into an area in force and stays active in seperating the combatants. If the UN sits in their camps, then it is up to the combatants to honor any agreement.

If the US feels that a resolution unfairly targets Israel then it has the right/obligation to veto it.

The resolutions have always been equally fair to both parties on the basis of international law, but that hasn't stopped Israel from finding a nation with veto power to block them, that nation being the US for the past few decades.

Also, the UN can impose the sections and divorcement programs to cut Israel from the means to perpetuate their conquest over what little of Palestine is left, just like the UN cut South Africa off from the means to perpetrate apartheid. Or at least the UN can end this conlifct, if only US veto power would stop blocking the world from doing so.

Originally posted by: jonks
Jesus fucking christ. Hamas launches rockets for months at civilian populations, blows up discos and buses and weddings, and you think Israel are the war criminals. If Israel wanted to level all of palestine, it is within its power to do so. It chooses not to. If Hamas had the means to wreak more havoc and destruction on Israel it would do so immediately. If Obama doesn't push for prosucting war crimes a nation under perpetual terrorist attack that has shown remarkable restraint then it will say very little about him other than that he's not a fucking idiot.

You are fucking idiot if you can't acknowledge the fact that Israel has put Palestine under perpetual terrorist attack since long before there was any Hamas. Furthermore, while Hamas most certainly commits warcrimes, and Israel obviously could commit far greater ones than they do, that does nothing to excuse the flagrant warcrimes Israel continues to perpetrate their ongoing conquest over Palestine.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Heres what I see. I see alot of you guys getting religion real soon . Just remember Choice. Your going to have to make them . Just remember . They can't stop this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONV8ZwzAoY4

The rich folks got there places in the great underground Bunkers. But those places of hiding shall fall first, This is the beginning not the end . act accordingly.

 

[smokeyjoe]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Heres what I see. I see alot of you guys getting religion real soon . Just remember Choice. Your going to have to make them . Just remember . They can't stop this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONV8ZwzAoY4

The rich folks got there places in the great underground Bunkers. But those places of hiding shall fall first, This is the beginning not the end . act accordingly.

I'd like a second opinion.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Hows this . Even tho he says we have NO Choice I say YOU DO . Please for your spirit just say NO its your chouce . You can't stop it but you do not need to part take, Go threw the suffering of resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...0SGzxY&feature=related

 

[smokeyjoe]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Hows this . Even tho he says we have NO Choice I say YOU DO . Please for your spirit just say NO its your chouce . You can't stop it but you do not need to part take, Go threw the suffering of resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...0SGzxY&feature=related

I meant a second opinion about Nibiru.. not the NWO, I'm familiar with that.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Why's everyone so scared. The a Reason for it. Once the world population sees this thing all hells going to break loose . So they need to make something happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...khKOrI&feature=related

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Why's everyone so scared. The a Reason for it. Once the world population sees this thing all hells going to break loose . So they need to make something happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...khKOrI&feature=related

get out your tin foil hats...rofl...hahahaaa

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Hows this . Even tho he says we have NO Choice I say YOU DO . Please for your spirit just say NO its your chouce . You can't stop it but you do not need to part take, Go threw the suffering of resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...0SGzxY&feature=related

Wow, if that's not the worst sort of ignorant, paranoid McCarthyist video ever made...

It fits exactly the pattern of "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" (google the article).

There are real and legitimate issues with global politics, with the threat of 'global government' forming whether as government or the corporatocracy or a combination.

But this sort of trips - latching on to a phrase like 'New World Order' and linking it to Obama and showing marching Nazis - is idiotic - at risk of insulting other idiotic things.