Israel celebrates its 60th Anniversary

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: wwswimming

our inexplicable relationship with them is certainly at odds with most of what our founding fathers believed...

true.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

http://www.palestineremembered...re/Maps/Story1261.html

"A very IMPORTANT MAP showing the massive destruction of Palestinian villages and cities"

Originally posted by: BoomerD
And the USA celebrates its 60th year of propping them up...financially and militarily.

yes.

Want some pictures of the markets after a suicide bomber exploded there killing woman and children? I'm sure I can drudge up some good ones. Nice unbiased sources there, good old propaganda.

If you got them, show them, this is real people being killed and i don't think they get that.

The Israelis are doing the right thing here, they are fighting for their right to live.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The JOS giant delusion is here---Now, if Israel would open up though, to show the Palestinians that they do not hate them

First Israel disenfranchised the Palestinians while taking their land, then herded them into concentrations camps, and for this the Palestinian people are supposed to LOVE ISRAEL??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Earth to JOS, the right to return still drives this conflict. And if Israel would open up and return the land, you might be right.
But to add injury to insult, Israel keeps settling on the disputed land in which a future Palestinian State might be made up of.

And THIS is why peace will not prevail, you may SAY you propagate for it but you do not understand the words you are saying.

And you are among the most ignorant stupid fucks around, you are TELLING me what i just fucking wrote as if i needed to be informed on the matter, you wouldn't even fucking know if i didn't write it before you you superstupid twat.

This reminds me of our old days, where you don't quote my posts but comment on parts of them saying what i just said and pretending it's your fucking idea, you're REALLY fucking stupid.

It just makes me angry, very angry. Mostly because you don't even care, you don't have anything invested.

 

[Lemon law]

What an idiot JOS paints himself to be. The Israelis are not fighting for the right to live, they are fighting for the right to pig it all. To some extent the Palestinians and the Arabs are fighting for the right to pig it all, but since when does one group trump the right of the other? If anything, the Palestinians are the big losers here.

For a damn poster whose signature line is----------------Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves, Britains never ever ever will be slaves.

You seem remarkable missing in action when another people suffers the same fate.

What ever has happened to an external standard of fairness? Evidently, we can not look for it in you.

 

[Lemon law]

Now JOS really screws the pooch with---This reminds me of our old days, where you don't quote my posts but comment on parts of them saying what i just said and pretending it's your fucking idea, you're REALLY fucking stupid.

It just makes me angry, very angry. Mostly because you don't even care, you don't have anything invested.

Let me see JOS, can I get my arms around this concept, because you are actively involved in yet another British failure of an occupation, you have something invested, and those uninvolved but smarter have nothing invested in world peace. HATE TO TELL YOU JOS, WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING INVESTED IN WORLD PEACE. AND YOU CAN BE PART OF THE SOLUTION OR PART OF THE PROBLEM.

THE FACT THE YOU HAVE SELF DECLARED YOURSELF TO BE PART OF THE PROBLEM SPEAKS ONLY TO YOUR LACK OF HUMANITY. You should not be angry, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Aimster
Egyptian government > Islamic Egypt

Says who? You? There are many Islamic governments around the world that are better than what we have in Egypt. One of the best is the one currently ruling Turkey right now. You fail at the fact that Egypt is suppressing its people in so many ways yet you have the gall for whining because Israel is richer than Egypt. That's like blaming a rich man for a poor man's poverty.

Turkey's government is not Islamic.....

Turkey is a democratic system.

The rulers of Egypt are all Muslim too. Doesn't mean they are an Islamic nation.

There are two Islamic governments.
Iran and Saudi Arabia.

They run on the principal that everything is Islam. Turkey and Egypt do not even come close.

You are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. You seem to imply that an Islamic government is not compatible with democracy. And the current AK Party in Turkey is an Islamic party. They currently run the country so that makes theirs an Islamic government.

Turkey is not an Islamic nation. They are Muslim but if they implement any of the rules that Iran or Saudi Arabia have in place their military will step in and overthrow the government.

Turkey's government is held in check by their own military which is the pride of Turkey.

The ruling party cannot even pass the removal of the headscarf ban because courts in Turkey are saying that it goes against the constitution which is to remain secular.

First you said Islamic government, now you say Islamic nation. You really are confused. An example of an Islamic nation with a democratic history would be Pakistan.

All Muslim nations are "Islamic nations"

I am talking about governments like Iran and Saudi Arabia that are ruled by the words of their mullahs/quran/etc.

those are called theocracies. There are two in the Muslim world (conservatively defined) and one in the Christian world. What's your point again?

Why are you telling me what they are called?
You are suggesting Turkey is like Iran/Saudi Arabia.

If you cannot link what I am saying to what you are saying then all hope is lost in this.

You are clearly confused because I never suggested Turkey was like Iran/Saudi Arabia. I said Turkey is ruled by an Islamic government. Iran/SA are Islamic nations. But so is Pakistan and a host of other countries. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here.

Every ruler of all Muslim nations is Muslim.... that is not what I was talking about

 

[tvarad]

In response to:

"I don't know how popular Al Qaeda is inside Egypt, but would you honestly risk giving up a pro-U.S government for a democratic government that could be anti-west?"

Dari writes:

"Yes. It would legitimize our response to their government, which speaks for the people."

That's a noble thought, but the minute elections are held, the mullahs manouver themselves into power by claiming to be Allah's representatives on earth which gives them a divine right to rule (with a helping hand from the ruling repressive regime, no doubt). Once elected, they start applying their ideological solutions to the country's problems: long beards, burqas, five-times a day prayers and so on. They intimidate everyone into going along, especially the misogynous part so inherent in their illiterate minds. When this doesn't work they figure out what is really wrong: "The cause for all the country's problems is because Israel is occupying Palestine with no little help from Western nations with the U.S. being the biggest culprit".

Greater injustices (if you can call it that) than the creation of Israel have occured in man's recent history (the Armenian massacres, Chinese cultural revolution and Stalin's purges where millions died, Tibetan occupation, the hacking of the Indian sub-continent into India and Pakistan with a meat-cleaver and so on). But the Arabs/Muslims will have you think that the creation of a country the size of a large U.S. metropolitan area was the end of the world.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: tvarad

In response to:

"I don't know how popular Al Qaeda is inside Egypt, but would you honestly risk giving up a pro-U.S government for a democratic government that could be anti-west?"

Dari writes:

"Yes. It would legitimize our response to their government, which speaks for the people."

That's a noble thought, but the minute elections are held, the mullahs manouver themselves into power by claiming to be Allah's representatives on earth which gives them a divine right to rule (with a helping hand from the ruling repressive regime, no doubt). Once elected, they start applying their ideological solutions to the country's problems: long beards, burqas, five-times a day prayers and so on. They intimidate everyone into going along, especially the misogynous part so inherent in their illiterate minds. When this doesn't work they figure out what is really wrong: "The cause for all the country's problems is because Israel is occupying Palestine with no little help from Western nations with the U.S. being the biggest culprit".

Greater injustices (if you can call it that) than the creation of Israel have occured in man's recent history (the Armenian massacres, Chinese cultural revolution and Stalin's purges where millions died, Tibetan occupation, the hacking of the Indian sub-continent into India and Pakistan with a meat-cleaver and so on). But the Arabs/Muslims will have you think that the creation of a country the size of a large U.S. metropolitan area was the end of the world.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sadly for the Palestinian people, the creation of the State of Israel has been the end of their world. As they suddenly became third class citizens in the land of their birth. And for their pains, they get stripped of their land and herded into concentration camps.

What is wrong with you tvarad? Or are you just clueless? How the hell would you feel if it happened to you?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Now, Lemon Law really is an assfucker when he says. "i don't know"

And that is all folks, i'm not going to argue with people who have NO insight and refuse to take in information from those who do.

The biggest problem with the US and the UK isn't the politicians, it's the dafter than daft voters like Lemon, he'd defend Obama if he's invade Iran even though he has always said that that would be a stupid move.

People in general are fucking stupid, the more i read this partisan shit or how people "know" shit when they have absolutely no experience on the issues and have never even had to leave their homes to form their opinions, now that is STUPID to think that i, in Kabul, really need your twatetty advice you dumb fuck.

Oh, and you are not part of the problem, it's you and those like you that ARE the problem, you sit at your arses at home, not ready to even lift a fat finger to do anything about anything, do you think your WORDS will help raped girls in Afghanistan? How about NO, you are worthless on your arse and somehow i think you'd be even worse on your feet.

Don't tell me shit, you don't have the authority nor have you earned a fucking thing in your pathetic life, when you have done sometthing, anything at all, THEN you may adress me but do that in a civil manner and it's SIR to you dumbfuck.

You should be banned from posting, you never add anything but your stupid "me too" opinion that you inject into every thread, you are boring the living daylights out of me and i am not asking you, i am telling you to SHUT THE FUCK UP for once in your pathetic little life.

Can you do that for the rest of this week? Probably not, eh?

Your grandfather knew how to serve in siclence, you don't serve anyone but yourself and you are a loudmouth, it matters not if you know anything on the issue, you HAVE to flap your trap constantly, even when you yourself KNOW that you do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

 

[tvarad]

LemonLaw,

Now there's a crock. In 1948, the Arab states encourages Palestinians to leave their homes because their superior warrior skills would re-conquer Israel and they'd be back in their homes in no a couple of days. A couple of decades later after trying everything in their power to unseat Israel from the Middle-East, at the expense of creating brittle societies of their own, they couldn't keep that promise. That's the basic cause of the misery of the Palestinians.

If other countries/societies that I mentioned have gone through magnitudes greater upheaval and adjusted to the modern world without longing for the good ole times that are never come back, the Palestinians can too. And I'll even bet that if it's between just the Palestinians and Israelis, they will reach some solution between themselves. It is a problem that is eminently solvable but there are too many parasitic interests in the Middle East that will not let it happen.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: tvarad
LemonLaw,

Now there's a crock. In 1948, the Arab states encourages Palestinians to leave their homes because their superior warrior skills would re-conquer Israel and they'd be back in their homes in no a couple of days. A couple of decades later after trying everything in their power to unseat Israel from the Middle-East, at the expense of creating brittle societies of their own, they couldn't keep that promise. That's the basic cause of the misery of the Palestinians.

If other countries/societies that I mentioned have gone through magnitudes greater upheaval and adjusted to the modern world without longing for the good ole times that are never come back, the Palestinians can too. And I'll even bet that if it's between just the Palestinians and Israelis, they will reach some solution between themselves. It is a problem that is eminently solvable but there are too many parasitic interests in the Middle East that will not let it happen.

He won't read a word you say, he has his opinion and right or wrong doesn't matter to the types of fools like him.

But your post is not wasted, there are others that might understand what you and i already know.

If it had been wales against England or Mexico against the US with hundreds of rockets raining down on the civilian population each week we would not have shown one tenth of the restraint that ISrael is showing, we would have fucked them up so bad that no more rockets could ever be shot.

Lemon absolutely refuses to see that over one hundred rockets a week IS a declaration of war that enables Israel to take out all of Hamas, unfortunantly, as Hamas love to kill children, they hide in the rooms of children (schools and bedrooms in housing project that Israel are STILL funding).

Lemon, i have asked you before and even asked you nicely by saying please, don't take anything out of context and add your own stupid antics to it, just quote, i've seen you do it so you obviously know how, can you fucking do that for me, pretty please with sugar on top?

 

[Lemon law]

The question is, JOS, who is the fool? In terms of taking things out of context, you act as if Israel is the aggrieved party after they disenfranchised three million people and stole their land. I would think you would be smart enough to see both sides of the question, but instead you buy every Israeli argument hook line and sinker.

I suppose you will next argue that bank robbers have a right to retaliate against the police because they are shooting at them.

For once in your damn life, can't you learn that there are more than one side to an argument? And just because you fight on the losing side, it hardly gives you any moral high ground.

But maybe that is what we should expect from a BRIT, never in the entire history of the world, has one single nation lost more of its former empire than the British have lost in the past century. That takes truly inspired stupidity. Pardon me, as an American, I hardly want to see my country follow the British model.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The question is, JOS, who is the fool? In terms of taking things out of context, you act as if Israel is the aggrieved party after they disenfranchised three million people and stole their land. I would think you would be smart enough to see both sides of the question, but instead you buy every Israeli argument hook line and sinker.

I suppose you will next argue that bank robbers have a right to retaliate against the police because they are shooting at them.

For once in your damn life, can't you learn that there are more than one side to an argument? And just because you fight on the losing side, it hardly gives you any moral high ground.

But maybe that is what we should expect from a BRIT, never in the entire history of the world, has one single nation lost more of its former empire than the British have lost in the past century. That takes truly inspired stupidity. Pardon me, as an American, I hardly want to see my country follow the British model.

I disagree with your Israel stance Lemon, but I does lolz I does

 

[BoomerD]

I thought this opinion piece in this morning's paper was particularly appropriate for this thread:

http://www.modbee.com/opinion/...onal/story/293448.html

How many years does Israel have left?
last updated: May 09, 2008 02:57:01 AM

When Israel's independence was proclaimed in Tel Aviv on May 14, 1948, as leaders of the nascent state sang "Hatikva" (The Hope), few could have imagined the vibrant state that exists today.

The Zionist movement was a reaction to European anti-Semitism and pogroms that climaxed with the Nazi slaughter of 6 million Jews.

But Arab states and the Palestinians had rejected the 1947 U.N. partition of British mandate Palestine into two states, one Jewish, one Arab. A civil war between Palestinians and Jews had been raging for months, and the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq were poised to invade.

Yet Israel survived that war and the wars that followed. On its 60th anniversary, however, a different kind of existential threat haunts the country. It is not a nuclear- armed Iran, nor a terrorist bomb, nor does it come from Israel's Arab neighbors.

The threat can be summed up in one word: demography. Unless Israel and the Palestinians can agree on a formula for two states living side by side, the number of Palestinian Arabs under Israeli control probably will outnumber Jews within the next two decades. And that could spell the end of the Jewish state.
"If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip), then, as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished." That statement was made by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, not by Jimmy Carter, whose comparisons between Israel's behavior and apartheid have drawn fire.

What Olmert fears is graphically illustrated by the numbers.

According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, its population is 7,282,000, of whom 20.1 percent are Palestinian Arab citizens. On the West Bank and Gaza, according to 2008 figures in the CIA's World Factbook, an additional 4.2 million Palestinians live.

Hebrew University demographer Sergio DellaPergola projects that by 2020 Jews will compose only 44 percent to 47 percent of the combined population in Israel and the occupied territories. He also projects that by 2050 "the Jewish share might diminish to 35 to 37 percent." If Israel keeps control of the West Bank and Gaza, the disenfranchised Palestinian majority will start demanding the right to vote inside Israel. And, as Olmert (not Carter) has said, the world will start comparing the Israel-Palestinian conflict "to a South African one." Yet a Palestinian majority that voted inside greater Israel would seek a Palestinian Arab state, and an end to the Jewish homeland.

In the bitter, tribal politics of the Middle East, ethnic groups seek communal, not individual, rights at the expense of other communities. Think Lebanon or Iraq, where voters cling to sectarian parties that cement ethnic and religious divisions. There is no way that both Palestinians and Israelis can pursue their national rights within one state.

That demographic reality was why the late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin endorsed the Oslo Accords, which aimed at creating two states. But Oslo failed, souring both sides on the peace process.

Olmert and former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon -- both hawks on the Palestinian issue -- also recognized the demographic danger. That is why they endorsed a unilateral Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. But this unilateral step -- which undercut Palestinian moderates who favor negotiations -- only made the problem worse.

So on its 60th anniversary, Israel faces a crossroads. The country is economically and militarily strong, despite the threats it faces from rockets fired by Hamas or Hezbollah. It reportedly has a second-strike nuclear capacity, which would sober any regional power that might acquire nuclear weapons, including Iran.

But Israel has yet to find a route toward a two-state solution with the Palestinians that can resolve the Israeli demographic crisis. And in this critical endeavor, the Annapolis peace process godfathered by the White House has been a flop.

Israeli and Palestinian leadership is weak and appears to have accomplished little on a final status agreement. But the White House has been unwilling to press for the one gesture that might galvanize some progress and is required by Bush's road map for peace: an Israeli halt to all building in Jewish settlements on the West Bank.

Olmert has insisted Israel has the right to continue building in some settlements, and the White House has remained passive.

Instead, Condoleezza Rice is demanding meaningless declarations of progress by the two sides before Bush's arrival in Jerusalem next week. Such window-dressing is pointless -- a sad sign of an administration that fails to grasp the urgency of the situation.

If the two-state concept is to be saved, a more active presidential role in the Annapolis process is crucial. On its 60th anniversary, Israel can stand up to external challenges. But, unresolved, the demographic challenge will eat at the country from within.
Rubin's e-mail address is trubin@phillynews.com.


The way I read this piece, if the Palestinians will stop fighting and start fucking, they can outnumber the Jews within a few years and take over by sheer numbers...kind of like the Mexicans are trying to do here in the USA...

 

[Aimster]

Israel will push those Palestinians out. They will not make them part of Israel

 

[Orignal Earl]

Stop the settlers, stop most of the drama

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
And the USA celebrates its 60th year of propping them up...financially and militarily.

Review your history before making such broad statements.

France was their main military supporter for the first 20+ years.

The US did not get seriously involved until after the '67 conflict.

 

[Lemon law]

I somewhat disagree with Rubin. The organized and well armed minority often rules. Take Iraq for example, when Saddam was pushed out, his minority Sunni faction was only 20% of the Iraqi population. Yet that same faction had held power since Iraq was first cobbled together out of the left over bits of the former Ottoman empire. And of the major groups of Sunni, Shia, and Kurd, its the Sunnis that are the big losers in a democratic Iraq. And also receive the majority
hatreds for their past dominance, regardless if they individually engaged in repressive acts or not. Historically speaking,
religious differences can be divisive in any society, but when economic opportunity is distributed along religious lines, those religious differences become explosive.

In general, we collectively don't like religious states like Iran or the State formed by the taliban in Afghanistan, yet many go ga ga over allowing a solely jewish one in Israel. And in terms of Olmert contention, most of the world already views Israel in much the same way as it viewed the former South Africa. In the case of South Africa, it averted a bloody majority takeover largely due to the wisdom of people like Nelson Mandella and Desmond Tutu as it transitioned into a one State solution. Yet a comparable trainwreck exists nearby in Zimbawe under the stupidity of Mugabe as he pushed the technologically superior whites out of management of farms. And now the country starves.

Yet back in Israel, the demographic time bomb keeps ticking as a two state solution is far less viable now than it was in 1990. Simple because Israel is rapidly settling on the disputed land it annexed during the 1967 war. And now there is no viable land left to form a Palestinian State out of. Meaning that any resolution of the conflict must increasingly look to either a one state solution in which Jews and Palestinians have equal rights or the more horrifying prospect of the hugely disproportionate Muslim majority finally pushing the Jews into the sea.

Sadly, Israel, almost by design, is a State resistant to assimilation. Unlike most of the world's religions, Judaism is not an evangelical religion that seeks converts. Membership is restricted through the maternal line. And the State itself strictly segregates into groups with no traditions of Jews working with Palestinians. From birth, they are educated in different schools, serving in the military is restricted almost 100% to Jews, and all the good jobs only go to those who have served in the Israeli military. In short, its a society that is almost guaranteed to nurture both hatreds and stereotypes. And the different groups could be in fairly close proximity, but might as well come from two different planets.

But still, psychotically speaking, studies show, even two totally different groups can come together when they work together towards a common goal. That was the original promise of Israel that has been lost through the common faults of many. Its my hope that the promise can be regained. Because the alternatives are too horrifying to contemplate.

 

[BoomerD]

Here are some interesting figures on how much aid the US has provided to Israel since 1949:
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Summary
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240


If the Jews are so rich, (as one poster already opined, ) why aren't they supporting Israel instead of the American Taxpayers, most of whom could probably think of far better ways to spend that $$$.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Here are some interesting figures on how much aid the US has provided to Israel since 1949:
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Summary
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240


If the Jews are so rich, (as one poster already opined, ) why aren't they supporting Israel instead of the American Taxpayers, most of whom could probably think of far better ways to spend that $$$.

American Jews give at least $1 BILLION to Israel annually via various means.

The numbers you mentioned are Jewish influence on American foreign policy. Again, the more influential you are in a country, the more you count.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
And the USA celebrates its 60th year of propping them up...financially and militarily.

Good for the USA in supporting the only nation in the Middle East that stands for Western Civilization--in this context--reason, individual rights, representative democracy, secular government.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
:thumbsdown: 60 years of illegal occupation.

Illegal? According to who? Monarchies? Dictatorships? Theocratic states? Terrorist gangs that end up oppressing their own people and do their own people no good? People who would rather engage in violence against Israel instead of working to get their own houses in order?

What's amazing is just how much restraint and charity Israel has used over the years. If the Israelis had had a Soviet or Chinese mentality (or an Islamic mentality) they would already have dominion over the Middle East and they would have long since enslaved, expelled, or exterminated the Arabs while reaping the oil riches.

 

[imported_dna]

Heh, this looks like a UN lynching session.

I'm not gonna comment about current aid, but I think a historical perspective is necessary: at a time when just about the entire Middle East was under the auspices of the Soviet Union, it was worth having a dependable ally in the region who could field-test your weapons against soviet hardware, as well as provide a sneak peek at soviet hardware every now end then (such as with the at the time top of the line Mig-21).

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
:thumbsdown: 60 years of illegal occupation.

Illegal? According to who? Monarchies? Dictatorships? Theocratic states? Terrorist gangs that end up oppressing their own people and do their own people no good? People who would rather engage in violence against Israel instead of working to get their own houses in order?

What's amazing is just how much restraint and charity Israel has used over the years. If the Israelis had had a Soviet or Chinese mentality (or an Islamic mentality) they would already have dominion over the Middle East and they would have long since enslaved, expelled, or exterminated the Arabs while reaping the oil riches.

Illegal according to the International Court of Justice. It IS an illegal occupation and you will NOT get around that.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: dna
Heh, this looks like a UN lynching session.

I'm not gonna comment about current aid, but I think a historical perspective is necessary: at a time when just about the entire Middle East was under the auspices of the Soviet Union, it was worth having a dependable ally in the region who could field-test your weapons against soviet hardware, as well as provide a sneak peek at soviet hardware every now end then (such as with the at the time top of the line Mig-21).

If anything, current Russian involvement in the mid-east is missing in action.

Its still has not solved a damn thing.

But cheer up, when the vicious peace monger Gorbachev waved the white flag and surrendered, it did throw a monkey wrench into our military industrial complex. Fortunately they were able to effortlessly replace that red under every bed with a terrorist seeking 72 virgins. Silly terrorists, GWB had already screwed every virgin pooch in the country long before.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
:thumbsdown: 60 years of illegal occupation.

Illegal? According to who? Monarchies? Dictatorships? Theocratic states? Terrorist gangs that end up oppressing their own people and do their own people no good? People who would rather engage in violence against Israel instead of working to get their own houses in order?

What's amazing is just how much restraint and charity Israel has used over the years. If the Israelis had had a Soviet or Chinese mentality (or an Islamic mentality) they would already have dominion over the Middle East and they would have long since enslaved, expelled, or exterminated the Arabs while reaping the oil riches.

Illegal according to the International Court of Justice. It IS an illegal occupation and you will NOT get around that.

You should work for the DNC if you're gonna say that and mean it.