Israel Bombing footage

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: maluckey
OK,

to avoid all the Nancys and Harriets in the thread.........

The RATIONAL consensus is that Hamas started this round. The conversational dialogue stopped in this thread at that point.

All you military "geniuses" that haven't even been in a fistfight should sit and listen until you understand the reality of war. War sucks and people die....horribly, and at times in great numbers. It's a tragedy....yeah...we get it. We also get that not killing makes you feel better about what you are, but actually solves nothing in the face of a determined enemy (Imagine Hitler allowed to roam free while you complained that German civilians were killed). The only way to defeat an enemy is to take away either their ability to fight (a temporary solution), or the very will to fight. There has NEVER been another way.

Israel has so far concentrated on denial and mitigation of attacks against them. This tactic has served them up a nice steaming cup of FAIL for decades. The reality is an ugly truth that man is violent and will kill to suit his needs. You, I, Hamas and Israel all share the same humanity. The differences can be seen when you compare what one would do to the other if given the chance without restrictions.

Does anyone doubt that Israel could wipe the West Bank off of the map? Why haven't they? Answer this and the whole situation is clear.

Either side can pick any arbitrary point and say that was the start of the latest round of fighting. And therefor they are in the right as far as attacking the other side.

We have already seen what Israel would do. Force the arabs off their land to living in Ghettos. Who knows what the arabs would do if given the chance.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: maluckey
OK,

to avoid all the Nancys and Harriets in the thread.........

The RATIONAL consensus is that Hamas started this round. The conversational dialogue stopped in this thread at that point.

All you military "geniuses" that haven't even been in a fistfight should sit and listen until you understand the reality of war. War sucks and people die....horribly, and at times in great numbers. It's a tragedy....yeah...we get it. We also get that not killing makes you feel better about what you are, but actually solves nothing in the face of a determined enemy (Imagine Hitler allowed to roam free while you complained that German civilians were killed). The only way to defeat an enemy is to take away either their ability to fight (a temporary solution), or the very will to fight. There has NEVER been another way.

Israel has so far concentrated on denial and mitigation of attacks against them. This tactic has served them up a nice steaming cup of FAIL for decades. The reality is an ugly truth that man is violent and will kill to suit his needs. You, I, Hamas and Israel all share the same humanity. The differences can be seen when you compare what one would do to the other if given the chance without restrictions.

Does anyone doubt that Israel could wipe the West Bank off of the map? Why haven't they? Answer this and the whole situation is clear.

This.

Well put.

 

[dahunan]

yes.. you defeat enemies by killing them AND killing INNOCENTS in the process... that definitely defeats and does not create any enemies whatsoever

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yahweh Approves^^^^^^

So, if your MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS neighbor was my enemy and in the process of me killing him/her... THEY GOT BLOWN TO TINY LITTLE PIECES .... You would think your fucking rationale about war was A OK.. right?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: dahunan
yes.. you defeat enemies by killing them AND killing INNOCENTS in the process... that definitely defeats and does not create any enemies whatsoever

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yahweh Approves^^^^^^

So, if your MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS neighbor was my enemy and in the process of me killing him/her... THEY GOT BLOWN TO TINY LITTLE PIECES .... You would think your fucking rationale about war was A OK.. right?

War always sucks. No one is debating that. It would be tragic to have your neighbors die (whether or not they are woman is a bullshit emotional appeal). Hopefully you never have to be in that situation to wonder when one of your friends will have a stray rocket come through there house (from Hamas) or a bomb (from Israel)

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RichardE
When Hamas starts attacking military installations than you can compare them.

Can hamas attack military installations? I mean they can barely get any kills with the homemade rockets. They would be stomped fast if they tried a frontal assault on some military base.

Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: flavio
Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

What would you suggest as a response to terrorists launching rockets from schools, hospitals, and other civilian locales?

Remember, for this exercise, your must defend your people and immediately eliminate the threat to your own civilian population.

So, let's hear it... how would YOU respond?

This question is for any/all to answer -- especially those who are condemning Israel for their response.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RichardE
When Hamas starts attacking military installations than you can compare them.

Can hamas attack military installations? I mean they can barely get any kills with the homemade rockets. They would be stomped fast if they tried a frontal assault on some military base.

Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

So Israel shoud let its people die in some sort of "fairness" bullshit?

Fuck off with your bleeding heart. Maybe you should give AQ nukes to make its war against the US more fair?

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: flavio
Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

What would you suggest as a response to terrorists launching rockets from schools, hospitals, and other civilian locales?

Remember, for this exercise, your must defend your people and immediately eliminate the threat to your own civilian population.

So, let's hear it... how would YOU respond?

This question is for any/all to answer -- especially those who are condemning Israel for their response.

I think you're missing the idea that rocket attacks are a response to attacks Israel has made which in turn were a response to something Palestinians did, which was in response to something that Israel did....and so on and so on.

Now a neat exercise would be to imagine being part of a country that was constantly bullied by a someone with a far superior military, who ignore UN resolutions, is currently occupying much of your land, and have killed far more of your people in terror attacks than you've ever killed of theirs. How do you respond and eliminate the threat?

My answer to both exercises would be diplomatic negotiations and enforcement of current UN resolutions.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RichardE
When Hamas starts attacking military installations than you can compare them.

Can hamas attack military installations? I mean they can barely get any kills with the homemade rockets. They would be stomped fast if they tried a frontal assault on some military base.

Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

So Israel shoud let its people die in some sort of "fairness" bullshit?

Fuck off with your bleeding heart. Maybe you should give AQ nukes to make its war against the US more fair?

No, of course Palestinians should let their people die for your biased bullshit. :roll:

How about you fuck off with your stupid dumbassery. IF you can't tell the difference between the Palestinian/Israeli situation and AQ then you have no business commenting on the situation.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RichardE
When Hamas starts attacking military installations than you can compare them.

Can hamas attack military installations? I mean they can barely get any kills with the homemade rockets. They would be stomped fast if they tried a frontal assault on some military base.

Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

So Israel shoud let its people die in some sort of "fairness" bullshit?

Fuck off with your bleeding heart. Maybe you should give AQ nukes to make its war against the US more fair?

There is a reason for everything. There is a reason why people hate America and Israel. The way America bombs the crap out of countries is not too different from the way Israel does it. Israel can bomb all it wants and defend it by saying that its civilians are threatened.

Please tell me, how many Israeli civilians have been killed by Palestinians vs how many Palestinians have been killed by Israelis.

Same thing goes for Iraq, tell me how many Americans were killed on 9/11 vs how many Iraqis have died since the Iraq war.

It is not right to compare numbers but it is not right to justify wars to kill so many people.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani
Calm down and try to do some actual research before spouting off. Even a quick internet search would show that the casualty count is massively higher on the Palestinian side than the Israeli side. And in case you think they are all terrorists, compare the numbers of women and children killed.

You must have missed my post yesterday about intent being everything... or, are you actually claiming that Israel intends to kill innocent women and children?

If that's what you're point was, then it would certainly be an interesting theory -- one that would require some real evidence to back it up...

As far as high casualty counts on the Palestinian side are concerned, do you place any blame, at all, on the cowardly terrorists who are launching rockets from schools, mosques, housing areas, and other areas where they constantly endanger the civilians? Also, the figures I'm seeing state that roughly 85% of the deaths are militants. What that means to me is that there are an assload of terrorist scumbags in Gaza who need killing, and they are intentionally drawing fire on civilian areas.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What good is positive intent if you end up inflicting orders of magnitude more innocent casualties than your enemies?

Of course Hamas has a huge share of the blame. But Israel is always going to have trouble claiming the moral high ground as long as they are killing massive numbers of civilians.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: flavio
My answer to both exercises would be diplomatic negotiations and enforcement of current UN resolutions.

OK, fair enough. now... if the rockets are continuously being fired during the entire negotiations process, how long would YOU let that go on? days? weeks? years?

Israel has used restraint for decades of endless terrorist attacks -- before, during, and after every series of negotiations.

Question #2:
If Israel withdrew from Gaz tomorrow and halted their airstrikes, do you think the Hamas rockets would stop? Be honest...

Me? I personally believe that the terrorist rockets (and worse) will continue as long as there are any Hamas within striking distance of Israel... therefore, the solutions are obvious: death, total disarmament, and/or expulsion.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani
Calm down and try to do some actual research before spouting off. Even a quick internet search would show that the casualty count is massively higher on the Palestinian side than the Israeli side. And in case you think they are all terrorists, compare the numbers of women and children killed.

You must have missed my post yesterday about intent being everything... or, are you actually claiming that Israel intends to kill innocent women and children?

If that's what you're point was, then it would certainly be an interesting theory -- one that would require some real evidence to back it up...

As far as high casualty counts on the Palestinian side are concerned, do you place any blame, at all, on the cowardly terrorists who are launching rockets from schools, mosques, housing areas, and other areas where they constantly endanger the civilians? Also, the figures I'm seeing state that roughly 85% of the deaths are militants. What that means to me is that there are an assload of terrorist scumbags in Gaza who need killing, and they are intentionally drawing fire on civilian areas.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What good is positive intent if you end up inflicting orders of magnitude more innocent casualties than your enemies?

Of course Hamas has a huge share of the blame. But Israel is always going to have trouble claiming the moral high ground as long as they are killing massive numbers of civilians.

How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani
Calm down and try to do some actual research before spouting off. Even a quick internet search would show that the casualty count is massively higher on the Palestinian side than the Israeli side. And in case you think they are all terrorists, compare the numbers of women and children killed.

You must have missed my post yesterday about intent being everything... or, are you actually claiming that Israel intends to kill innocent women and children?

If that's what you're point was, then it would certainly be an interesting theory -- one that would require some real evidence to back it up...

As far as high casualty counts on the Palestinian side are concerned, do you place any blame, at all, on the cowardly terrorists who are launching rockets from schools, mosques, housing areas, and other areas where they constantly endanger the civilians? Also, the figures I'm seeing state that roughly 85% of the deaths are militants. What that means to me is that there are an assload of terrorist scumbags in Gaza who need killing, and they are intentionally drawing fire on civilian areas.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What good is positive intent if you end up inflicting orders of magnitude more innocent casualties than your enemies?

Of course Hamas has a huge share of the blame. But Israel is always going to have trouble claiming the moral high ground as long as they are killing massive numbers of civilians.

How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

I went to a Bar Mitzvah, once. Two words.

Beef Teriyaki.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani
Calm down and try to do some actual research before spouting off. Even a quick internet search would show that the casualty count is massively higher on the Palestinian side than the Israeli side. And in case you think they are all terrorists, compare the numbers of women and children killed.

You must have missed my post yesterday about intent being everything... or, are you actually claiming that Israel intends to kill innocent women and children?

If that's what you're point was, then it would certainly be an interesting theory -- one that would require some real evidence to back it up...

As far as high casualty counts on the Palestinian side are concerned, do you place any blame, at all, on the cowardly terrorists who are launching rockets from schools, mosques, housing areas, and other areas where they constantly endanger the civilians? Also, the figures I'm seeing state that roughly 85% of the deaths are militants. What that means to me is that there are an assload of terrorist scumbags in Gaza who need killing, and they are intentionally drawing fire on civilian areas.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What good is positive intent if you end up inflicting orders of magnitude more innocent casualties than your enemies?

Of course Hamas has a huge share of the blame. But Israel is always going to have trouble claiming the moral high ground as long as they are killing massive numbers of civilians.

How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

Immediately? The rockets have been falling since mid-November, and have inflicted a grand total of 4 casualties since the "ceasefire" ended. Let's not pretend there's this sudden and immediate threat that needs to be dealt with via shock and awe. And I never claimed to be a military commander, just that I'm not sold on Israel's moral superiority in all of this.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: RichardE

They elected them democratically. Just because they have a democracy does not mean you cannot go to war with them. If the people support there firing rockets in the people are responsible for the governments actions. The shouldn't poke a tiger with a stick and expect the world to help. I don't want civilian causalities, but if it keeps Israel safe I won't cry over it. I am glad they are taking every step possible to minimize them, but war is hell and innocents will die, such is the nature of war.

Maybe in the upcoming election the Palestinian people will make the right choice.

The following findings are for research purposes only, and are not used in clinical diagnosis. These items cover the affective, interpersonal, and behavioral features. Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy.

...
7. Callous / lack of empathy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath

Do you cry when Taliban, and AQ are killed?

I see tragedy in the loss of any person. I support policies consistent with that position.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RichardE
When Hamas starts attacking military installations than you can compare them.

Can hamas attack military installations? I mean they can barely get any kills with the homemade rockets. They would be stomped fast if they tried a frontal assault on some military base.

Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

So Israel shoud let its people die in some sort of "fairness" bullshit?

Fuck off with your bleeding heart. Maybe you should give AQ nukes to make its war against the US more fair?

Maybe the powerful should not oppress the less powerful and there would be a lot less conflict.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RichardE
When Hamas starts attacking military installations than you can compare them.

Can hamas attack military installations? I mean they can barely get any kills with the homemade rockets. They would be stomped fast if they tried a frontal assault on some military base.

Exactly, it's some sort of "might makes right" mentality going on. If the Palestinians had the jets and other military equipment that was even close to Israel's then their tactics would be entirely different.

For now though they have the ability to fire some random rockets in hopes of hitting something while Israel can drop some boms and kills hundreds. Obviously this makes the ones with the airpower and more effective at mass killing the good guys. *rolleyes*

So Israel shoud let its people die in some sort of "fairness" bullshit?

Fuck off with your bleeding heart. Maybe you should give AQ nukes to make its war against the US more fair?

Maybe the powerful should not oppress the less powerful and there would be a lot less conflict.

hahahaa sanctamonious bull crap!!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse
How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

Immediately? The rockets have been falling since mid-November, and have inflicted a grand total of 4 casualties since the "ceasefire" ended. Let's not pretend there's this sudden and immediate threat that needs to be dealt with via shock and awe. And I never claimed to be a military commander, just that I'm not sold on Israel's moral superiority in all of this.

I hope you realize that your answer essentially paraphrases what I said we've been hearing from every other hamas hugger... imagine that.

YES IMMEDIATELY!!

How long must innocent Israeli men, women, and children spend diving in and out of rocket-proof bunkers? How many times a day must they hear the rocket alarms and huddle in fear under their homes? All day... all night... every day... every night...!?

It must end one way or another, and waiting for Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist seems like a bit much to ask... after all, Hamas has sworn, publicly and often, that they'd never do so.

So, we're left with the three options for dealing with Hamas that I listed earlier... death, total disarmament and surrender, or expulsion.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse
How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

Immediately? The rockets have been falling since mid-November, and have inflicted a grand total of 4 casualties since the "ceasefire" ended. Let's not pretend there's this sudden and immediate threat that needs to be dealt with via shock and awe. And I never claimed to be a military commander, just that I'm not sold on Israel's moral superiority in all of this.

I hope you realize that your answer essentially paraphrases what I said we've been hearing from every other hamas hugger... imagine that.

YES IMMEDIATELY!!

How long must innocent Israeli men, women, and children spend diving in and out of rocket-proof bunkers? How many times a day must they hear the rocket alarms and huddle in fear under their homes? All day... all night... every day... every night...!?

It must end one way or another, and waiting for Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist seems like a bit much to ask... after all, Hamas has sworn, publicly and often, that they'd never do so.

So, we're left with the three options for dealing with Hamas that I listed earlier... death, total disarmament and surrender, or expulsion.

Spare me the rhetoric - I'm sure there are worse sob stories on the Palestinian side about innocents who had nothing to do with the rocket attacks having bombs dropped on their heads. The bottom line is that there have 4 Israeli deaths versus 400 on the Palestinian side. I just don't buy into the notion that this discrepancy is justified by "intent".

By the way, using ad-hominem bullshit like calling people who don't agree with you "Hamas Huggers" doesn't help your argument any - it just makes you sound like a tool.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse
How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

Immediately? The rockets have been falling since mid-November, and have inflicted a grand total of 4 casualties since the "ceasefire" ended. Let's not pretend there's this sudden and immediate threat that needs to be dealt with via shock and awe. And I never claimed to be a military commander, just that I'm not sold on Israel's moral superiority in all of this.

I hope you realize that your answer essentially paraphrases what I said we've been hearing from every other hamas hugger... imagine that.

YES IMMEDIATELY!!

How long must innocent Israeli men, women, and children spend diving in and out of rocket-proof bunkers? How many times a day must they hear the rocket alarms and huddle in fear under their homes? All day... all night... every day... every night...!?

It must end one way or another, and waiting for Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist seems like a bit much to ask... after all, Hamas has sworn, publicly and often, that they'd never do so.

So, we're left with the three options for dealing with Hamas that I listed earlier... death, total disarmament and surrender, or expulsion.

Spare me the rhetoric - I'm sure there are worse sob stories on the Palestinian side about innocents who had nothing to do with the rocket attacks having bombs dropped on their heads. The bottom line is that there have 4 Israeli deaths versus 400 on the Palestinian side. I just don't buy into the notion that this discrepancy is justified by "intent".

By the way, using ad-hominem bullshit like calling people who don't agree with you "Hamas Huggers" doesn't help your argument any - it just makes you sound like a tool.

No, you guys sound like tools for aligning yourself with terrorists. kudos for that.

I'd rather have those 4 israelis back than those 400 terrorists.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse
How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

Immediately? The rockets have been falling since mid-November, and have inflicted a grand total of 4 casualties since the "ceasefire" ended. Let's not pretend there's this sudden and immediate threat that needs to be dealt with via shock and awe. And I never claimed to be a military commander, just that I'm not sold on Israel's moral superiority in all of this.

I hope you realize that your answer essentially paraphrases what I said we've been hearing from every other hamas hugger... imagine that.

YES IMMEDIATELY!!

How long must innocent Israeli men, women, and children spend diving in and out of rocket-proof bunkers? How many times a day must they hear the rocket alarms and huddle in fear under their homes? All day... all night... every day... every night...!?

It must end one way or another, and waiting for Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist seems like a bit much to ask... after all, Hamas has sworn, publicly and often, that they'd never do so.

So, we're left with the three options for dealing with Hamas that I listed earlier... death, total disarmament and surrender, or expulsion.

Spare me the rhetoric - I'm sure there are worse sob stories on the Palestinian side about innocents who had nothing to do with the rocket attacks having bombs dropped on their heads. The bottom line is that there have 4 Israeli deaths versus 400 on the Palestinian side. I just don't buy into the notion that this discrepancy is justified by "intent".

By the way, using ad-hominem bullshit like calling people who don't agree with you "Hamas Huggers" doesn't help your argument any - it just makes you sound like a tool.

No, you guys sound like tools for aligning yourself with terrorists. kudos for that.

I'd rather have those 4 israelis back than those 400 terrorists.

Well calling those 400 people terrorists just makes you sound like a moron. I'd rather have one of them back than a complete idiot.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Mani


Spare me the rhetoric - I'm sure there are worse sob stories on the Palestinian side about innocents who had nothing to do with the rocket attacks having bombs dropped on their heads. The bottom line is that there have 4 Israeli deaths versus 400 on the Palestinian side. I just don't buy into the notion that this discrepancy is justified by "intent".

By the way, using ad-hominem bullshit like calling people who don't agree with you "Hamas Huggers" doesn't help your argument any - it just makes you sound like a tool.

No, you guys sound like tools for aligning yourself with terrorists. kudos for that.

I'd rather have those 4 israelis back than those 400 terrorists.

Well calling those 400 people terrorists just makes you sound like a moron. I'd rather have one of them back than a complete idiot.

I'm sure you would.

 

[Harabec]

I laugh and pity armchair generals and politicians who count numbers and demand a fair fight.
We have so few deaths because we manage to stop attacks in time. you never hear about it, never will.
Negotiations with WHO? UN resolutions enforced by WHO?

If the world actually came here with a 50,000-man force to act as a barrier, yeah, we'd all be happy. Until it does (and it never will) we do what we must so that not a single person will get hit.
How many years have we tried the peaceful approach, just to have it explode on us?

btw, no, giving land back is not a realistic option. You might not realize how small Israel is..."moving out of the west bank" or some other idea means moving about 2 meters west. There is nowhere to "go" for us. Therefor, either *we're* protecting ourselves or UN forces will be there, in the west bank and gaza, instead. Not enough room, really.

Last thing - I don't agree with settlements, so don't bother bringing it up. They are indeed a cause for local fights and breeding hate. I just hope we do better in the future, fanatics have been given too much freedom bothering the arabs next to them while we're wasting money having soldiers guarding them. They even fight those soldiers who protect them!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: palehorse
How is it possible to battle Hamas -- ie. stop the incoming rockets immediately -- without inflicting some civilian casualties?

If someone ever comes up with a decent answer to that, I'll buy it.

The problem is, the best any of the Hamas-huggers can come up with is "well gee, the rockets aren't that dangerous... Israel should just tolerate them for as long as they choose to live in the ME"

That's not good enough. So, I'm promoting you to Prime Minister. What would you do to immediately deal with the threat?

Immediately? The rockets have been falling since mid-November, and have inflicted a grand total of 4 casualties since the "ceasefire" ended. Let's not pretend there's this sudden and immediate threat that needs to be dealt with via shock and awe. And I never claimed to be a military commander, just that I'm not sold on Israel's moral superiority in all of this.

I hope you realize that your answer essentially paraphrases what I said we've been hearing from every other hamas hugger... imagine that.

YES IMMEDIATELY!!

How long must innocent Israeli men, women, and children spend diving in and out of rocket-proof bunkers? How many times a day must they hear the rocket alarms and huddle in fear under their homes? All day... all night... every day... every night...!?

It must end one way or another, and waiting for Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist seems like a bit much to ask... after all, Hamas has sworn, publicly and often, that they'd never do so.

So, we're left with the three options for dealing with Hamas that I listed earlier... death, total disarmament and surrender, or expulsion.

Spare me the rhetoric - I'm sure there are worse sob stories on the Palestinian side about innocents who had nothing to do with the rocket attacks having bombs dropped on their heads. The bottom line is that there have 4 Israeli deaths versus 400 on the Palestinian side. I just don't buy into the notion that this discrepancy is justified by "intent".

By the way, using ad-hominem bullshit like calling people who don't agree with you "Hamas Huggers" doesn't help your argument any - it just makes you sound like a tool.

another non-answer...

You'd make one lousy Prime Minster if you allowed your own citizens to live in constant fear for their lives because the enemy's weapons aren't really that accurate... "only four deaths? geez, that's not bad... what's with all the fear guys!?"