Israel blocks Reps. Omar and Tlaib...at Trump’s request

[Jhhnn]

Do losers of wars get to set the terms of resettlement? The two state solution is no solution at all.

So our Israeli friends have been lying to us all along?

 

[Starbuck1975]

You didn't answer my question. Do they even have any options for liberation through peaceful means at this point?

Yes, assuming they are willing to concede certain grievances of their own making and as the loser of previous futile attempts at armed conflict.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So our Israeli friends have been lying to us all along?

Lied about what? I think they’ve appeased a bunch of BS so that American Presidents can claim they’ve “solved” the Middle East dilemma.

 

[fskimospy]

Lied about what? I think they’ve appeased a bunch of BS so that American Presidents can claim they’ve “solved” the Middle East dilemma.

Israel's public stance on the issue has been for decades that it supported the two-state solution while actively building illegal settlements that would render the two-state solution difficult or impossible. There is no chance this was by accident.

 

[emperus]

Plane is probably most efficient, boat if she likes cruises

I'm not sure how serious you are being with this reply. I'm not sure if you are aware that Israel controls the checkpoints into Palestine. So in order for her to visit her family, she needs PERMISSION from Israel.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm not sure how serious you are being with this reply. I'm not sure if you are aware that Israel controls the checkpoints into Palestine. So in order for her to visit her family, she needs PERMISSION from Israel.

I answered the question in the spirit of how it was introduced.

If visiting Palestine is her goal, its probably best that she not flirt with organizations and movements that embrace or humor things like Holocaust denial.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Israel's public stance on the issue has been for decades that it supported the two-state solution while actively building illegal settlements that would render the two-state solution difficult or impossible. There is no chance this was by accident.

I believe I already acknowledged that they’ve humored a solution that is no solution at all while pursuing a strategy based more on necessity given the tendency of their neighbors to use violence as the default negotiating tactic.

 

[fskimospy]

I believe I already acknowledged that they’ve humored a solution that is no solution at all while pursuing a strategy based more on necessity given the tendency of their neighbors to use violence as the default negotiating tactic.

There's no necessity for them to illegally build settlements in the occupied territories, this is a choice they made because they want the land. There is also no discernible relationship between the level of violence Israel experiences and the number of settlements. If anything there seems to be an inverse relationship.

As with the whole apartheid thing if people want to argue that lying to everyone about their support for the two state solution is something they had to do that's fine, but let's just own the fact that they were deliberately lying.

 

[Jhhnn]

Israel's public stance on the issue has been for decades that it supported the two-state solution while actively building illegal settlements that would render the two-state solution difficult or impossible. There is no chance this was by accident.

Starbuck is engaging in willful blindness & denial. Right wing Israelis don't want peace with the Palestinians. They want it all, and they've set out to take it.

 

[Vic]

Yes, assuming they are willing to concede certain grievances of their own making and as the loser of previous futile attempts at armed conflict.

Concede certain grievances like what? The ability to live freely on their own lands?
For example, Palestine is a technically an independent state, recognized by about 3/4's of UN member nations. So why does Tlaib need Israeli govt approval to visit Palestine?

 

[Vic]

I believe I already acknowledged that they’ve humored a solution that is no solution at all while pursuing a strategy based more on necessity given the tendency of their neighbors to use violence as the default negotiating tactic.

Yeah, because holding millions of people behind walls and shooting them if they try to get out isn't violent at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

I believe I already acknowledged that they’ve humored a solution that is no solution at all while pursuing a strategy based more on necessity given the tendency of their neighbors to use violence as the default negotiating tactic.

The last time any of their neighbors actually warred against Israel was 1973. Their neighbors didn't start the shooting in 1982, 1967, 1956 or 1947, for that matter. As far as most of America is concerned, they can get away with damned near anything because Jews were victims of Hitler's mass murder 80 years ago. Poor Jews! OTOH, it's not like we wanted them coming here at the time, so let's give them their own country! Problem solved!

 

[Starbuck1975]

The last time any of their neighbors actually warred against Israel was 1973. Their neighbors didn't start the shooting in 1982, 1967, 1956 or 1947, for that matter. As far as most of America is concerned, they can get away with damned near anything because Jews were victims of Hitler's mass murder 80 years ago. Poor Jews! OTOH, it's not like we wanted them coming here at the time, so let's give them their own country! Problem solved!

Hence the folly and failure of an international governing body in its attempts to solve complex global issues.

Also, you forgot to mention the Palestinian intifada’s which extend hostilities into the current decade.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeah, because holding millions of people behind walls and shooting them if they try to get out isn't violent at all.

When the people behind those walls do not recognize your right to exist and declare Intifada’s against you, its an unfortunate but necessary response.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hence the folly and failure of an international governing body in its attempts to solve complex global issues.

Also, you forgot to mention the Palestinian intifada’s which extend hostilities into the current decade.

People will tend to struggle when you have your boot on their neck, no doubt.

 

[Jhhnn]

When the people behind those walls do not recognize your right to exist and declare Intifada’s against you, its an unfortunate but necessary response.

You don't even know what the word means-

Intifada is an Arabic word literally meaning, as a noun, "tremor", "shivering", "shuddering".[2][3] It is derived from an Arabic term nafada meaning "to shake", "shake off", "get rid of",[2] as a dog might shrug off water, or as one might shake off sleep,[4] or dirt from one's sandals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intifada

 

[Starbuck1975]

People will tend to struggle when you have your boot on their neck, no doubt.

People will tend to put their boot to your neck after blocking your sucker punch.

You don't even know what the word means-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intifada

The word is irrelevant. The intent is a call to violence. Careful @Jhhnn, you’re starting to sound like a Proud Boys apologist.

 

[Jhhnn]

People will tend to put their boot to your neck after blocking your sucker punch.

The word is irrelevant. The intent is a call to violence. Careful @Jhhnn, you’re starting to sound like a Proud Boys apologist.

Yeah, the Israelis do play the victim card for all it's worth. Imagine how we'd feel if they weren't Jewish.

 

[Vic]

When the people behind those walls do not recognize your right to exist and declare Intifada’s against you, its an unfortunate but necessary response.

Yeah, you're still struggling with the issue of that negative feedback loop. And should we care only about Israel's right to exist, and never about anyone else's?

 

[Vic]

Yeah, the Israelis do play the victim card for all it's worth. Imagine how we'd feel if they weren't Jewish.

There seems to be a large number of people who still believe that Israel's ability to exist is still in doubt. As opposed to the reality that Israel won the war a long time ago and is now treating the Palestinians the way conquerors have treated the conquered throughout all of human history.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeah, you're still struggling with the issue of that negative feedback loop. And should we care only about Israel's right to exist, and never about anyone else's?

And you’re struggling with the concept of cause and effect

 

[Vic]

And you’re struggling with the concept of cause and effect

No, I get that just fine, otherwise I wouldn't be pointing out the feedback loop. You agree that the Palestinians are not being allowed a recourse to freedom through peaceful means, but then use that as an excuse to continue denying them a recourse to freedom through peaceful means. Surely you see the problem, yes?

 

[ivwshane]

No, I get that just fine, otherwise I wouldn't be pointing out the feedback loop. You agree that the Palestinians are not being allowed a recourse to freedom through peaceful means, but then use that as an excuse to continue denying them a recourse to freedom through peaceful means. Surely you see the problem, yes?

You are talking to a "both sides" bitch, he can justify anything.

 

[Starbuck1975]

No, I get that just fine, otherwise I wouldn't be pointing out the feedback loop. You agree that the Palestinians are not being allowed a recourse to freedom through peaceful means, but then use that as an excuse to continue denying them a recourse to freedom through peaceful means. Surely you see the problem, yes?

Recourse through peaceful means assumes a genuine attempt at a peaceful resolution, which is hard to achieve when you refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the entity holding all the cards.

 

[Jhhnn]

Recourse through peaceful means assumes a genuine attempt at a peaceful resolution, which is hard to achieve when you refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the entity holding all the cards.

Which means that the Israelis can create Palestinian space simply by withdrawing far enough to give them some. They have that power. They won't, of course. They have this occupation thing down to a science & the American public wrapped around their little finger.

You're also spreading disinformation-

The Oslo process started after secret negotiations in Oslo, resulting in the recognition by the PLO of the State of Israel and the recognition by Israel of the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and as a partner in negotiations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords