Israel blocks Reps. Omar and Tlaib...at Trump’s request

[nickqt]

Which means that the Israelis can create Palestinian space simply by withdrawing far enough to give them some. They have that power. They won't, of course. They have this occupation thing down to a science & the American public wrapped around their little finger.

You're also spreading disinformation-



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

The "occupation" is simply a slow-motion genocide.

 

[Jhhnn]

The "occupation" is simply a slow-motion genocide.

It's not quite that. Not yet, anyway. The Palestinian population is actually growing.

 

[nickqt]

It's not quite that. Not yet, anyway. The Palestinian population is actually growing.

A genocide doesn't start with the outright murder of people. It starts by separating them out from the rest of the world, and turning them into non-entities first. Look at how the person you're responding to already assumes that being a member of that group of people automatically means X, Y, and Z.

 

[Jhhnn]

A genocide doesn't start with the outright murder of people. It starts by separating them out from the rest of the world, and turning them into non-entities first. Look at how the person you're responding to already assumes that being a member of that group of people automatically means X, Y, and Z.

It does leave Bibi & the Zionist zealots in a quandry, huh? To follow thru to a final solution would finally, at long last, turn the US against them. Well, unless too many of us are convinced to depersonalize the pals, as you say. They're real people, flesh & blood, not an abstraction.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Which means that the Israelis can create Palestinian space simply by withdrawing far enough to give them some. They have that power. They won't, of course. They have this occupation thing down to a science & the American public wrapped around their little finger.

What is the incentive for Israel to reduce its security buffer zone?

You're also spreading disinformation-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

No I am not. Israel was naive to believe that Arafat, a terrorist, would be able to transform a terrorist organization into a legitimate security force. Unsurprisingly, the terrorists failed to police terrorism and the accords unraveled.

 

[Jhhnn]

What is the incentive for Israel to reduce its security buffer zone?

No I am not. Israel was naive to believe that Arafat, a terrorist, would be able to transform a terrorist organization into a legitimate security force. Unsurprisingly, the terrorists failed to police terrorism and the accords unraveled.

So, perpetual expropriation & occupation is the only rational choice for the Israelis, obviously. I'm sure Bibi has seen it that way all along.

And you're saying we should support that, for reasons.

 

[Vic]

Recourse through peaceful means assumes a genuine attempt at a peaceful resolution, which is hard to achieve when you refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the entity holding all the cards.

In other words, it's the Palestinians' own fault that there won't be any of them left when this is over.

 

[Vic]

So, perpetual expropriation & occupation is the only rational choice for the Israelis, obviously. I'm sure Bibi has seen it that way all along.

And you're saying we should support that, for reasons.

Those reasons being millenialism Christianity.and the wallets of defense contractors.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So, perpetual expropriation & occupation is the only rational choice for the Israelis, obviously. I'm sure Bibi has seen it that way all along.

And you're saying we should support that, for reasons.

No, I am saying we should completely ignore all historical context and blame Israel, for reasons.

 

[Vic]

No, I am saying we should completely ignore all historical context and blame Israel, for reasons.

This isn't about blame, it's about finding viable peaceful solutions.

 

[Starbuck1975]

This isn't about blame, it's about finding viable peaceful solutions.

Peaceful viable solutions assumes both parties are willing to commit to peace. The Palestinians seem incapable of doing so because they cling to the notion of a nation-state that never existed in the first place and based on an arbitrary British map drawn up during the occupation in the aftermath of WW1.

 

[Starbuck1975]

In other words, it's the Palestinians' own fault that there won't be any of them left when this is over.

Yes, that is how military defeat works. When you choose military force to go for all or nothing, you risk getting nothing.

 

[Jhhnn]

Peaceful viable solutions assumes both parties are willing to commit to peace. The Palestinians seem incapable of doing so because they cling to the notion of a nation-state that never existed in the first place and based on an arbitrary British map drawn up during the occupation in the aftermath of WW1.

A map that arbitrarily favored the Jewish population, which wasn't enough for them.

 

[Jhhnn]

This isn't about blame, it's about finding viable peaceful solutions.

Expropriation & occupation are working just fine as far as Bibi & the settlers are concerned.

 

[UNCjigga]

This isn't about blame, it's about finding viable peaceful solutions.

Israel isn’t interested in a viable, peaceful solution. Just look what happened when terrorism and intifadas were replaced with a global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign. Peaceful protest solution that Israel made illegal...like how dare they be pressured into delivering a 2 state solution???

 

[Starbuck1975]

A map that arbitrarily favored the Jewish population, which wasn't enough for them.

Again, your perspective is informed either by a willful ignorance of history or an irrational hatred for Israel.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Israel isn’t interested in a viable, peaceful solution. Just look what happened when terrorism and intifadas were replaced with a global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign. Peaceful protest solution that Israel made illegal...like how dare they be pressured into delivering a 2 state solution???

Let’s boycott Israel for responding to our terrorism and intifadas!

 

[Jhhnn]

Again, your perspective is informed either by a willful ignorance of history or an irrational hatred for Israel.

Hardly. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 imposed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine on the people who already lived there, whether they wanted it or not. The switch from Ottoman to British rule prompted some land owners to sell, and the Zionists were there to buy. The area they were allotted in the partition far exceeded what they actually owned but it fulfilled that promise. Palestinians already lived there, but so what? It also relieved the pressure to let Jews immigrate to the UK & the US. The Jewish population of Palestine nearly tripled in the 20 years prior to WW2 and then exploded in the wake of WW2.

http://www.tomhull.com/ocston/projects/ajvp/wp1.php

Palestinians went from being citizens of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years to being dispossessed in 50 years. To create a homeland for the Jews so that the rest of us didn't have any moral qualms about not letting them come here. Oh, and the Palestinians were evil for not wanting to accept something we certainly weren't willing to do ourselves, even though our population was huge in comparison.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yes, that is how military defeat works. When you choose military force to go for all or nothing, you risk getting nothing.

And you're chastising others for ignorance? Holy shit you're so willfully stupid on this subject that...well I can't say I'm surprised as you've exhibited this behavior before on other topics, but its still incredibly ridiculous.

 

[Starbuck1975]

And you're chastising others for ignorance? Holy shit you're so willfully stupid on this subject that...well I can't say I'm surprised as you've exhibited this behavior before on other topics, but its still incredibly ridiculous.

You are in no position to make that assessment.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Hardly. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 imposed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine on the people who already lived there, whether they wanted it or not. The switch from Ottoman to British rule prompted some land owners to sell, and the Zionists were there to buy. The area they were allotted in the partition far exceeded what they actually owned but it fulfilled that promise. Palestinians already lived there, but so what? It also relieved the pressure to let Jews immigrate to the UK & the US. The Jewish population of Palestine nearly tripled in the 20 years prior to WW2 and then exploded in the wake of WW2.

http://www.tomhull.com/ocston/projects/ajvp/wp1.php

Palestinians went from being citizens of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years to being dispossessed in 50 years. To create a homeland for the Jews so that the rest of us didn't have any moral qualms about not letting them come here. Oh, and the Palestinians were evil for not wanting to accept something we certainly weren't willing to do ourselves, even though our population was huge in comparison.

Congratulations, you can cut and paste from wikipedia.

The Ottoman Empire ceased to exist. They chose the losing side of WW1. The aftermath of WW1 is what set the stage for the rise of Nazisim in Germany and arbitrary borders in the Middle East that set the stage for numerous subsequent wars, with a touch of Cold War meddling.

Europe didn’t want the Jews, and did a pretty good job of nearly exterminating them. Not just the Nazis, but also the Russians, with even the Allied powers initially serving as enablers. You can’t blame Jews for wanting a homogenous nation to call their own, and for a variety of reasons, their Biblical homeland became the center of gravity.

The British and Arab world is who screwed over the Palestinians, not the Jews.

I don’t blame the Palestinians for not wanting to accept the new world order. But like the Confederacy, they chose civil war and violence. There are consequences.

 

[sandorski]

Congratulations, you can cut and paste from wikipedia.

The Ottoman Empire ceased to exist. They chose the losing side of WW1. The aftermath of WW1 is what set the stage for the rise of Nazisim in Germany and arbitrary borders in the Middle East that set the stage for numerous subsequent wars, with a touch of Cold War meddling.

Europe didn’t want the Jews, and did a pretty good job of nearly exterminating them. Not just the Nazis, but also the Russians, with even the Allied powers initially serving as enablers. You can’t blame Jews for wanting a homogenous nation to call their own, and for a variety of reasons, their Biblical homeland became the center of gravity.

The British and Arab world is who screwed over the Palestinians, not the Jews.

I don’t blame the Palestinians for not wanting to accept the new world order. But like the Confederacy, they chose civil war and violence. There are consequences.

Israel is screwing them over right now.

 

[Jhhnn]

The British and Arab world is who screwed over the Palestinians, not the Jews.

Yeh, the Haganah, the Irgun, the Stern gang & other Jewish paramilitaries had nothing to do with it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeh, the Haganah, the Irgun, the Stern gang & other Jewish paramilitaries had nothing to do with it.

Why did those paramilitaries form I wonder

 

[Starbuck1975]

Israel is screwing them over right now.

Wars have consequences