Israel blocks Reps. Omar and Tlaib...at Trump’s request

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I would counter that a member of the US government failed to differentiate her personal politics from her official duties.

Huh? That makes no sense. If anything it is Trump who was unable to separate his personal politics from his official duties.

Not surprising from Trump, but could you imagine Hamilton and Jefferson in the age of Twitter. It’s not unprecedented, Trump just dials it to 11.

Sure, can you offer me any examples of when Thomas Jefferson advocated for foreign governments to bar entry of US government officials?

Yet Tlaib will probably help him secure a second term.

No, she won’t. Things like this won’t even register as a blip on the radar.

It became fashionable in the 90s to criticize Israel while completely ignoring the chain of events that led to the Palestinian predicament. The UK, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria shoulder far more blame than Israel.

This has nothing to do with fashion, this has to do with describing reality accurately.

If you want to argue that setting up an apartheid state was necessary that’s fine but then make that argument, don’t try to pretend it doesn’t exist.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Huh? That makes no sense. If anything it is Trump who was unable to separate his personal politics from his official duties.
In this case, Tlaib’s anti-Israel sentiments are central to the discussion. She is the one with a personal agenda.

Sure, can you offer me any examples of when Thomas Jefferson advocated for foreign governments to bar entry of US government officials?
I was thinking more the reverse, that Jefferson fell under scrutiny of which master he served given his diplomatic endeavors in France, and Hamilton was not shy to voice his opinions on the matter.

No, she won’t. Things like this won’t even register as a blip on the radar.
There is a reason that Trump wants the Squad front and center.

This has nothing to do with fashion, this has to do with describing reality accurately.

If you want to argue that setting up an apartheid state was necessary that’s fine but then make that argument, don’t try to pretend it doesn’t exist.
It’s not an apartheid state. It’s a military occupied zone and refugee crisis, complicated by failed UN interventions and betrayals by neighboring countries.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
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In this case, Tlaib’s anti-Israel sentiments are central to the discussion. She is the one with a personal agenda.

No, Trump is the one with a personal agenda. Talib's statements against Israel are her own personal business, and Israel is within its rights to deny her entry if they so choose. Because she had been critical of Trump though, Trump decided for his own personal agenda that it would be best to side with a foreign power against members of our own government. He couldn't keep his personal agenda separate from the duties of his job.

I was thinking more the reverse, that Jefferson fell under scrutiny of which master he served given his diplomatic endeavors in France, and Hamilton was not shy to voice his opinions on the matter.

Right, but what does a political opponent accusing someone of siding with a foreign power have to do with someone, you know, actually and publicly doing it?

Clearly they seemed to think it would be very bad if a president did that, otherwise it wouldn't have been an attack.

There is a reason that Trump wants the Squad front and center.

Remember, Trump is not playing 30 dimensional chess here, his responses are dictated almost entirely by his mental illness.

It’s not an apartheid state. It’s a military occupied zone and refugee crisis, complicated by failed UN interventions and betrayals by neighboring countries.

It's a state where someone's ethnic background dictates the rights they have, which is an apartheid state.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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It became fashionable in the 90s to criticize Israel while completely ignoring the chain of events that led to the Palestinian predicament. The UK, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria shoulder far more blame than Israel.

That's extremely dishonest. The Israelis took total control over Palestinian destiny after the 1973 conflict & peace accords with Egypt & Jordan. They have the power to make it how they want & they've been lying about seeking peace thru a two state solution ever since. They're not giving up anything, which is what it would take to create that reality. They just keep taking more in a slow motion lebensraum fashion. Perpetual occupation & oppression is actually what they're doing, make no mistake about it. That's the reality on the ground & you know it full well, as do all Israeli apologists.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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That's extremely dishonest. The Israelis took total control over Palestinian destiny after the 1973 conflict & peace accords with Egypt & Jordan. They have the power to make it how they want & they've been lying about seeking peace thru a two state solution ever since. They're not giving up anything, which is what it would take to create that reality. They just keep taking more in a slow motion lebensraum fashion. Perpetual occupation & oppression is actually what they're doing, make no mistake about it. That's the reality on the ground & you know it full well, as do all Israeli apologists.
Why is the onus on Israel to solve a refugee crisis not of their making? Of course, you completely glossed over the rise of the PLO and Hamas, as do all terrorist apologists.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Why is the onus on Israel to solve a refugee crisis not of their making? Of course, you completely glossed over the rise of the PLO and Hamas, as do all terrorist apologists.

Because when you take territory and exert sovereignty over it you assume the responsibility for the condition of the people there.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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I just don't get this America love thing with Israel.
I mean.... does our American history REALLY reflect such a loyalty and love as so many perceive?
During WWII America was QUITE RELUCTANT to enter into that war, or to go up against Adolf Hitler.
America knew exactly what was going on over in Germany, or at least our leaders knew exactly, yet America simply looked the other way.
Our then American Jewish community warned of what was going on, but few really paid attention or took their warnings seriously.
America preferred to look the other way, that was until America itself was under attack by the Japanese.
THEN.... we gladly took part. Became involved. Entered into that "world-war".

And within American society, America has always treated our Jewish people as less than desirable.
America has not allowed them into neighborhoods, into organizations, into clubs and social groups.
It seems that America loves the Jewish people, but only those who remain over in Israel and not so much those living over here.
That is NOT my personal feelings, but I'm just saying. Just observing...
Observing the fact vs the fiction of American society when it involves Israel and the Jewish people living within America.

Then, look at Donald Trump.
Trump definitely subscribes to the Alt-Right, anti Jewish ideology.
Which is indeed strange given the fact his own son-in-law is Jewish.
I'm guessing that relationship is like the unpopular uncle in the family.
That uncle you put up with but only for the major holidays.
Donald "puts-up" with Jared but only considering his daughter, ivanka. Other than that Donald is full-on Alt-Right loyalist.
And his crowds reflect that.
His crowds reflect both the Jewish dislike, and the Alt-Right loyalty.
I mean.... lets get real here.
Trump supporters can not dislike Muslims and immigrants without also their dislike of the Jewish folks.
It's the connection. The connecting of the dots. The only and logical conclusion.

So really, what is all the hubbub about?
And all the bashing of these congress women of color?
And the freak out over at Fox News from all of this?
America may claim to be pro-Israel, but our history has not supported that claim, so much.
Maybe its time we did some honest "reflecting" on our part and on our past, and less knee-jerk reacting.
Is it so awful for these women to visit Israel?
And do Americans really care one way or the other?
Or really even give a damn one way or the other?
And especially our leader, Donald Trump?
When it comes to Donald Trump, isn't this really just a campaign stunt? Only another Trump con?
Does Donald Trump even care.... really?
Seriously, Trump is no more admiring of American Jewish folks than he is of Muslims serving in congress.
That is, if you really want to get right down to it.
Donald Trump seen an opportunity here. Another of his chances to take a shit on everything surrounding him.
And so.... he went for it.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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Because when you take territory and exert sovereignty over it you assume the responsibility for the condition of the people there.
Yep, and when those people seek liberation through terrorism, you isolate them and contain their ability to do damage.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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And take their land, of course.
Why is the onus on Israel to solve a refugee crisis not of their making? Of course, you completely glossed over the rise of the PLO and Hamas, as do all terrorist apologists.

More dishonesty. The Israelis take more from the Pals on a near daily basis-

https://www.thenation.com/article/israel-occupation-palestine-housing-east-jerusalem/

But they're trying so very hard to create a two state solution, honest. If you believe that, you might be interested in some Arizona oceanfront. They've been lying to us for decades, and they have the hasbara machine to keep us believing, too. They helped us fit ourselves into a very useful guilt trip about the Holocaust & have kept it going ever since. Can't say anything bad about the State of Israel w/o having that thrown in your face & being called an anti-semite before the discussion ends.

What they've been doing to their Palestinian neighbors for several decades really is quite despicable. They barely treat Israeli arabs much better, either.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
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And take their land, of course.

More dishonesty. The Israelis take more from the Pals on a near daily basis-

https://www.thenation.com/article/israel-occupation-palestine-housing-east-jerusalem/

But they're trying so very hard to create a two state solution, honest. If you believe that, you might be interested in some Arizona oceanfront. They've been lying to us for decades, and they have the hasbara machine to keep us believing, too. They helped us fit ourselves into a very useful guilt trip about the Holocaust & have kept it going ever since. Can't say anything bad about the State of Israel w/o having that thrown in your face & being called an anti-semite before the discussion ends.

What they've been doing to their Palestinian neighbors for several decades really is quite despicable. They barely treat Israeli arabs much better, either.
I get it @Jhhnn, you don’t like Israel, irrationally so.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I get it @Jhhnn, you don’t like Israel, irrationally so.


I get it @Jhhnn, you don’t like Israel, irrationally so.

I do have a certain resentment about the way they've lied so successfully to us about their actions & intentions towards the Palestinians. They greatly abuse our sympathies in a grotesque fashion.

Bibi & the Settlers have created a situation on the ground where they'd have to give up a lot to achieve the two state solution they claim to have been seeking for 40 years. And they're not giving up a fucking thing, certainly not while we're backing them. They're taking even more as I type. It's clear that they intend perpetual occupation & ongoing expropriation. That's what you're supporting, make no mistake about it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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Yep, and when those people seek liberation through terrorism, you isolate them and contain their ability to do damage.
Have you considered the potential negative feedback there? And do they even have any options for liberation through peaceful means at this point? Serious question.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Have you considered the potential negative feedback there? And do they even have any options for liberation through peaceful means at this point? Serious question.
I don’t believe they’ve legitimately embraced liberation through peaceful means. The history of the region is a series of failed wars. I view Israel’s neighbors kind of like the Confederacy.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I do have a certain resentment about the way they've lied so successfully to us about their actions & intentions towards the Palestinians. They greatly abuse our sympathies in a grotesque fashion.

Bibi & the Settlers have created a situation on the ground where they'd have to give up a lot to achieve the two state solution they claim to have been seeking for 40 years. And they're not giving up a fucking thing, certainly not while we're backing them. They're taking even more as I type. It's clear that they intend perpetual occupation & ongoing expropriation. That's what you're supporting, make no mistake about it.
Do losers of wars get to set the terms of resettlement? The two state solution is no solution at all.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,133
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Tlaib hates Jews more than she loves her grandmother. She could have gone, but thinks she's somehow sending out a message of protest to Israel by not going. (like they're even going to care) That's some true colors coming out right there. Whatever.

it appears that you are a tumor that is capable of posting on the internet.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
winners don't generally steal territory of the losers, at least not since WWII
Wars are fought for a variety of reasons, securing of natural boundaries, resources or achieving ethnic homogeneity being a few notable examples. The Korean War, Vietnam and the Balkans are all recent examples of national boundaries shifting due to conflict.

Israel has fought off several waves of invasion and aggression since its inception, leading it to pursue a buffer zone defense strategy.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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I don’t believe they’ve legitimately embraced liberation through peaceful means. The history of the region is a series of failed wars. I view Israel’s neighbors kind of like the Confederacy.
You didn't answer my question. Do they even have any options for liberation through peaceful means at this point?