Isn't the 2016 Election Outcome Already Clear?

[s0me0nesmind1]

Hillary being proud of Republicans being her enemy was not a wise statement. This 3rd term Bill Clinton talk is silly. Was it a 3rd Bush term upon his reelection? Would it be a 4th Bush term if Jeb wins?

I agree. Eye-roll worthy statement.

As president your job is to work as a group instead of dividing into enemies. Want another 8 years of congressional bullshit? You just signed your ticket for it if Hillary is elected.

 

[TeeJay1952]

I agree. Eye-roll worthy statement.

As president your job is to work as a group instead of dividing into enemies. Want another 8 years of congressional bullshit? You just signed your ticket for it if Hillary is elected.

So let the other side shout you down, Let them make your decision based on their reaction to a candidate?

Sometime things are what they are and spinning them doesn't change the fact that you want your vote and mine! Drive the obstructionists from public life. Nothing wrong with Republicans or Democrats,. It is the Us vs Them, Win at any cost policies that are screwing things up.

It was a great day in America when Bush left office for Obama.
It will be another one when Obama leaves.
We share responsibility for this country. Wish politicians had nations best interest at heart instead of whatever motives they do have.

 

[werepossum]

Ah Rubio, the Senator who gave a speech the other day saying if a government employee is found not to be doing his job, he should be able to be fired.

Rubio, who has missed 44% of votes this year in the Senate, 25% of which happened BEFORE he decided to run for President...:whiste:

lol +1

Ought to be the same rule in politics as in business: If you aren't doing the job you have, don't ask for a promotion.

 

[werepossum]

I agree. Eye-roll worthy statement.

As president your job is to work as a group instead of dividing into enemies. Want another 8 years of congressional bullshit? You just signed your ticket for it if Hillary is elected.

Some of us find gridlock to be the best that might reasonably happen. No one's life, liberty or property is safe when Congress is in session.

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree. Eye-roll worthy statement.

As president your job is to work as a group instead of dividing into enemies. Want another 8 years of congressional bullshit? You just signed your ticket for it if Hillary is elected.

If Repubs hold Congress, we'll see 8 more years of their bullshit if any Dem is Prez.

She's just being realistic, recognizing they declared her to be the enemy long ago.

 

[TheSlamma]

#TRUTH. Unfortunately.

But I'm voting for Hillary because I'm against the actual Republicans.

And I'd rather have Hillary picking the next 3-4 Supreme Court justices and continuing to assure the ACA will survive.

Unless Bernie can pull off a miracle, it's just us & Hillary against the Republican 1%ers.

Sigh.

ACA to me is another one I don't get why repubs hate so bad, it has made insurance companies more rich than in any time in their history and they still get to deny our claims if they want to. I really think Sanders is the only one who can address what the ACA can't either and what is really wrong with US healthcare either, we have a shortage of medical professionals and the cost of medical help, we are still seeing Japan do an MRI with the same GE machine for under $500 that hospitals here charge $7000+ for.

I agree "Sigh"

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Some of us find gridlock to be the best that might reasonably happen. No one's life, liberty or property is safe when Congress is in session.

Problem is currently grid lock is so in force that its nearly impossible to address basic functions like appoint cabinet members like the AG or pay bills like the debt ceiling. Keep in mind I'm not saying debt should endlessly increase what I am saying once its spent it should be paid for. Have productive budget talks if needed to address spending.
Highway bill is another example we all know funds need to be appropriated get something done instead of getting hung up on small details or at minimum if the small details are the problem start explaining your opinion as why they are unacceptable to a broad audience.

 

[phillyTIM]

ACA to me is another one I don't get why repubs hate so bad, it has made insurance companies more rich than in any time in their history and they still get to deny our claims if they want to.

Yeah I'm convinced that repubs hate ACA only because its a signature Obama 'accomplishment'.

It theoretically has EVERYONE paying at least something for healthcare, rather than those who can't pay end up costing us more who do pay insurance.

Repubs should definitely love ACA. I agree.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/01/historic-re-election-pattern-doesnt-favor-democrats-in-2016/

Odds are you get a Republican POTUS this time. I doubt Hillary can pull enough votes, to overcome the trend.

 

[Indus]

Except the country has shifted due to the Bush Economic Crisis.

Last time we had an economic crisis like this, FDR/ Truman won 5 terms in a row.

And the Republicans aren't exactly doing themselves any favors by alienating minorities.. lets see now Asians are 5% of the electorate, African Americans are 11%, Hispanics are 13% which adds up to 29%. That leaves 71% which are whites so Democrats only need 21% more of the electorate and they generally get more than that.

All this polarization by Trump and everyone else trying to outdo him will fuck the Republicans plans of winning like Todd Akin did in 2012.

But anyways we're a long way off. Personally I don't think the Republicans can win until they stop pandering to racist xenophobes.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Except the country has shifted due to the Bush Economic Crisis.

Last time we had an economic crisis like this, FDR/ Truman won 5 terms in a row.

And the Republicans aren't exactly doing themselves any favors by alienating minorities.. lets see now Asians are 5% of the electorate, African Americans are 11%, Hispanics are 13% which adds up to 29%. That leaves 71% which are whites so Democrats only need 21% more of the electorate and they generally get more than that.

All this polarization by Trump and everyone else trying to outdo him will fuck the Republicans plans of winning like Todd Akin did in 2012.

But anyways we're a long way off. Personally I don't think the Republicans can win until they stop pandering to racist xenophobes.

Those numbers are meaningless unless they make it to the polls and vote. And then you have to overcome gerrymandering and the likability factor of a candidate, or lack there of. Hillary is a bitter pill for D's to swallow, and Sanders is not going to win a general election. I see no way they carry this one. Not that I care much. South Park had it right, every election is a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

 

[flexy]

Hillary is a bitter pill for D's to swallow, and Sanders is not going to win a general election. I see no way they carry this one. Not that I care much. South Park had it right, every election is a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

Sort of torn here myself what to think, or maybe I just don't *want* to face reality

* Hillary nominated: Less D voter turnout, benefits R (likely Trump)
* Bernie nominated, gets better: Because many might not vote for Bernie because "He's a socialist!11!!" --> benefits R as well

D is sorta screwed....

On the other hand, Trump (R in general) IMHO has even less chances to begin with, I can't see them to win *at all* this time...but so or so, for each party I think it would require *extraordinary* circumstances to win:

* Bernie *could* win if there was some extra-ordinary, without precedent voter turnout by the young folks, but here I doubt whether his social media activism etc. makes good for, say, African American/Latino votes or those "who don't like socialism"
* Hillary could win if their/her votes are so massively more as opposed to R so that the sheer numbers the D would have would make good for low voter turnout of "Hillary haters"
* Trump could win if circumstances are favorable, eg. low D voter turnout because of Hillary/Bernie...then it could indeed happen

So or so, it will be VERY interesting

My own "prediction": H wins, despite the "bitter pill to swallow". Based on numbers, there are simply not that many stupid folks out there who would vote for R/Trump this time.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Sort of torn here myself what to think, or maybe I just don't *want* to face reality

* Hillary nominated: Less D voter turnout, benefits R (likely Trump)
* Bernie nominated, gets better: Because many might not vote for Bernie because "He's a socialist!11!!" --> benefits R as well

D is sorta screwed....

On the other hand, Trump (R in general) IMHO has even less chances to begin with, I can't see them to win *at all* this time...but so or so, for each party I think it would require *extraordinary* circumstances to win:

* Bernie *could* win if there was some extra-ordinary, without precedent voter turnout by the young folks, but here I doubt whether his social media activism etc. makes good for, say, African American/Latino votes or those "who don't like socialism"
* Hillary could win if their/her votes are so massively more as opposed to R so that the sheer numbers the D would have would make good for low voter turnout of "Hillary haters"
* Trump could win if circumstances are favorable, eg. low D voter turnout because of Hillary/Bernie...then it could indeed happen

So or so, it will be VERY interesting

My own "prediction": H wins, despite the "bitter pill to swallow". Based on numbers, there are simply not that many stupid folks out there who would vote for R/Trump this time.

Trump gets the nomination? I would be surprised if that happened. Carson maybe? I have no idea. I am an anybody but Bush or Cruz when talking R though. Cruz is the candidate from The Dead Zone


Dems will run a sure loser. Webb is the best they have, but he is not a good showman. I think he would get the RINO vote too. His past and experience is excellent compared to the knobs they have running.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Cruz is the candidate from The Dead Zone

Great book, and the movie wasn't bad, either. For those who don't get the reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EO9y4rGxvk

 

[MrColin]

oops

 

[Attic]

Sort of torn here myself what to think, or maybe I just don't *want* to face reality

* Hillary nominated: Less D voter turnout, benefits R (likely Trump)
* Bernie nominated, gets better: Because many might not vote for Bernie because "He's a socialist!11!!" --> benefits R as well

D is sorta screwed....

On the other hand, Trump (R in general) IMHO has even less chances to begin with, I can't see them to win *at all* this time...but so or so, for each party I think it would require *extraordinary* circumstances to win:

* Bernie *could* win if there was some extra-ordinary, without precedent voter turnout by the young folks, but here I doubt whether his social media activism etc. makes good for, say, African American/Latino votes or those "who don't like socialism"
* Hillary could win if their/her votes are so massively more as opposed to R so that the sheer numbers the D would have would make good for low voter turnout of "Hillary haters"
* Trump could win if circumstances are favorable, eg. low D voter turnout because of Hillary/Bernie...then it could indeed happen

So or so, it will be VERY interesting

My own "prediction": H wins, despite the "bitter pill to swallow". Based on numbers, there are simply not that many stupid folks out there who would vote for R/Trump this time.

From what I gather and hear (apart from staunch partisans), people want someone to shakeup DC. Change the way it operates.

Trump does this. Carson does this. Sanders does this.

Hilary is clearly establishment and will uphold the current corrupt operating status quo of government. Yes, she is a bitter pill to swallow for everyone (I hope), but Republicans are too ostracized for good and bad reasons, and Sanders doesn't have a chance because why would Dems give up a sure thing (Hilary)?.

Hilary is a liar, and she says what she thinks people want to hear and her campaign is controlling to an extent to limit discovery rather than embrace it. Hilary has to be presented in very careful and limited fashion. Her lies and deceptions make her a typical politician, but that is the problem.

Sanders says what he means, so do Trump and Carson.

Beyond that, the truth is sometimes unpleasant... this is why we get the liars and deceivers into office, and it's why Hilary is a shoe in. She is by far the best liar and deceiver of the bunch.

Bottom line, I think the two party system is failing everyone. It softens and sets the citizens up too much and too well for lies and deceptions from their respective party.

The liberal party has been force fed a giant Turd, Hilary, and they are just going to eat it because the ideas from the other Party are so easy to dismiss in our system. Need at least a solid third party, and preferable 5 or more or drop the party stuff altogether and simply focus on ideas and character.

 

[sportage]

I still see hope for the establishment, on both sides.
Especially the republican side.
A candidate like Jeb does not go gentle into that good night.

You will know Jeb has tossed in the towel when Jeb starts summing up the state of events within his own party by saying, "well, anyone would be better than Hillary".
Which means Jeb will probably walk away, tail between his legs, and just stay home on election day.

True, a lot of time still to go, and a lot of vetting still to come.
Iowa is going to be a big distraction because Carson will probably win there.
But after Iowa, when the real people start casting their opinion, things will settle down and Jeb could be that come-back-kid.

When I watch Carson, Im not convinced he really wants this office or all the attention.
Carson simply wanted to make his point, then fall by the wayside.
I think Carson's real fear is what to do next, how did I get here, and how does he quietly bow out?
He just wants to go around selling books. Thats all.

Ever been at a party and you really really wanted to leave, but didn't want anyone to notice you leaving?
This will be Carson's problem.
Ok, they like me, I got their attention, so now everybody look at someone else because I really don't want this gig.

I guess Carson could bow out with some lame excuse, like one would use at a party, "I think I left the stove on", or, "wow, look at the time, its late", or, "I promised my wife I'd be home by nine".

 

[retrospooty]

If it were just about economics and things that matter the reps have a good chance, but it isnt... Because all that todays reps seem to think about is hating gays, science, modern women and latinos. I know that isnt true for "all" reps, but it's the vocal crazy ones that are making the narrative. Demographics have shifted and so have the parties. They used to be Fiscal liberal vs. fiscal conservative, and now both parties are fiscally liberal and "politics as usual" The only real difference is social values a and the reps backwards social values are ruining their chances to ever win a national election and they don't even seem to realize it.

 

[flexy]

What is baffling is that the Reps had EIGHT YEARS to rehaul their party, their messages, their politicians...but in the eight years they did NOTHING.

Instead, their views got even more extreme and their "candidates" even more idiotic. Even their "best" candidate, Trump, is not a representation of the Reps/GOP...he is actually an anti-establishment candidate which could just arise because the GOP is in such a bad state. I really think the GOP, the entire right has entirely lost touch with reality.

 

[retrospooty]

What is baffling is that the Reps had EIGHT YEARS to rehaul their party, their messages, their politicians...but in the eight years they did NOTHING.

They do have it tough, because they really arent one party anymore. They are two - the fiscally conservative, small govt, low tax, business friendly, govt. out of peoples lives sane reps and the "I hate gays, science, modern women and latinos" party and the two are not meshing well because the "party of hate" half is a bunch of nut-jobs that belong on a bad TV show.

 

[BoberFett]

From what I gather and hear (apart from staunch partisans), people want someone to shakeup DC. Change the way it operates.

Trump does this. Carson does this. Sanders does this.

Hilary is clearly establishment and will uphold the current corrupt operating status quo of government. Yes, she is a bitter pill to swallow for everyone (I hope), but Republicans are too ostracized for good and bad reasons, and Sanders doesn't have a chance because why would Dems give up a sure thing (Hilary)?.

Hilary is a liar, and she says what she thinks people want to hear and her campaign is controlling to an extent to limit discovery rather than embrace it. Hilary has to be presented in very careful and limited fashion. Her lies and deceptions make her a typical politician, but that is the problem.

Sanders says what he means, so do Trump and Carson.

Beyond that, the truth is sometimes unpleasant... this is why we get the liars and deceivers into office, and it's why Hilary is a shoe in. She is by far the best liar and deceiver of the bunch.

Bottom line, I think the two party system is failing everyone. It softens and sets the citizens up too much and too well for lies and deceptions from their respective party.

The liberal party has been force fed a giant Turd, Hilary, and they are just going to eat it because the ideas from the other Party are so easy to dismiss in our system. Need at least a solid third party, and preferable 5 or more or drop the party stuff altogether and simply focus on ideas and character.

:thumbsup:

 

[BoberFett]

I still see hope for the establishment, on both sides.
Especially the republican side.
A candidate like Jeb does not go gentle into that good night.

You will know Jeb has tossed in the towel when Jeb starts summing up the state of events within his own party by saying, "well, anyone would be better than Hillary".
Which means Jeb will probably walk away, tail between his legs, and just stay home on election day.

True, a lot of time still to go, and a lot of vetting still to come.
Iowa is going to be a big distraction because Carson will probably win there.
But after Iowa, when the real people start casting their opinion, things will settle down and Jeb could be that come-back-kid.

When I watch Carson, Im not convinced he really wants this office or all the attention.
Carson simply wanted to make his point, then fall by the wayside.
I think Carson's real fear is what to do next, how did I get here, and how does he quietly bow out?
He just wants to go around selling books. Thats all.

Ever been at a party and you really really wanted to leave, but didn't want anyone to notice you leaving?
This will be Carson's problem.
Ok, they like me, I got their attention, so now everybody look at someone else because I really don't want this gig.

I guess Carson could bow out with some lame excuse, like one would use at a party, "I think I left the stove on", or, "wow, look at the time, its late", or, "I promised my wife I'd be home by nine".

Wow. I usually think sportage is nuts, but I think he's pretty much spot on here.

Of course the "anybody would be better than XX" was a favorite line of of the Democrats a couple elections ago, but ya know....

 

[buckshot24]

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/democratic-debate/2859836

Some of you might find this amusing from SNL 1991

 

[Sonikku]

Yeah I'm convinced that repubs hate ACA only because its a signature Obama 'accomplishment'.

It theoretically has EVERYONE paying at least something for healthcare, rather than those who can't pay end up costing us more who do pay insurance.

Repubs should definitely love ACA. I agree.

Well they should. Seeing as how it was originally their idea and all. What Obama should have done was plug a full blown socialism single payer healthcare plan just to make the GoP panic, forcing their hand and making them hold up Romneycare as their own solution. Maybe at least if Obama had done that the House might actually be doing something these days, as opposed to just voting to appeal obamacare for the 30th time or whatever.

 

[sportage]

No one is talking about what happened in Kentucky Tuesday night.
The Republican Matt Bevin winning over the democrat even though polls showed just the opposite in play.
Why Matt Bevin won is the golden key for a Republican landslide for 2016 both locally and nationally.
And that golden key? Christianity and Kim Davis.
Matt Bevin's support of Kim Davis won him this election.
Christianity under attack, presumably, and the Republican Matt Bevin taking advantage of that.

It doesn't matter about Davis personally, it was that image of any Christian sitting in jail for their Christian beliefs.
In Kentucky, that one single image won the republicans their victory,
And democrats nor the media never seen it coming.
It hit them squarily in the balls.

I hate to give republicans advise, but this is their key for winning come 2016 both locally and nationally.
Winning in landslides as never before.
Using that image of Christian persecution to bring every single Republican that associates with the religious right out from under their rock to the polls in mass to vote come election day.
And democrats will never know what hit them.

Doesn't matter if its Hillary or Sanders, they would lose.
And it doesn't matter if its Trump, Jeb, Carson or Rand Paul, they would win. And win huge.
Democrats would never be able to motivate their side to match such an onslot from the far right.

If I were Donald or Jeb, I'd focus on this one issue 100%.
This will make all the difference.

What happened in Kentucky is their clue. Their key to take it all come election day 2016.

PS, keep it our secret.
..