I'd recommend WoW without hesitation.
If the genre isn't for you, so be it, it's not for everyone. I don't understand where a poster like HeroOfPelinor is coming from, his WoW bashing in every thread is really quite baffling. While I'm all for allowing people their opinions, his main argument is pretty weak; that WoW is just like DAoC. Oddly enough, DAoC is all about realm vs. realm PvP at high levels, and half of the WoW servers are non-PvP. He routinely ignores this point when I bring it up, of course. My guess is that he didn't get into beta and has an axe to grind with Blizzard over it.
If the genre isn't for you, so be it, it's not for everyone. I don't understand where a poster like HeroOfPelinor is coming from, his WoW bashing in every thread is really quite baffling. While I'm all for allowing people their opinions, his main argument is pretty weak; that WoW is just like DAoC. Oddly enough, DAoC is all about realm vs. realm PvP at high levels, and half of the WoW servers are non-PvP. He routinely ignores this point when I bring it up, of course. My guess is that he didn't get into beta and has an axe to grind with Blizzard over it.
Totally worth it. I had an issue with paying a monthly fee for the game, but after playing it for the first month, it's totally worth it to me for the amount of enjoyment I get out of it.
How so? The only point I'll concede is tradeskills; though I think the system is cool, and it probably is nice for a majority of players, I made a mint in EQ as a grandmaster smith because it was hard as hell and no one else wanted to do it. All else being equal, I'd prefer a tough system - but I'm not hurting for gold, so I'll live.
Malladine
Diamond Member
- Mar 31, 2003
- 4,618
- 0
- 71
I truly can't be more specfic than to say that both my wife and I feel that way when playing. There are differences of course or we wouldn't still be playing but they are superficial in the end. The fundamental gameplay is the same as in any of the games that have already been compared. And no i'm not talking about general MMO gameplay. It's already been established that there are differing styles of mmo, namely UO style and EQ style. This game is heavily EQ style, offering so little in the way of innovation that it fits snugly into the rehash category.
As far as handholding goes, that's just the current trend in the genre. I'll call it the lowest common denominator trend
Sounds to me like you'd consider any game with a persistent world and character development a rehash; perhaps mmogs just aren't your thing, or you're a bit burned out on them. Iirc from another post you played EQ? The raping of that game by Sony could leave anyone a bit disenchanted, I don't blame you.
Malladine
Diamond Member
- Mar 31, 2003
- 4,618
- 0
- 71
Perhaps i am somewhat burned out. But...I still believe the leveling treadmill/self restricting design of wow and other EQ style mmos is not the way to go and does a poor job of exploring the true potential of the genre. Wrong direction imo. If nobody can come up with a new approach i'd be fine with a rehash of '97-98 UO
Well the one thing wow has done is truly make it so that you rarely need to just go out and kill random enemies just for experience. You can always find a purpose, usually in the form of a quest. I realize it's a baby step, but it adds a lot to my enjoyment. In previous games, quests were kind of a sidebar to just going out and killing things in big groups.
At the opposite end was FFXI, which seemed to have entire zones that existed solely for the purpose of a single quest or mission, making travelling long and hard, or similar. There was an absurd number of zones that were just too impractical to hunt in, but which you had to go to for some of the above reasons. WoW so far seems to have few if any areas like this so far.
At the opposite end was FFXI, which seemed to have entire zones that existed solely for the purpose of a single quest or mission, making travelling long and hard, or similar. There was an absurd number of zones that were just too impractical to hunt in, but which you had to go to for some of the above reasons. WoW so far seems to have few if any areas like this so far.
Ugh.. Final Fantasy XI quests.
The philosophy: Lets encourage teamwork!
The execution:
"Shell out several thousand gil to travel several zones north of here to a desolate frozen wasteland where you'll examine a ??? guarded by a dozen mobs that aggro. Then hoof it back to town, get another chocobo and travel several zones south of here where you'll examine another ??? except that one will be guarded by a level 75 NM. Then return here for a reward."
*Six hours, two dozen shouts in Jeuno, and four deaths later.*
"Ah yes! Thank you for finding my (insignificant generic object)! Here is your reward!"
>You received 600 Gil.
Speaking as someone who was staunchly against shelling out a monthly fee in addition to $50 to purchase the client, I love this game. For years, since having negative experiences with two other MMORPGs, I refused to jump on this bandwagon. Now I can't stop playing WoW. I haven't finished Doom 3, which I promised myself I would do before embarking on Far Cry and HL 2. It has usurped all my gaming time.
So to answer the question from the subject line: Yes. Yes it is.
So to answer the question from the subject line: Yes. Yes it is.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
I think the question is wrong. MMORPG are always worth the money. There's no other game you'll play as much and, therefore, get your money's worth even if you quit before reaching a very high level.
MMORPGs are persistent, so what you've done in them only matters so far as you are still playing. Someday you will quit and it is like somebody just pulled the plug on your character's deeds. That's fine. Heck, SRPGs don't even go so far as the persistence.
So, understanding the inevitability of this ending, you need to ask yourself a different question:
Is WoW worth my time? Would it have been better spent playing other games and other genres. You will be obligated to log on and do grinding and see the same things over and over again. In no time, the "fun" of things will only exist in the perspective of the game and not "fun" in the broader sense. The types of quests you'll do in WoW is a joke compared real quests in games like NWN. So playing an MMO, it's a one night stand....it's a marriage. You need to ask yourself when it's over and you exit the persistent world, if it was worth your time to be married to this game rather than be playing the field or, alternatively, be married to someone else.
As far as why I give two shites about wtf you guys do with your gaming time, I had the privilige of playing UO from '97 until EA destroyed it. Unlike most of you newbies, I know what a great MMORPG is and how it feels to leave a game with only fond, vivid memories of a game where your experience was shaped mostly by other players instead of inane scripted quests and repetitive monster bashing for monster bashing's sake. Since then, however, all we've got are EQ clones because some clown at Verant studied Pavlov and wasn't afriad to use his theories for profitteering. I want a real MMORPG to play again. And so do the hopeful shmucks who post on the Darkfall forums and are willing to patiently wait for years with hardly any dev info because it's the only game in development that isn't an EQ/DAOC/WOW/AO clone. The bottom line is that you guys lower the standards for MMORPG because you support ones like this with your $$.
And, Gurck, pointing at DAoC's RvR like it's an indictment is ridiculous. RvR is probably DAoC's single greatest contribution to MMORPGdom. That fact that DAoC has a viable end game and WoW doesn't is a fault of WoW. The fact that you misinterpret that shows how totally biased you are towards WoW.
MMORPGs are persistent, so what you've done in them only matters so far as you are still playing. Someday you will quit and it is like somebody just pulled the plug on your character's deeds. That's fine. Heck, SRPGs don't even go so far as the persistence.
So, understanding the inevitability of this ending, you need to ask yourself a different question:
Is WoW worth my time? Would it have been better spent playing other games and other genres. You will be obligated to log on and do grinding and see the same things over and over again. In no time, the "fun" of things will only exist in the perspective of the game and not "fun" in the broader sense. The types of quests you'll do in WoW is a joke compared real quests in games like NWN. So playing an MMO, it's a one night stand....it's a marriage. You need to ask yourself when it's over and you exit the persistent world, if it was worth your time to be married to this game rather than be playing the field or, alternatively, be married to someone else.
As far as why I give two shites about wtf you guys do with your gaming time, I had the privilige of playing UO from '97 until EA destroyed it. Unlike most of you newbies, I know what a great MMORPG is and how it feels to leave a game with only fond, vivid memories of a game where your experience was shaped mostly by other players instead of inane scripted quests and repetitive monster bashing for monster bashing's sake. Since then, however, all we've got are EQ clones because some clown at Verant studied Pavlov and wasn't afriad to use his theories for profitteering. I want a real MMORPG to play again. And so do the hopeful shmucks who post on the Darkfall forums and are willing to patiently wait for years with hardly any dev info because it's the only game in development that isn't an EQ/DAOC/WOW/AO clone. The bottom line is that you guys lower the standards for MMORPG because you support ones like this with your $$.
And, Gurck, pointing at DAoC's RvR like it's an indictment is ridiculous. RvR is probably DAoC's single greatest contribution to MMORPGdom. That fact that DAoC has a viable end game and WoW doesn't is a fault of WoW. The fact that you misinterpret that shows how totally biased you are towards WoW.
Do you have any idea what 'troll' means in this context? Here's a hint - it's not the same as 'disagreeing with me'.
I played UO in the late beta and early release. It was by far the biggest squandering of a good idea I've seen in an MMORPG. It was heinously buggy and underperforming. It made DAoC and Asheron's Call 2 look like pristine games.
Your idea of a good MMORPG appears to be one with virtually no writing, progression other than skilling up, or immersion aside from what the player brings into the game. From what I can gather, in the later life of the game, you had to be very serious about the game and be willing to put up with constant ambushes from other players even one foot outside of town. None of the above makes sense in the context of the ultima universe.
I believe Gurck was pointing out that DAoC was fundamentally different from WoW, and therefore your comparison is invalid. DAoC was ultimately focused on RvR, with little attention to quests or non PvP content. WoW at the current time appears to be the opposite. Nice straw man argument, though.
You keep claiming all of these games are clones of EQ. Actually you are off on that too. They are clones of mainstream RPGs in general. Generally in RPGs you have a progression of levels, quests, etc. That might explain why the games are called MMORPGs. So yes, ultimately all MMORPGs resemble wizardry and morrowind. Seems to me you want them to be some mutant offspring of wizardry and The Sims Online.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
You want immersion? Play SRPGs. They have much better plot and story. You want the randomness and drama that comes from inter-personal cooperation and conflict? Play MMORPGs. I mean, geez, you could replace every other player in WoW with bots and you wouldn't tell the difference....they'd just hang out with you and level up.
We were all terrorized by PKs in UO at first.....even the PKs were. You either go where they aren't, learn to recall faster, fight back, or become one. Too bad you didn't stick with it. I used to bring the ore I mined while working on my STR back to this blacksmith who never left Trinsic. He'd smelt it and keep the ingots and make me free armor. He said he was afriad to leave town. Then he disappeared for a few weeks and I ran into him at the blacksmith and he said he'd been out PvPing. I know 60 year old ladies who PvP'd. The magic of UO was that the end game was intermingled with the rest of the game which was basically, preserve your interests and accumulate a bigger and better house and items. That's an objective that doesn't get old....or at least not as soon as say the objective of hitting 60. :roll:
Have you ever even met anybody who knows anybody who plays DAoC? There is PvE content out the wazoo....spades more than WoW. RvR was pitched as the "end game". All MMORPGs need an "end game"......what you do when you've hit the max levels. WoW just doesn't have one and when they finally add one it will be a rip off of DAoC's RvR and you'll all think it's the greatest idea ever.
Here's the difference. In single player RPGs levels are the steps towards finishing the game and that works for them. MMORPGs shouldn't have to rely on such a crutch to compel the player to keep playing.
and who are you newbie? I have never seen you in here... so you can piss off too... get the full sotry before posting nonsence
have you even read any of the threads... Hero is our resident MMO asshat... he gets off on bashing every WoW thread just becasue he wants to.. we all know his standing on the issue yet he issists on TROLLING all WoW threads...
so yes he is a TROLL.... we all know his oppionion he hates WoW yet insists on coming into our threads and bashing us and Bliz.
so in a nutshell YES I know what a troll is...
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
LOL UO sounds like so much fun
oh noble HoP please venture out and get me some ore, i am but a puny blacksmith and afraid to leave town
your problem is that you are elitest, and refuse to give WoW players any credit as MMORPG gamers. You are entitled to your opinions, but to claim that questing with other humans in WoW is akin to playing with bots is ridiculous.
You discount the community fostered by a guild, because you refuse to accept the fact that WoW players are interested in more than just leveling up.
You even pass off the overall fellowship of Horde v. Alliance because there are *some* non-PvP servers.
But how can you begin to think that relationships and camraderie will not form when a group of people, even if initially strangers, need to team up and work together to acheive a common goal? You are an elitist MMORPG snob who thinks WoW players are posers. Who cares? Why are you so threatened. There are hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers, yet you parade around like they are all idiots and don't really have any solid reasoning, other than attacking the players.
You have repeatedly exposed your prejudice and general misinformation about the game. Please STFU and leave the WoW threads for the people who play and are interested in the game.
oh noble HoP please venture out and get me some ore, i am but a puny blacksmith and afraid to leave town
your problem is that you are elitest, and refuse to give WoW players any credit as MMORPG gamers. You are entitled to your opinions, but to claim that questing with other humans in WoW is akin to playing with bots is ridiculous.
You discount the community fostered by a guild, because you refuse to accept the fact that WoW players are interested in more than just leveling up.
You even pass off the overall fellowship of Horde v. Alliance because there are *some* non-PvP servers.
But how can you begin to think that relationships and camraderie will not form when a group of people, even if initially strangers, need to team up and work together to acheive a common goal? You are an elitist MMORPG snob who thinks WoW players are posers. Who cares? Why are you so threatened. There are hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers, yet you parade around like they are all idiots and don't really have any solid reasoning, other than attacking the players.
You have repeatedly exposed your prejudice and general misinformation about the game. Please STFU and leave the WoW threads for the people who play and are interested in the game.
And all I wanted was a yes or a no I guess if a game can inspire a thread like this then its worth my time to a least check out. Now the second problem is being able to find it. Thanks to all the responses I decided to buy it yesterday, however I can't find a copy anywhere. Which seem to be another indicator that its a solid game. So if I can find a copy this week I'll give it a shot.
I guess if a game can inspire a thread like this then its worth my time to a least check out. Now the second problem is being able to find it. Thanks to all the responses I decided to buy it yesterday, however I can't find a copy anywhere. Which seem to be another indicator that its a solid game. So if I can find a copy this week I'll give it a shot.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Actually it's a sign that they have major unresolved server issues and are afraid of allowing more players in.
Seriously, it's not a bad game. It truly is the pinnacle of the EQ-clone genre and would be an amazing experience for an MMORPG newbie.
I apologize for the dissenting opinion and trying to balance out the absurdly over the top praise for this game. I'll leave the WoW threads to circle jerking for now on. Enjoy.
Dude DAOC is a 3 year old product.... with 2 land expansions... and 2 free expansions including a total make over of the combat and RVR system.. of course its going to have more content...
original DAOC was Extremely boring and small.... each realm was very very reptitive and you were forced to level in the same areas...
btw 1 dungeon Darkness Falls does not mean its uber content.. atlantis sucked and still isnt half the size of current WoW launch content.... cant speak of the catacombs becsaue I dont have it...
Again you speak and have no clue what you are talking about.. obvisouly you only played from about 1-15 and saw nothing.. didnt travel to other areas
WoW has 4x the content DOAC or EQ had at launch.... and PVP is very much alive and breathing in WOW and is very fun....
Battleground preview 2 is out and im even more psyched up for that patch now...
By all means HeroOfPellinor post your opinion. I asked the question because I wanted to know if the real world liked or disliked the game. I also know that every game is not for every person. I like RPG's and the only experince I have had with the online RPG thing is a NWN server that had so many problems that it was not even worth it most of the time. But when it was good it was real fun. I was and still am reluctant to drop 15 smackers a month on a video game when there are several I can play for free, but if its really a good game that I will spend several hours a month on, then what the heck I'll try anything once.
I want both. Therefore I play WoW. I like playing games where I can both cooperate with and conflict with other people while still feeling somewhat immersed.
I played DAoC for a few months right after launch. It may now have a lot of PvE content, but at the time the quests were seriously lacking, highly buggy, and made no sense. And there were very few of them. The main PvE content was in the form of going to an area and fighting random monsters. Sometimes you would go into a dungeon, but it was such a clusterF*** in them at that time that it quickly became frustrating. The world was not tiny, but it was certainly small compared to WoW.
By the time I quit, PvE was becoming a serious joke, because people were botting left and right, taking major advantage of imbalances, and everyone seemed focused just on levelling up in order to play more PvP. Like levelling up was a chore. In FFXI, the chore was making money. At least it was marginally better in that respect.
Most of the MMORPGs I have played were played shortly after launch. Maybe they have all changed for the better by now, but somehow I doubt it.
Yes they should. People like to progress. People would prefer to participate in events written by people who write events for a living, and not events "written" by 12 year olds who also play with GI Joe. People like a sense of permanent accomplishment. People like discreet beginnings and ends. I like trying new things, but I still want my previous accomplishments to mean something, and to be able to build upon them.
erikistired
Diamond Member
- Sep 27, 2000
- 9,739
- 0
- 0
my wife prefers me at home on the pc than out at the bar with my single boozer friends, so it works well for me. nice try tho.
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