Originally posted by: DomS
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: GooeyGUI
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
That article is a steaming pile of crap.
It was to point out that lawsuits are being brought to stop this.
the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science Foundation and CERN are being sued in federal court over fears that this experiment may in fact destroy the planet.
THAT - is news to me.
And those lawsuits should be thrown out. They are all based around nonsense - higher energy particles collide within Earth's atmosphere everyday and there has yet to be a miniature black hole form. Heck, even if one did, it would have the mass of the colliding particles - so it would do NOTHING. Additionally, suing the DoE in US court won't stop the LHC from coming online as the court has no jurisdiction over the collider.
what if my pinky finger passed through it...would I feel a prick?
People probably thought the same thing back when the first caveman struck flint and got sparks.Originally posted by: RESmonkey
I searched "LHC" on facebook and found a whole bunch of groups that are "protesting" LHC and don't want it to run. I LOL'ed when I saw that; I'm not surprised stupid people thing like this.
And as I mentioned, there's also a possibility that dragons will pop out of the LHC when it's turned on. Seriously.Originally posted by: OdiN
So....not only do we have to worry about microscopic black holes, but also the possibility of stable strangelets which could apparently cause a chain reaction and transform all matter it comes into contact with, a vaccum bubble being created, or magnetic monopoles. All of which could have the possibility, however remote, of completely destroying the earth, or worse. And their rationale is "Well, cosmic rays don't do it, so we're fine!". This certainly is reassuring. Do they even fully understand cosmic rays? At least they have some supporting data from RHIC to back up part of it, but for other stuff they are relying on theory and assuming that if cosmic rays don't do any of this, we can't do it with the LHC. But can we be absolutely sure? I don't think we can. Scientific advancement doesn't mean much if the entire planet and human race is destroyed. Is any chance that this might happen - however remote - really worth the risk? What, exactly, are they going to learn by these experiments that is worth that risk?
Also - maybe this is the start of causality loop - we actually cause a reaction that transforms the entire universe into this....protomatter was it? Which actually causes the big bang and we start all over again. That would be kinda funny actually. What if humans actually caused the big bang, after the universe was created by a divine being and he is just sitting up there facepalming when we figure out a way to annihilate the entire thing.
Fortunately they're not entirely sure that it is going to destroy the world, or else they'd be there sabotaging it. A lawsuit is something where you want to stop something you sort of don't really like. If the government says they're going to be setting off a bomb on top of your house tomorrow, you don't file a lawsuit, or petition them to remove it. You take action.Originally posted by: manowar821
Here's the best part, the people suing can only be banking on one thing... And that is that the world DOESN'T end, and they get to actually use their ill-gotten money. It's astounding that people are willing to listen to this kind of case without laughing and kicking them in the face.
Originally posted by: Jeff7
People probably thought the same thing back when the first caveman struck flint and got sparks.Originally posted by: RESmonkey
I searched "LHC" on facebook and found a whole bunch of groups that are "protesting" LHC and don't want it to run. I LOL'ed when I saw that; I'm not surprised stupid people thing like this.
People of any era will find creative new ways to be ignorant and stupid.
And as I mentioned, there's also a possibility that dragons will pop out of the LHC when it's turned on. Seriously.Originally posted by: OdiN
So....not only do we have to worry about microscopic black holes, but also the possibility of stable strangelets which could apparently cause a chain reaction and transform all matter it comes into contact with, a vaccum bubble being created, or magnetic monopoles. All of which could have the possibility, however remote, of completely destroying the earth, or worse. And their rationale is "Well, cosmic rays don't do it, so we're fine!". This certainly is reassuring. Do they even fully understand cosmic rays? At least they have some supporting data from RHIC to back up part of it, but for other stuff they are relying on theory and assuming that if cosmic rays don't do any of this, we can't do it with the LHC. But can we be absolutely sure? I don't think we can. Scientific advancement doesn't mean much if the entire planet and human race is destroyed. Is any chance that this might happen - however remote - really worth the risk? What, exactly, are they going to learn by these experiments that is worth that risk?
Also - maybe this is the start of causality loop - we actually cause a reaction that transforms the entire universe into this....protomatter was it? Which actually causes the big bang and we start all over again. That would be kinda funny actually. What if humans actually caused the big bang, after the universe was created by a divine being and he is just sitting up there facepalming when we figure out a way to annihilate the entire thing.
It's all about probability.
No, black holes aren't going to be created which will destroy the world.
Stragelets won't destroy the Universe.
Protomatter won't destroy the Universe.
But a dragon just might pop out of your air conditioner.
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
But there is still the remote possibility. I dunno, it just seems we keep pushing farther into things and meddling perhaps more than we should at this stage of limited understanding. Wouldn't the money and mind power be better put to use solving actual current problems that the world is facing? I'm not sure how this research will benefit anyone right now.
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
But there is still the remote possibility. I dunno, it just seems we keep pushing farther into things and meddling perhaps more than we should at this stage of limited understanding. Wouldn't the money and mind power be better put to use solving actual current problems that the world is facing? I'm not sure how this research will benefit anyone right now.
BULLSH*T! The only way we learn is by "pushing farther into things". There is NOT a remote possibility of death. Even if there were, if humanity ceases to be curious, we might as well be dead anyway.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4109
Dammit! I thought this was the government's solution to ending the subprime mortgage crisis - destroy all real estate everywhere on Earth, thus boosting prices for land elsewhere in the solar system.Originally posted by: Nightfall
Personally, this isn't going to happen. The world will go on. You will pay your bills.![]()
There are other things you should be complaining about, instead of ditching legitimate research projects like this. In the US, spending on entertainment is HUGE. Spending on tobacco and alcohol is huge - far more than the government's spending on science. The military - an enormous expense, dedicated to the cause of being able to destroy things.Originally posted by: OdiN
I'm not saying don't do the research, or to cease being curious - I'm just saying that perhaps now is not the best time, with other issues that could use tackling, etc.
^^ See my post before So's.What I haven't read is what benefits there might be, or what exactly they are hoping might come of these experiments? I obviously have a limited understanding of the entire project, and I'm certainly no physicist. I am just speculating that perhaps our focus is in the wrong direction at this point in time.
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
But there is still the remote possibility. I dunno, it just seems we keep pushing farther into things and meddling perhaps more than we should at this stage of limited understanding. Wouldn't the money and mind power be better put to use solving actual current problems that the world is facing? I'm not sure how this research will benefit anyone right now.
BULLSH*T! The only way we learn is by "pushing farther into things". There is NOT a remote possibility of death. Even if there were, if humanity ceases to be curious, we might as well be dead anyway.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4109
I'm not suggesting that it will happen. But according to what I have read, there IS a possibility, and though infinitesimally small it does exist.
I'm not saying don't do the research, or to cease being curious - I'm just saying that perhaps now is not the best time, with other issues that could use tackling, etc.
What I haven't read is what benefits there might be, or what exactly they are hoping might come of these experiments? I obviously have a limited understanding of the entire project, and I'm certainly no physicist. I am just speculating that perhaps our focus is in the wrong direction at this point in time.
Originally posted by: GooeyGUI
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Ughhh
First of all, the link goes to something called "endofworld". Then, everything in the article, starting with what's bolded is nothing more than irresponsible fear mongering by either an asshole who wants attention or an f'ing idiot who doesn't have a clue.
As for the attention seeking kooks who are bringing forth the lawsuit - I'm guessing they did it in the U.S. and not some other country where they have certain tort reforms - loser pays winners costs. I'd rather we find some country with horrible human rights violations for them to file suit in instead - losing would mean a bullet to the back of the head & organ donations. At least some good would come from their idiotic lawsuit. To think that "doomsday" scenarios haven't been exhaustively thought out by CERN & responsible scientists, and to think that instead, a decision should be made in U.S. court where some of our judges have many times proven themselves to been very lacking in technical knowledge even of computers - is ridiculous.
The link goes to virginmedia which should have given you a clue that this was not an in depth article on LHC.
I will give you credit for recognizing the actual reason this was posted, so I put your answer in bold. I will fail you that you ass/u/me I was trying to create panic and that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I will leave some doubt as to your actually finding out what this post is about because the thread contained a discussion considering lawsuits already.
However, other more dangerous particles will also be produced for which searches are planned, such as black holes, and never seen before particles of matter, and even now, the architects of what is being termed a ?Doomsday? machine, the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science Foundation and CERN are being sued in federal court over fears that this experiment may in fact destroy the planet.
The underlined (previously in bold) single SENTENCE cannot be disassembled and have the same meaning.
Ever run a nuclear Rx? I have! Fail that you say, "I don't have a clue" when I have taken all the physics (with calculus) that goes with my EE. I don't want to leave out I used to work at LLNL too, so I won't.
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: udneekgnim
from what I've read, any micro black hole that might be created will disappear practically instantaneously
But of course if you get one that doesn't disappear you're pretty much screwed.
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: DomS
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: GooeyGUI
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
That article is a steaming pile of crap.
It was to point out that lawsuits are being brought to stop this.
the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science Foundation and CERN are being sued in federal court over fears that this experiment may in fact destroy the planet.
THAT - is news to me.
And those lawsuits should be thrown out. They are all based around nonsense - higher energy particles collide within Earth's atmosphere everyday and there has yet to be a miniature black hole form. Heck, even if one did, it would have the mass of the colliding particles - so it would do NOTHING. Additionally, suing the DoE in US court won't stop the LHC from coming online as the court has no jurisdiction over the collider.
what if my pinky finger passed through it...would I feel a prick?
Here's the best part, the people suing can only be banking on one thing... And that is that the world DOESN'T end, and they get to actually use their ill-gotten money. It's astounding that people are willing to listen to this kind of case without laughing and kicking them in the face.
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: udneekgnim
from what I've read, any micro black hole that might be created will disappear practically instantaneously
But of course if you get one that doesn't disappear you're pretty much screwed.
not necessarily, has anyone ever considered that the world might be consumed "practically instantaneously"?
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
But there is still the remote possibility. I dunno, it just seems we keep pushing farther into things and meddling perhaps more than we should at this stage of limited understanding. Wouldn't the money and mind power be better put to use solving actual current problems that the world is facing? I'm not sure how this research will benefit anyone right now.
BULLSH*T! The only way we learn is by "pushing farther into things". There is NOT a remote possibility of death. Even if there were, if humanity ceases to be curious, we might as well be dead anyway.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4109
I'm not suggesting that it will happen. But according to what I have read, there IS a possibility, and though infinitesimally small it does exist.
I'm not saying don't do the research, or to cease being curious - I'm just saying that perhaps now is not the best time, with other issues that could use tackling, etc.
What I haven't read is what benefits there might be, or what exactly they are hoping might come of these experiments? I obviously have a limited understanding of the entire project, and I'm certainly no physicist. I am just speculating that perhaps our focus is in the wrong direction at this point in time.
Read the article. There is no chance of it happening. And if there were, we'd still be fools to stop basic physics research over an infinitesimal chance.
Alright, let's say the black hole doesn't evaporate, in the inexplicably unlikely chance that one is even created. (Now you've got two amazingly unlikely events happening one after another. Something already incredibly improbable just got even less likely.)Originally posted by: OdiN
What about the people saying micro black holes won't evaporate - that the Hawking radiation theory isn't correct, and that they won't just go away - that they may be caught in the gravity of earth because the speed will be so slow compared to cosmic rays, etc.
There's so much information out there - who are you to believe?
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Originally posted by: udneekgnim
from what I've read, any micro black hole that might be created will disappear practically instantaneously
But of course if you get one that doesn't disappear you're pretty much screwed.
not necessarily, has anyone ever considered that the world might be consumed "practically instantaneously"?
Here's a hint: YES. Do you seriously think physicists are less intelligent than your typical conspiracy nut internet troglodyte? These people who are fear mongering have NO CLUE what they're talking about.
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
But there is still the remote possibility. I dunno, it just seems we keep pushing farther into things and meddling perhaps more than we should at this stage of limited understanding. Wouldn't the money and mind power be better put to use solving actual current problems that the world is facing? I'm not sure how this research will benefit anyone right now.
BULLSH*T! The only way we learn is by "pushing farther into things". There is NOT a remote possibility of death. Even if there were, if humanity ceases to be curious, we might as well be dead anyway.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4109
I'm not suggesting that it will happen. But according to what I have read, there IS a possibility, and though infinitesimally small it does exist.
I'm not saying don't do the research, or to cease being curious - I'm just saying that perhaps now is not the best time, with other issues that could use tackling, etc.
What I haven't read is what benefits there might be, or what exactly they are hoping might come of these experiments? I obviously have a limited understanding of the entire project, and I'm certainly no physicist. I am just speculating that perhaps our focus is in the wrong direction at this point in time.
Read the article. There is no chance of it happening. And if there were, we'd still be fools to stop basic physics research over an infinitesimal chance.
What about the people saying micro black holes won't evaporate - that the Hawking radiation theory isn't correct, and that they won't just go away - that they may be caught in the gravity of earth because the speed will be so slow compared to cosmic rays, etc.
There's so much information out there - who are you to believe?
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Alright, let's say the black hole doesn't evaporate, in the inexplicably unlikely chance that one is even created. (Now you've got two amazingly unlikely events happening one after another. Something already incredibly improbable just got even less likely.)Originally posted by: OdiN
What about the people saying micro black holes won't evaporate - that the Hawking radiation theory isn't correct, and that they won't just go away - that they may be caught in the gravity of earth because the speed will be so slow compared to cosmic rays, etc.
There's so much information out there - who are you to believe?
Based on what DrPizza said, the mass might be a fair bit higher than that of just a few protons. Maybe a few thousand protons. Again, you're talking about something that's on the order of 10^-24 kg, suspended inside a vacuum, within a magnetic containment field. What's it going to do? It can't accumulate mass, since there won't be anything else in there for it to absorb. It can't escape, since it's magnetically contained.
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Alright, let's say the black hole doesn't evaporate, in the inexplicably unlikely chance that one is even created. (Now you've got two amazingly unlikely events happening one after another. Something already incredibly improbable just got even less likely.)Originally posted by: OdiN
What about the people saying micro black holes won't evaporate - that the Hawking radiation theory isn't correct, and that they won't just go away - that they may be caught in the gravity of earth because the speed will be so slow compared to cosmic rays, etc.
There's so much information out there - who are you to believe?
Based on what DrPizza said, the mass might be a fair bit higher than that of just a few protons. Maybe a few thousand protons. Again, you're talking about something that's on the order of 10^-24 kg, suspended inside a vacuum, within a magnetic containment field. What's it going to do? It can't accumulate mass, since there won't be anything else in there for it to absorb. It can't escape, since it's magnetically contained.
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand quantum physics, anything is possible. Every last one of Earth's protons could spontaneously decay tomorrow. Protons are estimated to have a half-life of somewhere around 10^36 or 10^38 years. But they could decay at any time. It's just not very likely. That's why you don't see a major effort to get humanity off of Earth before all its protons decay. It's simply not a practical possibility.Originally posted by: OdiN
You cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing will be created which has the capacity to destroy earth. There is the possibility, however remote, but it still exists. Or at least that's what I get from their studies.
Same with dangerous particles in the LHC. The risk of anything bad happening is just so incredibly improbable that it's effectively not a risk at all, except to people like those who wrote the page linked to in the OP.
But there is still the remote possibility. I dunno, it just seems we keep pushing farther into things and meddling perhaps more than we should at this stage of limited understanding. Wouldn't the money and mind power be better put to use solving actual current problems that the world is facing? I'm not sure how this research will benefit anyone right now.
BULLSH*T! The only way we learn is by "pushing farther into things". There is NOT a remote possibility of death. Even if there were, if humanity ceases to be curious, we might as well be dead anyway.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4109
I'm not suggesting that it will happen. But according to what I have read, there IS a possibility, and though infinitesimally small it does exist.
I'm not saying don't do the research, or to cease being curious - I'm just saying that perhaps now is not the best time, with other issues that could use tackling, etc.
What I haven't read is what benefits there might be, or what exactly they are hoping might come of these experiments? I obviously have a limited understanding of the entire project, and I'm certainly no physicist. I am just speculating that perhaps our focus is in the wrong direction at this point in time.
Read the article. There is no chance of it happening. And if there were, we'd still be fools to stop basic physics research over an infinitesimal chance.
What about the people saying micro black holes won't evaporate - that the Hawking radiation theory isn't correct, and that they won't just go away - that they may be caught in the gravity of earth because the speed will be so slow compared to cosmic rays, etc.
There's so much information out there - who are you to believe?
The competent scientists, the ones who know what they're talking about...
