Is the world going to end this Saturday?

[Nitemare]

Ohh well it's Geneva...no big loss

 

[DrPizza]

Ughhh
First of all, the link goes to something called "endofworld". Then, everything in the article, starting with what's bolded is nothing more than irresponsible fear mongering by either an asshole who wants attention or an f'ing idiot who doesn't have a clue. I don't know of a single respectable scientist who has any fear whatsoever of the large hadron collider being turned on. Sure, there are a few kooks out there who majored in general science at some 3rd rate college & graduated with a C average that the ignorant public latches onto (especially reporters) and blows the risk completely out of proportion. As (I think it was Jeff7) said above, the collider is just as likely to spit out dragons.

(that brings up a picky 2nd point: the mass of the black hole isn't necessarily the mass of two protons; does a dragon have the mass of two protons? You're forgetting about E=mc², but I digress.)

For anyone who still has even an inkling of doubt about how safe the collider is, please read these articles:
link1
link2
link3
link4
link5

We analyze macroscopic effects of TeV-scale black holes, such as could possibly be produced at the LHC, in what is regarded as an extremely hypothetical scenario in which they are stable and, if trapped inside Earth, begin to accrete matter. We examine a wide variety of TeV-scale gravity scenarios, basing the resulting accretion models on first-principles, basic, and well-tested physical laws. These scenarios fall into two classes, depending on whether accretion could have any macroscopic effect on the Earth at times shorter than the Sun's natural lifetime. We argue that cases with such effect at shorter times than the solar lifetime are ruled out, since in these scenarios black holes produced by cosmic rays impinging on much denser white dwarfs and neutron stars would then catalyze their decay on timescales incompatible with their known lifetimes. We also comment on relevant lifetimes for astronomical objects that capture primordial black holes. In short, this study finds no basis for concerns that TeV-scale black holes from the LHC could pose a risk to Earth on time scales shorter than the Earth's natural lifetime. Indeed, conservative arguments based on detailed calculations and the best-available scientific knowledge, including solid astronomical data, conclude, from multiple perspectives, that there is no risk of any significance whatsoever from such black holes.

As for the attention seeking kooks who are bringing forth the lawsuit - I'm guessing they did it in the U.S. and not some other country where they have certain tort reforms - loser pays winners costs. I'd rather we find some country with horrible human rights violations for them to file suit in instead - losing would mean a bullet to the back of the head & organ donations. At least some good would come from their idiotic lawsuit. To think that "doomsday" scenarios haven't been exhaustively thought out by CERN & responsible scientists, and to think that instead, a decision should be made in U.S. court where some of our judges have many times proven themselves to been very lacking in technical knowledge even of computers - is ridiculous.

edit: back to my digression; at low masses, mass is often discussed in terms of energy. If you want the mass of a micro black hole, see quote above; convert TeV to kg; you'll see that the masses of hypothetical black holes more than 1000 times the mass of a proton. (1 teraelectron volt = 1.60 x 10^-7 joules = (using E=mc²) = 1.78x10^-24 kg; rest mass of a proton is 1.67*10^-27 kg

 

[ajf3]

I'm no physicist, but my understanding is that some of the experiments they're planning are to prove the THEORY of Hawking radiation... which is what they say will prevent the micro black hole from growing, right?

...so the risk is that if Hawking radiation isn't proven by the experiments then the micro black holes wouldn't have anything to stop them from growing. Isn't that kinda like validating an antidote to a poison by taking the poison yourself?

The other main issue is the strangelet thing... they're theoretical particles that are expected to be positive... if they do exist, or can be created, and end up negative that could be a problem... like an ice-9 problem.

Some would say it's not the odds, it's the stakes, but I'm a gambler...

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: ajf3
I'm no physicist, but my understanding is that some of the experiments they're planning are to prove the THEORY of Hawking radiation... which is what they say will prevent the micro black hole from growing, right?

...so the risk is that if Hawking radiation isn't proven by the experiments then the micro black holes wouldn't have anything to stop them from growing. Isn't that kinda like validating an antidote to a poison by taking the poison yourself?

The other main issue is the strangelet thing... they're theoretical particles that are expected to be positive... if they do exist, or can be created, and end up negative that could be a problem... like an ice-9 problem.

Some would say it's not the odds, it's the stakes, but I'm a gambler...

You don't understand what a theory is if you are using it like it is used in the American vernacular.

Theories are backed by substantial bodies of scientific evidence, and while they can be proven wrong, it is generally quite the established hypothesis that becomes a theory.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

However, other more dangerous particles will also be produced for which searches are planned, such as black holes, and never seen before particles of matter, and even now, the architects of what is being termed a ?Doomsday? machine... blah blah blah

When did a black hole become a particle? 😕

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Well I will make sure to get home from work Friday night, and just have sex with my gf all night long into Saturday. You know just in case. Thanks for the heads up OP.

In related news "Men in long term relationships are expecting to get their yearly sex Friday night"

 

[Throckmorton]

Even if blackholes were created, and didn't disappear, what's the big deal? They would have to be really tiny blackholes, and the only dangerous part of a black hole is inside the event horizon, which would be really small

 

[ajf3]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Even if blackholes were created, and didn't disappear, what's the big deal? They would have to be really tiny blackholes, and the only dangerous part of a black hole is inside the event horizon, which would be really small

It's just a guess as to how quickly a micro hole may grow - if it does. If the guess is wrong, etc...

One of the concerns is what if the micro hole doesn't poof away and instead falls to the center of the earth due to gravity? If it settles there the massive pressures may force matter into the hole more quickly than it would naturally collect it - kinda like jumpstarting the hole.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: ajf3

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Even if blackholes were created, and didn't disappear, what's the big deal? They would have to be really tiny blackholes, and the only dangerous part of a black hole is inside the event horizon, which would be really small

It's just a guess as to how quickly a micro hole may grow - if it does. If the guess is wrong, etc...

One of the concerns is what if the micro hole doesn't poof away and instead falls to the center of the earth due to gravity? If it settles there the massive pressures may force matter into the hole more quickly than it would naturally collect it - kinda like jumpstarting the hole.

"Yes, yes and what if the core is made of cheese?"

We can talk about "what if" scenarios all you want, but unfortunately 90% of them are not supported by science and math.

 

[RESmonkey]

I searched "LHC" on facebook and found a whole bunch of groups that are "protesting" LHC and don't want it to run. I LOL'ed when I saw that; I'm not surprised stupid people thing like this.

 

[Anubis]

i play too much WoW

Every time i see LCH i think Light's Hope Chapel

 

[OdiN]

So....not only do we have to worry about microscopic black holes, but also the possibility of stable strangelets which could apparently cause a chain reaction and transform all matter it comes into contact with, a vaccum bubble being created, or magnetic monopoles. All of which could have the possibility, however remote, of completely destroying the earth, or worse. And their rationale is "Well, cosmic rays don't do it, so we're fine!". This certainly is reassuring. Do they even fully understand cosmic rays? At least they have some supporting data from RHIC to back up part of it, but for other stuff they are relying on theory and assuming that if cosmic rays don't do any of this, we can't do it with the LHC. But can we be absolutely sure? I don't think we can. Scientific advancement doesn't mean much if the entire planet and human race is destroyed. Is any chance that this might happen - however remote - really worth the risk? What, exactly, are they going to learn by these experiments that is worth that risk?

Also - maybe this is the start of causality loop - we actually cause a reaction that transforms the entire universe into this....protomatter was it? Which actually causes the big bang and we start all over again. That would be kinda funny actually. What if humans actually caused the big bang, after the universe was created by a divine being and he is just sitting up there facepalming when we figure out a way to annihilate the entire thing.

 

[GooeyGUI]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Ughhh
First of all, the link goes to something called "endofworld". Then, everything in the article, starting with what's bolded is nothing more than irresponsible fear mongering by either an asshole who wants attention or an f'ing idiot who doesn't have a clue.

As for the attention seeking kooks who are bringing forth the lawsuit - I'm guessing they did it in the U.S. and not some other country where they have certain tort reforms - loser pays winners costs. I'd rather we find some country with horrible human rights violations for them to file suit in instead - losing would mean a bullet to the back of the head & organ donations. At least some good would come from their idiotic lawsuit. To think that "doomsday" scenarios haven't been exhaustively thought out by CERN & responsible scientists, and to think that instead, a decision should be made in U.S. court where some of our judges have many times proven themselves to been very lacking in technical knowledge even of computers - is ridiculous.

The link goes to virginmedia which should have given you a clue that this was not an in depth article on LHC.

I will give you credit for recognizing the actual reason this was posted, so I put your answer in bold. I will fail you that you ass/u/me I was trying to create panic and that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I will leave some doubt as to your actually finding out what this post is about because the thread contained a discussion considering lawsuits already.

However, other more dangerous particles will also be produced for which searches are planned, such as black holes, and never seen before particles of matter, and even now, the architects of what is being termed a ?Doomsday? machine, the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science Foundation and CERN are being sued in federal court over fears that this experiment may in fact destroy the planet.

The underlined (previously in bold) single SENTENCE cannot be disassembled and have the same meaning.

Ever run a nuclear Rx? I have! Fail that you say, "I don't have a clue" when I have taken all the physics (with calculus) that goes with my EE. I don't want to leave out I used to work at LLNL too, so I won't.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: udneekgnim
from what I've read, any micro black hole that might be created will disappear practically instantaneously

But of course if you get one that doesn't disappear you're pretty much screwed.

Let's say they smash two protons together and get a black hole. That black hole will have the mass of two protons. Nearby protons wouldn't notice much of a change.


The example I've seen used is this:
The chance of a black hole being created is about the same as winning the lottery every day for three weeks.
But then, it's also possible that dragons will pop out of the LHC when it's powered on - possible from a quantum physics standpoint. I think from that view, anything is possible, such as every proton in Earth decaying at the same time, and it's all about probability. Some things are just really improbable.

The dragon thing would be kinda cool, ala stargate or something.

Yes, but then we'd have to put up with photoshopped images of the collider with the the text, "Here there be dragons!!!11!!eleventy" or some such nonsense. 😛

ZV

 

[polarmystery]

:music:Now this is what it's like when worlds....COLLIDE!!!!!:music:

 

[Auric]

World to end on Caturday? I can haz doomsday?

 

[manowar821]

No, and it's a stupid question.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: Deeko
When scanning over topic titles, I thought the summary said "Large Hardon Collision".

I was concerned.

Text



My prediction: they will flip the switch and nothing will happen.

I agree, this is the most complicated thing ever constructed by humans. Do you really think it will work right the first time?

I believe the only reason it is not up and running now, is because they had to redesign some of the magnet mounts. When they did a brief magnet test a while back, the magnets were so strong they broke free of the mounts. Just wait until they turn it up to 11 and really put the pedal to the metal to test it out. Then if it shorts out or causes another redesign and it's delayed until 2012, I might get a little worried.

I think what they are also covertly studying besides the obvious particle physics is atomic level time travel or bending the space time continuum. Think about the theory the observer effects the observed. A black hole is a warp in space time due to intense magnetism amongst other things. Perhaps they may want to try transporting molecules into the future or the past using magnetism and simulating a warp in time and space, using an electronic black hole. If they were going to try this, you can bet that would not be publicized because look at the negative speculation this possible scenario has already caused?

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Don't tell John Wiley Price. He will scream racism and demand it create white holes.







Without really knowing what either are....

LOL!

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: TestedAcorn
Every time i see that all i can think is Hardon collider.

someone replied in another thread 'hardon collides with black hoes?'

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: Deeko
When scanning over topic titles, I thought the summary said "Large Hardon Collision".

I was concerned.

Text



My prediction: they will flip the switch and nothing will happen.

I agree, this is the most complicated thing ever constructed by humans. Do you really think it will work right the first time?

I believe the only reason it is not up and running now, is because they had to redesign some of the magnet mounts. When they did a brief magnet test a while back, the magnets were so strong they broke free of the mounts. Just wait until they turn it up to 11 and really put the pedal to the metal to test it out. Then if it shorts out or causes another redesign and it's delayed until 2012, I might get a little worried.

I think what they are also covertly studying besides the obvious particle physics is atomic level time travel or bending the space time continuum. Think about the theory the observer effects the observed. A black hole is a warp in space time due to intense magnetism amongst other things. Perhaps they may want to try transporting molecules into the future or the past using magnetism and simulating a warp in time and space, using an electronic black hole. If they were going to try this, you can bet that would not be publicized because look at the negative speculation this possible scenario has already caused?

Do you really believe the LHC will enable time travel experiments? Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Auric
World to end on Caturday? I can haz doomsday?

hahahahaha

 

[Oceandevi]

I heard that it was built to transport satan to our world. That or to punch a hole in the van allen radio belt so we can get free galaxy cable. Or something.

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: GooeyGUI

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
That article is a steaming pile of crap.

It was to point out that lawsuits are being brought to stop this.

the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science Foundation and CERN are being sued in federal court over fears that this experiment may in fact destroy the planet.

THAT - is news to me.

And those lawsuits should be thrown out. They are all based around nonsense - higher energy particles collide within Earth's atmosphere everyday and there has yet to be a miniature black hole form. Heck, even if one did, it would have the mass of the colliding particles - so it would do NOTHING. Additionally, suing the DoE in US court won't stop the LHC from coming online as the court has no jurisdiction over the collider.

what if my pinky finger passed through it...would I feel a prick?

 

[archiloco]

so if a supercollider's black hole destroys the earth does it make a sound?