Is the US more racist now than int he 1960's?

[zinfamous]

WARNING: DEVILS ADVOCATE INCOMING!

Free speech does NOT exist to protect popular ideas.
It's a double-edged sword no doubt.

(Point being total douche or not he has the right to say it)

yes of course. so he says it.

then how is it defended? Or do we get to call out the bullshit and remind people that the bullshit is being said? again and again and again?

You already know this, but the same protection of speech does not protect such ghouls from the consequences of their speech. That is the part they don't like, and what they are crying about when they claim their rights are being violated. These are very, very stupid people. Racism and stupidity pretty much always tracks.

 

[cytg111]

?Question?


Free speech == Anonymous free speech
?​

Cause I am thinking that since its inception, free speech, the nature of communication has evolved.

Maybe free speech is something you enjoy when you put up your verified identity for all to see.

 

[Captante]

then how is it defended? Or do we get to call out the bullshit and remind people that the bullshit is being said? again and again and again?

Either that or let it go ... and you already know I'm not letting it go if I see it just like you won't.

That's the tough thing about overcoming propaganda especially with the media today... it can be overwhelming.

I am thinking that since its inception, free speech, the nature of communication has evolved.

Fair point.... wish I had an easy answer!

(see above)

 

[Moonbeam]

what kind of defense do you imagine for an elected public official just "fishing about" with this idea in a public forum, even if it isn't indicative of a wider movement beneath him?

what is the argument for allowing such a person to simply entertain the idea, wondering if it will stick?

Actually I hadn't intended to make any argument for or against speech. I just wanted to point out that I do not feel comfortable making broad generalizations into assumptions that can trigger my thinking. I feel that your antipathy for the right, and the consistent ability of those on the right to confirm those assumptions can create a mental trap. Always and everything anybody perceived to be on the right says gets reflexively attacked with venom. I felt my fellow liberals here were making too much of the fact that because some crack pot on the right made some absurd comment, that sentiment would of necessity be wide spread on the right. I think that's falling into a habituated act of being triggered irrationally. That was the only point I wanted to make.

 

[HomerJS]

Actually I hadn't intended to make any argument for or against speech. I just wanted to point out that I do not feel comfortable making broad generalizations into assumptions that can trigger my thinking. I feel that your antipathy for the right, and the consistent ability of those on the right to confirm those assumptions can create a mental trap. Always and everything anybody perceived to be on the right says gets reflexively attacked with venom. I felt my fellow liberals here were making too much of the fact that because some crack pot on the right made some absurd comment, that sentiment would of necessity be wide spread on the right. I think that's falling into a habituated act of being triggered irrationally. That was the only point I wanted to make.

Silence on the right indicates what they are willing to tolerate. If an R comes out in favor of pro-choice the chorus of disapproval will be loud and wide. Let that same R openly opine on bringing back the laws forbidding interracial marriage and there is silence.

They won't openly admit to being racist but they are sure as hell willing to tolerate it with silence.

 

[A///]

I'd say people make veiled comments nowadays that are up to interpretation.

 

[Captante]

Actually I hadn't intended to make any argument for or against speech. I just wanted to point out that I do not feel comfortable making broad generalizations into assumptions that can trigger my thinking. I feel that your antipathy for the right, and the consistent ability of those on the right to confirm those assumptions can create a mental trap. Always and everything anybody perceived to be on the right says gets reflexively attacked with venom. I felt my fellow liberals here were making too much of the fact that because some crack pot on the right made some absurd comment, that sentiment would of necessity be wide spread on the right. I think that's falling into a habituated act of being triggered irrationally. That was the only point I wanted to make.

Truth is that this forum is full of relatively educated folks and that demographic skews heavily Democrat with a fairly even split between moderate and liberal viewpoints.

Unfortunately that means posting here is to a large degree "preaching to the choir" most of the time.... most "conservatives" in this forum (with a few notable exceptions) are just paid trolls/schill's and their minds will not be changed.

Incidentally I'M a "moderate" Democrat myself fwiw .... Joe Manchin is NOT a moderate Democrat he's a traitor to his party and closer to being GOP.

 

[HomerJS]

?Question?


Free speech == Anonymous free speech
?​

Cause I am thinking that since its inception, free speech, the nature of communication has evolved.

Maybe free speech is something you enjoy when you put up your verified identity for all to see.

Would be an interesting poll I may do. Would you let your friends and family see your posts in this forum?

I wouldn't have a problem

 

[cytg111]

Would be an interesting poll I may do. Would you let your friends and family see your posts in this forum?

I wouldn't have a problem

Exactly to the point. And no. I wouldnt want my daughters to bear witness to some of the shit I have posted here over the last 20 years.
So lets agree that this shit is fluid and not an a solete.

 

[Moonbeam]

Silence on the right indicates what they are willing to tolerate. If an R comes out in favor of pro-choice the chorus of disapproval will be loud and wide. Let that same R openly opine on bringing back the laws forbidding interracial marriage and there is silence.

They won't openly admit to being racist but they are sure as hell willing to tolerate it with silence.

That is correct and that, not some movement wide antipathy to interracial marriage, however fondly they might ultimately embrace it, is the real issue. It is this go along, get along Stockholm syndrome like behavior that makes the cult of conservatism a dangerous phenomenon, in my opinion. Again, the left looks to symptoms of the mental illness that plagues the right and not the mental illness and what causes it themselves that I see as a major problem for the left. They get triggered and angry rather than prepared for constructive action. The real challenges are massive and frustration and tantrum throwing are easy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly to the point. And no. I wouldnt want my daughters to bear witness to some of the shit I have posted here over the last 20 years.
So lets agree that this shit is fluid and not an a solete.

Buenos días, solete.

 

[Moonbeam]

Truth is that this forum is full of relatively educated folks and that demographic skews heavily Democrat with a fairly even split between moderate and liberal viewpoints.

Unfortunately that means posting here is to a large degree "preaching to the choir" most of the time.... most "conservatives" in this forum (with a few notable exceptions) are just paid trolls/schill's and their minds will not be changed.

Incidentally I'M a "moderate" Democrat myself fwiw .... Joe Manchin is NOT a moderate Democrat he's a traitor to his party and closer to being GOP.

I used to call myself a progressive Democrat but that title seems to have been appropriated by the woke, Democrats who lean toward the authoritarian side of the political spectrum. I have used the term third way to describe what I see but that too has become an appropriated term. There really is, then, not a name for my political perspective as I believe it is a product of a conscious state of awareness also for which there is no name. The thing about conscious states of awareness, or even if you think they are real, depends on having had that experience yourself. I don't think most people know what the hell I am talking about most of the time. For example:

There is one truth and it covers us all. When you approach paradox you approach truth because: Truth is a third way of seeing based on the integration of opposites at a higher level of understanding:

As a political example, I am opposed to conservative boot-strap thinking and liberal social welfare to solve the problem of poverty. The reason, poverty is the result of being made to feel to worthless to be able to stand on one's own two feet and nobody values what is given for free. The answer therefore is to give and to do so only with the illusion that what is given is being earned. In this way we can begin to attack the illusion of powerlessness by profoundly easy to manage achievements and build the beginnings of real self respect. The left creates dependency and the right abandons the poor to their fate.

All of this happens because people do not realize that poverty is their real inner condition and money and worldly success in a competitive system is their substitute for what was lost, a supportive childhood where the development of empathy is its own reward,

 

[Captante]

I used to call myself a progressive Democrat but that title seems to have been appropriated by the woke, Democrats who lean toward the authoritarian side of the political spectrum. I have used the term third way to describe what I see but that too has become an appropriated term. There really is, then, not a name for my political perspective as I believe it is a product of a conscious state of awareness also for which there is no name. The thing about conscious states of awareness, or even if you think they are real, depends on having had that experience yourself. I don't think most people know what the hell I am talking about most of the time. For example:

There is one truth and it covers us all. When you approach paradox you approach truth because: Truth is a third way of seeing based on the integration of opposites at a higher level of understanding:

As a political example, I am opposed to conservative boot-strap thinking and liberal social welfare to solve the problem of poverty. The reason, poverty is the result of being made to feel to worthless to be able to stand on one's own two feet and nobody values what is given for free. The answer therefore is to give and to do so only with the illusion that what is given is being earned. In this way we can begin to attack the illusion of powerlessness by profoundly easy to manage achievements and build the beginnings of real self respect. The left creates dependency and the right abandons the poor to their fate.

All of this happens because people do not realize that poverty is their real inner condition and money and worldly success in a competitive system is their substitute for what was lost, a supportive childhood where the development of empathy is its own reward,

Embracing "wokeness" was a huge mistake for main-stream Democrats and gave the GOP mouth-pieces a legit subject to complain about for a change.

That's not to imply the far-left doesn't have some awesome (and altruistic) ideas that I'd LOVE to see put in effect it's just that they don't seem to ever get far past the "concept" stage and into the wheel-house of actually getting things done.

Sucks.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Embracing "wokeness" was a huge mistake for main-stream Democrats and gave the GOP mouth-pieces a legit subject to complain about for a change.

That's not to imply the far-left doesn't have some awesome (and altruistic) ideas that I'd LOVE to see put in effect it's just that they don't seem to ever get far past the "concept" stage and into the wheel-house of actually getting things done.

Sucks.

Can't get things done when 50% of the Congress will oppose you "because reasons".

 

[ch33zw1z]

Embracing "wokeness" was a huge mistake for main-stream Democrats and gave the GOP mouth-pieces a legit subject to complain about for a change.

That's not to imply the far-left doesn't have some awesome (and altruistic) ideas that I'd LOVE to see put in effect it's just that they don't seem to ever get far past the "concept" stage and into the wheel-house of actually getting things done.

Sucks.

I disagree, the right, as per usual, just labels whatever they want as "woke" and it's ez to market to their voters that way.

It's not about being "woke", it's about America for all Americans, regardless of conditions. Something conservatives aren't keen on, at all.

Maybe Democrats could market it better, but a part of their problem is expecting a certain level of thinking and education in voters....which isn't smart.

 

[Captante]

I disagree, the right, as per usual, just labels whatever they want as "woke" and it's ez to market to their voters that way.

It's not about being "woke", it's about America for all Americans, regardless of conditions. Something conservatives aren't keen on, at all.

Maybe Democrats could market it better, but a part of their problem is expecting a certain level of thinking and education in voters....which isn't smart.

Per the far right (and lately the not so far right) "Woke" applies to pretty much anything the Democrats support!




Also "marketing" is the primary difference between Burger King and McDonalds.... lately we've (Dems) been giving off a serious BK vibe too!

 

[ivwshane]

Embracing "wokeness" was a huge mistake for main-stream Democrats and gave the GOP mouth-pieces a legit subject to complain about for a change.

That's not to imply the far-left doesn't have some awesome (and altruistic) ideas that I'd LOVE to see put in effect it's just that they don't seem to ever get far past the "concept" stage and into the wheel-house of actually getting things done.

Sucks.

Can you give me examples of the Democratic Party embracing wokeness? Like is advocating For fair and equal treatment of gays an example of woke?

 

[Captante]

Can you give me examples of the Democratic Party embracing wokeness? Like is advocating For fair and equal treatment of gays an example of woke?

Again per the far right it absolutely is. (or some equally derogatory term)

Along with Dr Seuss.

So is easy access to mail-in ballots for all voters.

And rules forcing automakers to make "greener" cars.

And allowing women to have control over their own bodies.

I could go on and on.... but I won't. (you're welcome!)

 

[Amused]

Again per the far right it absolutely is. (or some equally derogatory term)

Along with Dr Seuss.

So is easy access to mail-in ballots for all voters.

And rules forcing automakers to make "greener" cars.

And allowing women to have control over their own bodies.

I could go on and on.... but I won't. (you're welcome!)

So, medical autonomy, equality under the law for all races, genders and sexualities, basic human rights for all and not being murdered by pollution is "woke?"

Oh, and the estate of an author pulling a book of their own free will because of outdated racial stereotypes CHILDREN really shouldn't be learning from. Let's not forget that. How dare people control their OWN property based on THEIR OWN morals.

The word "woke" itself is less an accusation than a "confession." The right-wing has drown itself in "redpilling" and "waking up" and "down the rabbit hole" to the cabal and deep state Q anti-vax etc conspiracy batshit.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Per the far right (and lately the not so far right) "Woke" applies to pretty much anything the Democrats support!




Also "marketing" is the primary difference between Burger King and McDonalds.... lately we've (Dems) been giving off a serious BK vibe too!

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what woke is, R's just push another catchphrase to label and attack anything different and the R voters eat it up. They brains are built for it.

 

[A///]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what woke is, R's just push another catchphrase to label and attack anything different and the R voters eat it up. They brains are built for it.

I always assumed Republicans hated the word "woke" and "Woke" things because it was a word used by a type of people they generally dislike and actively work against to reduce their voting abilities. If you really think about, the Republicans also do their own version of woke and cancel culture, but it's fine when they do it.
Up there with the morons burning their janky Nikes they had already bought.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what woke is, R's just push another catchphrase to label and attack anything different and the R voters eat it up. They brains are built for it.

You both seem to be in agreement. I think the issue is that for some reason Captante claimed the right raging against "woke" was legitimate when I think he meant the opposite.

And yes, the right views all Dem/liberal things as woke. Just like they claim literally everything is cancel culture. Its just bullshit but most of the population gobbles it up because they refuse to learn anything.

I always assumed Republicans hated the word "woke" and "Woke" things because it was a word used by a type of people they generally dislike and actively work against to reduce their voting abilities. If you really think about, the Republicans also do their own version of woke and cancel culture, but it's fine when they do it.
Up there with the morons burning their janky Nikes they had already bought.

They do. They use it as a pejorative, just like they did with SJW and all the other terms that actually make a ton of sense and right wingers being fucking morons cannot understand it, so they try to insult it (often in insane ways that just blows back on them), which then turns into just them getting mad because of their own stupidity, so then they demonize it.

Legit, the source cause of the behavioral issues we're seeing from right wingers is their brains do not understand stuff like irony and sarcasm, but that causes them to try to use it when its something they don't like (hence when they set out to insult stuff only to make fools of themselves), which then causes a feedback loop of anger, triggering their fight or flight response, causing their brains to perceive things at real threats when not only are they not "real" in the sense its not an actual physical threat, its often not a threat at all, but they've been conditioned to see it as such, which is they the decades of indoctrination that conservatives go through matters and why they want to expand it.

 

[A///]

You both seem to be in agreement. I think the issue is that for some reason Captante claimed the right raging against "woke" was legitimate when I think he meant the opposite.

And yes, the right views all Dem/liberal things as woke. Just like they claim literally everything is cancel culture. Its just bullshit but most of the population gobbles it up because they refuse to learn anything.



They do. They use it as a pejorative, just like they did with SJW and all the other terms that actually make a ton of sense and right wingers being fucking morons cannot understand it, so they try to insult it (often in insane ways that just blows back on them), which then turns into just them getting mad because of their own stupidity, so then they demonize it.

Legit, the source cause of the behavioral issues we're seeing from right wingers is their brains do not understand stuff like irony and sarcasm, but that causes them to try to use it when its something they don't like (hence when they set out to insult stuff only to make fools of themselves), which then causes a feedback loop of anger, triggering their fight or flight response, causing their brains to perceive things at real threats when not only are they not "real" in the sense its not an actual physical threat, its often not a threat at all, but they've been conditioned to see it as such, which is they the decades of indoctrination that conservatives go through matters and why they want to expand it.

You're not wrong. I've had them say racist stuff and look at me as if I'd agree with them and with what they said, too. There's been some attempts at conservative comedy shows or late nights in the past but all failed due to low ratings and not being funny at all.. Never mind the weird obsession they have with George Carlin when the man hated them back when he was alive.

 

[ivwshane]

Again per the far right it absolutely is. (or some equally derogatory term)

Along with Dr Seuss.

So is easy access to mail-in ballots for all voters.

And rules forcing automakers to make "greener" cars.

And allowing women to have control over their own bodies.

I could go on and on.... but I won't. (you're welcome!)

Hmm…I’d hardly consider that woke. Woke to me would be embracing the whole pronoun thing or the me too movement. Both are just another way to be respectful to “others” but I wouldn’t classify either as something democrats have embraced in any meaningful way (there aren’t bills being introduced for example).

Where I see “woke” culture happening the most is on social media but without 100% user verification who knows who is behind any such “wokeness”. If you don’t use social media then your day to day encounter with it will be exactly zero (for most people anyway).

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what woke is, R's just push another catchphrase to label and attack anything different and the R voters eat it up. They brains are built for it.

You both seem to be in agreement. I think the issue is that for some reason Captante claimed the right raging against "woke" was legitimate when I think he meant the opposite.

And yes, the right views all Dem/liberal things as woke. Just like they claim literally everything is cancel culture. Its just bullshit but most of the population gobbles it up because they refuse to learn anything.



They do. They use it as a pejorative, just like they did with SJW and all the other terms that actually make a ton of sense and right wingers being fucking morons cannot understand it, so they try to insult it (often in insane ways that just blows back on them), which then turns into just them getting mad because of their own stupidity, so then they demonize it.

Legit, the source cause of the behavioral issues we're seeing from right wingers is their brains do not understand stuff like irony and sarcasm, but that causes them to try to use it when its something they don't like (hence when they set out to insult stuff only to make fools of themselves), which then causes a feedback loop of anger, triggering their fight or flight response, causing their brains to perceive things at real threats when not only are they not "real" in the sense its not an actual physical threat, its often not a threat at all, but they've been conditioned to see it as such, which is they the decades of indoctrination that conservatives go through matters and why they want to expand it.

We can accurate say, in my opinion, that conservatives have a brain condition that can be characterized by how it manifests, but without an explanation that can tell us more about how such a condition might arise for some individuals and not the liberals who can detect its presence, we are left in a paralyzed state. Without any theory of how conservatives become conservative we can’t know if there is any cure for it. The difference between being in the dark about the origins of such a condition and simple assuming it is just some random given as opposed to knowing the origin, assuming one exists is huge in my opinion. Knowledge is power where knowledge exists.

Unfortunately, if the cause that creates conservative brains is one of those paradoxes that if resolved at a higher level of understanding is the opposite side of the same coin that creates the liberal brain, it will work out in the end to neither side wanting anything at all to do with such knowledge. Only those who have this resolution of opposites via a third conscious state will have any real understanding. For others there will remain the a resistance to any such awareness.