IS the human fetus a parasite according to science? and other stuff.

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Feb 29, 2012
46
0
0
Take your time meathead:rolleyes:


"1. a) A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species (a heterospecific relationship) and deriving its nourishment from the host (is metabolically dependent on the host). (See Cheng, T.C., General Parasitology, p. 7, 1973.)"

wrong, i like i posted before:

"It is also possible for a symbiotic relationship to exist between two organisms of the same species."
http://www.answers.com/topic/symbiosis -- Gale's Science of Everyday Things.
just like a parasitic twin --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_twin
"an animal or plant that lives in or on another (the host) from which it obtains nourishment. The host does not benefit from the association and is often harmed by it"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parasite

your site omitted symbiotic conspecific relationships, like parasitic twins and the woman/fetus relationship:
"Conspecificity is a concept in biology. Two or more individual organisms, populations, or taxa are conspecific if they belong to the same species.[1]
Where different species can interbreed and their gametes compete, the conspecific gametes take precedence over heterospecific gametes. This is known as conspecific sperm precedence or conspecific pollen precedence in plants."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspecificity


"This homospecific relationship is an obligatory dependent relationship, but not a parasitic relationship."

LOL! THAT SENTENCE RIGHT PROVES THE FETUS IS A PARASITE:
"obligate parasite (obligatory parasite) one that is entirely dependent upon a host for its survival."
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/parasite


"2. a) A parasite is an invading organism -- coming to parasitize the host from an outside source."
THE ZYGOTE IS A FOREIGN OBJECT.

b) A human embryo or fetus is formed from a fertilized egg -- the egg coming from an inside source, being formed in the ovary of the mother from where it moves into the oviduct where it may be fertilized to form the zygote -- the first cell of the new human being.
THE ZYGOTE IS A FOREIGN OBJECT BECAUSE IT CONTAINS HALF THE MAN'S DNA.


3. a) A parasite is generally harmful to some degree to the host that is harboring the parasite.
pregnancy CAUSES HARM: http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm

b) A human embryo or fetus developing in the uterine cavity does not usually cause harm to the mother, although it may if proper nutrition and care is not maintained by the mother.
YEAH, BESIDES WHAT IS IN THE LINK ABOVE.

4. a) A parasite makes direct contact with the host's tissues, often holding on by either mouth parts, hooks or suckers to the tissues involved (intestinal lining, lungs, connective tissue, etc.).
b) A human embryo or fetus makes direct contact with the uterine lining of the mother for only a short period of time. It soon becomes isolated inside its own amniotic sac, and from that point on makes indirect contact with the mother only by way of the umbilical cord and placenta.

WELL, THAT STUPID BECAUSE THE PLACENTA IS PART OF THE FETUS!

5. a) When a parasite invades host tissue, the host tissue will sometimes respond by forming a capsule (of connective tissue) to surround the parasite and cut it off from other surrounding tissue (examples would be Paragonimus westermani, lung fluke, or Oncocerca volvulus, a nematode worm causing cutaneous filariasis in the human).
b) When the human embryo or fetus attaches to and invades the lining tissue of the mother's uterus, the lining tissue responds by surrounding the human embryo and does not cut it off from the mother, but rather establishes a means of close contact (the placenta) between the mother and the new human being.
YOUR ARTICLE ADMITTED THAT THE FETUS INVADED!

I LIKE I SAID BEFORE:The placenta functions as an immunological barrier between the mother and the fetus, creating an immunologically privileged site. For this purpose, it uses several mechanisms:
It secretes Neurokinin B containing phosphocholine molecules. This is the same mechanism used by parasitic nematodes to avoid detection by the immune system of their host.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_tolerance_in_pregnancy

" Due to its highly-negative charge, hCG may repel the immune cells of the mother, protecting the fetus during the first trimester. It has also been hypothesized that hCG may be a placental link for the development of local maternal immunotolerance."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chorionic_gonadotropin



6. a) When a parasite invades a host, the host will usually respond by forming antibodies in response to the somatic antigens (molecules comprising the body of the parasite) or metabolic antigens (molecules secreted or excreted by the parasite) of the parasite. Parasitism usually involves an immunological response on the part of the host. (See Cheng, T.C., General Parasitology, p. 8.)
b) New evidence, presented by Beer and Billingham in their article, "The Embryo as a Transplant" (Scientific American, April, 1974), indicates that the mother does react to the presence of the embryo by producing humoral antibodies,
but they suggest that the trophoblast -- the jacket of cells surrounding the embryo -- blocks the action of these antibodies and therefore the embryo or fetus is not rejected. This reaction is unique to the embryo-mother relationship.

SO LIKE A PARASITE THE ZYGOTE, HAS MECHANISMS TO STOP IT FORM BEING KILLED, BECAUSE IT'S A FOREIGN OBJECT AND AN INVADER.

7. a) A parasite is generally detrimental to the reproductive capacity of the invaded host. The host may be weakened, diseased or killed by the parasite, thus reducing or eliminating the host's capacity to reproduce.
b) A human embryo or fetus is absolutely essential to the reproductive capacity of the involved mother (and species). The mother is usually not weakened, diseased or killed by the presence of the embryo or fetus, but rather is fully tolerant of this offspring which must begin his or her life in this intimate and highly specialized relationship with the mother.


WOW, THAT'S A COP-OUT, READ THE LINKS THAT I ALREADY POSTED. WTF, ARE THE RF-FACTORS PROBLEMS ABOUT?
http://pregnancy.about.com/od/rhfactor/a/Rh-Factor-in-Pregnancy.htm


8. a) A parasite is an organism that, once it invades the definitive host, will usually remain with host for life (as long as it or the host survives).
b) A human embryo or fetus has a temporary association with the mother, remaining only a number of months in the uterus.

parasite [par´ah-sīt] 1. a plant or animal that lives upon or within another living organism at whose expense it obtains some advantage; see also symbiosis. Parasites include multicelled and single-celled animals, fungi, and bacteria, and some authorities also include viruses.Those that feed upon human hosts can cause diseases ranging from the mildly annoying to the severe or even fatal. (See accompanying table.)
X2604-P-12.png
Types of parasites.


2. parasitic fetus.
adj., adj parasit´ic.accidental parasite one that parasitizes an organism other than the usual host.
facultative parasite one that may be parasitic upon another organism but can exist independently.
incidental parasite accidental parasite.
malarial parasite Plasmodium.
obligate parasite (obligatory parasite) one that is entirely dependent upon a host for its survival.
periodic parasite one that parasitizes a host for short periods.
temporary parasite one that lives free of its host during part of its life cycle.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/parasite

pretty sure they will have to add the picture of a fetus. hehehehehe.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
...so a baby is a cancer caused by a pathogen?! ...like HPV. A baby is a cancer resulting from an STD! :eek: :D
And after causing all kinds of problems, the tumor wants to forcibly leave the host body. Then before you know it, it's demanding regular access to boobs.
Goddamn tumors.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Wow...so OP, are you trying to justify something to yourself? Your interpretations of definitions are interesting however it all hinges on your (sad) opinion and interpretation of what a "foreign species" is...notice I say species and not object, you see a living thing regardless of what it might be is not an "object", no matter how hard you might try to trivialize and dehumanize it. Our, and by coincidence every other mammals, existance depends on this specific biological function, so to attempt to degrade that function that evolution has given us all is just sad...I'm going to refrain from guessing your true motives behind your trying to rationalize how a fetus is a parasite and just say I hope you get better some day.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
So which of the other parasites scientists agree are parasites, end up the way fetuses end up being infants, adolescents, adults, yada yada.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
2. parasitic fetus.
adj., adj parasit´ic.accidental parasite one that parasitizes an organism other than the usual host.
facultative parasite one that may be parasitic upon another organism but can exist independently.
incidental parasite accidental parasite.
malarial parasite Plasmodium.
obligate parasite (obligatory parasite) one that is entirely dependent upon a host for its survival.
periodic parasite one that parasitizes a host for short periods.
temporary parasite one that lives free of its host during part of its life cycle.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/parasite

pretty sure they will have to add the picture of a fetus. hehehehehe.

is this intentional misquoting of the link http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/parasitic+fetus

parasitic fetus [-sit′ik] Etymology: Gk, parasitos + L, icus, like, fetus, pregnant

the smaller, usually malformed member of conjoined, unequal, or asymmetric twins that is attached to and dependent on the more normal fetus for growth and development.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Hmm...pretty sure a parasite is a FOREIGN organism invading a body, since a fetus is/was a part of the body to begin with and just mutates that would preclude it from being a parasite.

You on the other hand seem like you might fit that title...

Look up how a virus propagates. Invades a cell and reprograms the cell's reproductive system to make new virus.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
So which of the other parasites scientists agree are parasites, end up the way fetuses end up being infants, adolescents, adults, yada yada.

Quite a few do that look at ticks. but most just skip that and just release eggs to reinfect the host, anus itch? That is a new batch of eggs calling for a good scratch and a quick journey back to your mouith.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Look up how a virus propagates. Invades a cell and reprograms the cell's reproductive system to make new virus.
And some of these pathogen things can affect the behavior of the host or infected organism.
Sperm are clearly the problem here. Human males are little more than sophisticated sperm delivery systems.

After all, what does the human central nervous system look like? That's right, it's a giant sperm.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Misquotes and twisted personal interpretations are all he has...

What does that have to do with any of this? He's attempting to twist logic to call a fetus a parasite not a virus...

Pa-tA-to, po-ta-tO, they operate the same.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
Which brings me to my favorite new Santorum TV show.
"Are You Smarter Than A Parasite?"
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Pa-tA-to, po-ta-tO, they operate the same.

Yeah...right...

You know a lot of people have joked about this at times, myself included, however to adamantly argue it's true takes a pathological delusion of a special kind, and to be swayed by it is even more "special".

One last nugget before I leave this for good, how many parasites only exhibit those traits for 9 months, or an extremely short portion, of their existence then live independently for the remainder?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
actually, no.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] "

[/url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 [/url]

so, i'm not a troll, science being inflammatory IS subjective, and i don't really care if your piddly-little-feelings are hurt by my thread or not--- and i posted this is the OFF-SECTION where this topic is allowed.

so logically, i'm not a troll.

please prove the science wrong, or go play WOW or something.

Unfortunately we can't prove anything since you lack the basic comprehension of the argument you are trying to field.
 
Feb 29, 2012
46
0
0
Wow...so OP, are you trying to justify something to yourself?

justify what? i'm at peace, with science.



Your interpretations of definitions are interesting however it all hinges on your (sad) opinion and interpretation of what a "foreign species" is...notice I say species and not object,

the pot calling the cattle black, what you are willing being intellectually dishonest about: IT DOESN'T MATTER SPECIES OR OBJECT! A PARASITE IS A PARASITE...THERE ARE PARASITIC TWINS THAT EXIST IN OUR REALITY!


you see a living thing regardless of what it might be is not an "object", no matter how hard you might try to trivialize and dehumanize it.

THAT'S A COP-OUT. YAWN! how is saying a fetus is parasite, is duhumanzing it... when science proves that the HUMAN fetus IS a parasite?

no, what i feel is that you are BUTTHURT! the science on this thread is destroying your world-view and place in the cosmos, and you are afraid of new philosophies...this truthful-science will not stop women from getting pregnancy and WANTED having babies.



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or in politics, but it is not the path to knowledge, and there's no place for it in the endeavor of science[/SIZE][/FONT]..."

carl sagan.


Our, and by coincidence every other mammals, existance depends on this specific biological function, so to attempt to degrade that function that evolution has given us all is just sad...I'm going to refrain from guessing your true motives behind your trying to rationalize how a fetus is a parasite and just say I hope you get better some day.

saying a fetus is a parasite, with the basic science to back it up....is not degrading nor sad, that is your opinion, and it's subjective.

seek enlightenment, not CREATIONISM!
 
Feb 29, 2012
46
0
0
Unfortunately we can't prove anything since you lack the basic comprehension of the argument you are trying to field.


really? nice cop-out!

prove how i relate the series of links providing how the fetus being a parasite, wrong.

it's not hard. TADA!
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,578
5,990
136
Go ask the nearest happy pregnant woman how her parasite of an unborn child is doing. I'm sure it will end well.