Is the .22 caliber even close to being adaquate for self defense use?

[Jack Ryan]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This is where many gun discussions with 'wannabe' gun toters go amiss.

In a stressed situation, most are not going to remove their weapon and pull off a 'head shot' while being assailed.

Many can be hit with a .22 or sometimes even larger round in these panic/adrenaline type situations and not even know it...

The larger caliber weapon improves your chances at a disabling shot.

A guy facing 10-20-life that you now have seen and could probably identify, will probably take his odds on a .22, or even higher powered gun...you want to make sure you stop him.

Most don't understand that all of life is not just Starbucks and talking on their cell driving to work and back each day.

Actually, I think to most, life doesn't mean barricading your home and outfitting everyone in your house with weapons. Where the F do you people live?

Who's talking about barricading homes? By looking at us, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell who is armed and who is not. What part of "concealed carry" do you not understand?

I have actually sat here for 5 minutes trying to comprehend what you just wrote. In my experience, a conversation involves two people that respond to each other. Your reply was the most moronic thing I have read on this forum.

I doubt that. Try reading what you posted earlier.

You stated that, to most, life doesn't consist of barricading homes. Fine. Which one of us here has mentioned barricading homes and outfitting everyone with weapons? From what I read out of alkemyst's post, he's saying that -- sometimes -- crap happens, whether you expect it or not. Might as well be prepared. You are implying that people are building bunkers out of their houses -- I am saying that you wouldn't even be able to tell which of us is armed.

If you can't understand this, do us all a favor and never purchase a firearm.

You're taking examples to the extreme.

Wow, great point. I will never be able to tell which one of you is armed. Guess that is something to be proud of!

Don't worry, I won't ever buy a gun, let alone walk around town with one. I don't need to feel tough, I already know I am.

 

[jlee]

Wow, great point. I will never be able to tell which one of you is armed. Guess that is something to be proud of!

Would make you think twice about pulling a knife on someone, wouldn't it. Go educate yourself.

Don't worry, I won't ever buy a gun, let alone walk around town with one. I don't need to feel tough, I already know I am.

And cocky as hell, too!

 

[Jack Ryan]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Wow, great point. I will never be able to tell which one of you is armed. Guess that is something to be proud of!

Would make you think twice about pulling a knife on someone, wouldn't it. Go educate yourself.

Don't worry, I won't ever buy a gun, let alone walk around town with one. I don't need to feel tough, I already know I am.

And cocky as hell, too!

I don't live in a place where I need to *think* about pulling a knife on someone or where I have to carry a gun to defend myself.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Wow, great point. I will never be able to tell which one of you is armed. Guess that is something to be proud of!

Would make you think twice about pulling a knife on someone, wouldn't it. Go educate yourself.

Don't worry, I won't ever buy a gun, let alone walk around town with one. I don't need to feel tough, I already know I am.

And cocky as hell, too!

I don't live in a place where I need to *think* about pulling a knife on someone or where I have to carry a gun to defend myself.

What state? Glad to hear your crime rate is zero!

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Wow, great point. I will never be able to tell which one of you is armed. Guess that is something to be proud of!

Would make you think twice about pulling a knife on someone, wouldn't it. Go educate yourself.

Don't worry, I won't ever buy a gun, let alone walk around town with one. I don't need to feel tough, I already know I am.

And cocky as hell, too!

I don't live in a place where I need to *think* about pulling a knife on someone or where I have to carry a gun to defend myself.

What state? Glad to hear your crime rate is zero!

Don't bother with him, he thinks he is invincible to crime, and will never have to defend himself. You can't educate the stupid ones.

 

[Toastedlightly]

IIRC, Jack Ryan is a character from Tom Clancy books... and that character used a concealed weapon to save some Brittish folks... interesting.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I can't help but wonder...all of you saying that a .22 is fine -- do you carry one?

Yes, an North American Arms .22mag.

Something is better than nothing. I often don't want something poking or sticking me or being uncomfortable. That slips in the pocket, is smaller than a cell phone, and a lot louder

:thumbsup:

Everything else being equal, would you carry a .22 over a larger caliber? Example Walther P22 (.22lr) vs Sig P239 (9mm).

Negative. Only carry it because it's as small as possible while still providing some level of defense. Even with no shirt and just shorts and sandals can still have something.

I have a P3AT as my next step up, and is generally what I carry daily, front pants pocket.

Above that, and very rarely carried, almost never due to size, a Kel-tec P11. But does have a belt clip for IWB.

I guess even above that is a Glock 32 (compact .357 Sig) but have never carried it, way too big.

Of course I'd prefer a larger hole maker, but not practical for how I dress.

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

Well, I own both a Walther P22 and a Taurus 44 Mag, and I can vouch for the fact that the P22 does love to jam. Actually... it seems that it's not prone to jamming as much as it is just a very, VERY, picky gun as far as which ammo you put in it. I can shoot CCI rounds all day long with no jams, but anything from Federal results in 3 or 4 jams per magazine. I only buy CCI now for it. I've tried other brands with mixed results.

But would I trust the .22 for self defense? No, not if I've got a .44 next to it. I feel the .44 leaves a smaller chance of merely pissing off the attacker. If I'm truly in fear for my life... if some guy is breaking into my home at night, I sure as hell don't want to dink him with a .22 and then wait and see if it incapacitated him or not. For all I know, during that time he's about to return fire. While I COULD incapacitate him with a .22, I think the .44 is more likely to. If someone's breaking into my house, I'm not gonna wait and see if they're incapacitated; I'm gonna do my best to stop them NOW. Because in that circumstance, in my opinion... they've just forfeit their life.


If all I had was a .22, I would use it, as it's better than nothing. But between my two guns... having the choice... I'll take the .44 if my life is on the line.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Of course I'd prefer a larger hole maker, but not practical for how I dress.

Sure - I understand. :thumbsup:

Just wanted to clarify for some of the others around.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob

Originally posted by: FoBoT
12 GA shotgun , pump action is good

As long as you're using a slug or buckshot, anyway. Birdshot will just tick the guy off.

I absolutely hate these threads.

<sarcasm>
Any of you people thinking that .22 or birdshot is ineffective against an attacker should think about shooting yourself to find out. Yaknow, see if a hit from either of those will just tick you off.
</sarcasm -- disclaimer: of course, I'm not suggesting that you actually shoot yourself, just fsckin' think about it>

I mean, WTF? Fleshwounds? Bounce off a jacket? Get hit and not even know it? :roll: STFU.

Originally posted by: Jeeebus
5 pages of ignoring what the initial question was: Is a .22 adequate to defend yourself?

99% of the time... if you shoot somebody with a bullet, any bullet, they're probably not going to be continuing the attack. All you people insisting on .45s and such as the minimum needed... why not just use a fawkin BFG that way you're sure to incinerate all attackers within a 100 yard vicinity?

Is a .22 sufficient to defend yourself? Sure, the same way a knife is, a bow and arrow is, a hand grenade, a m82a1 .50 cal sniper rifle is, etc. Properly used, I can defend myself with my blackberry.

Now if you're expecting to be attacked by a gang of 50-strong ninja pirates, you may want something different.

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

 

[jlee]

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

Meh I've been shot point blank with a .38 (negligence, woops!) and didn't even feel it. Granted it was an FMJ, and in the leg, but was just a warm, tingling feeling. 0 pain.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

Meh I've been shot point blank with a .38 (negligence, woops!) and didn't even feel it. Granted it was an FMJ, and in the leg, but was just a warm, tingling feeling. 0 pain.

Not even the close range powder burn on the surrounding undestroyed tissue?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

Meh I've been shot point blank with a .38 (negligence, woops!) and didn't even feel it. Granted it was an FMJ, and in the leg, but was just a warm, tingling feeling. 0 pain.

Not even the close range powder burn on the surrounding undestroyed tissue?

Was through jeans, straight in and out, perfect circle on both sides of the leg

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

Meh I've been shot point blank with a .38 (negligence, woops!) and didn't even feel it. Granted it was an FMJ, and in the leg, but was just a warm, tingling feeling. 0 pain.

Yeah I've never been shot, but I highly doubt it's 1000 times more painful than any pain i've felt. I'd rather be shot with an average handgun than be stabbed with the average combat knife. I'd bet a knife wound would hurt a lot worse.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Meh I've been shot point blank with a .38 (negligence, woops!) and didn't even feel it. Granted it was an FMJ, and in the leg, but was just a warm, tingling feeling. 0 pain.

Text

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

I've been shot with an arrow (what can I say... kids do the darnest things, like tell their brother, "Hey see if you can hit me with that bow-and-arrow!) and it didn't hurt a whole lot until afterwards...and boy did it bleed... I didn't think my leg had that much blood in it. It was one of those stupid dull-point arrows you might buy for target practice. If that happened from a stupid arrow, I'd rather not try taking a bullet.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

Meh I've been shot point blank with a .38 (negligence, woops!) and didn't even feel it. Granted it was an FMJ, and in the leg, but was just a warm, tingling feeling. 0 pain.

Not even the close range powder burn on the surrounding undestroyed tissue?

Was through jeans, straight in and out, perfect circle on both sides of the leg

Sounds like a flat nose wad cutter of some kind.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Best post in the thread. Is a .22 ideal? No, IMO. However, it certainly can be adequate. This isn't the movies. In real life, getting shot takes the fight out of people, as they suddenly begin to concern themselves with the very real prospect of dying.

You're assuming their mental state is one in which they will realize they have a possibility of dying. In real life, a shot is quite often not fired -- the situation is reversed/ended when a firearm is displayed.

Yes, it may be adequate. Is it ideal? No. If it was, wouldn't LEOs be carrying .22s with 25rd magazines?

I already said that a .22 wasn't ideal.

Everyone's mental state in that type of situation is one in which they realize that have a real possibility of dying. Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

My mistake on the ideality comment - I must have missed it.

Of course you produce the weapon with intent to use it. However, if your assailant takes off running, it's not very ethical (or legal) to shoot him, is it? You don't always have to fire as soon as the weapon is up and ready. Some cases, yes..but not all..

 

[ryan256]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
My mistake on the ideality comment - I must have missed it.

Of course you produce the weapon with intent to use it. However, if your assailant takes off running, it's not very ethical (or legal) to shoot him, is it? You don't always have to fire as soon as the weapon is up and ready. Some cases, yes..but not all..

Sorry but if I'm ever in a situation where I feel threatened enough that I have to draw the other party will be shot. And my Glock .40 doesn't make very small holes either.

 

[KDOG]

People in this thread have gotten off track. The fact is a .22 will kill someone just as dead as any other round. The PLACEMENT of the shot is just as important.

 

[scraig]

Dont doubt the .22, they can be very deadly. Personally i have a .45ACP but i mainly shoot at the gun range, im not worried about someone trying to rob me or whatever.... but if they did, all i can say is OUCH for them.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: KDOG
People in this thread have gotten off track. The fact is a .22 will kill someone just as dead as any other round. The PLACEMENT of the shot is just as important.

*sigh*

Yes, it will kill someone. However, it probably won't be as quick as a larger round.

Nobody has answered this question yet -- if .22 is such an awesome defense round, why don't any law enforcement agencies use them? Why is it illegal to hunt deer with a .22lr?

 

[potato28]

.22's as a rifle round can be deadly(dear killer with good aim), but a .22 pistol for home-defense? Id rather have a 12 gauge shotgun or a .45.