Is the .22 caliber even close to being adaquate for self defense use?

[jlee]

New Hampshire hunting laws:

It is unlawful to:
hunt deer or bear with 1) a .22 caliber rimfire rifle

Up here (I assume elsewhere also?) it's illegal to hunt deer with a .22 rifle. That should be an indicator of the relative lack of power contained in a .22lr, even when fired from a long barrel. Sure, it may kill it...but most likely not right away.

If you all feel comfortable relying on a .22lr, more power to you.

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

New Hampshire hunting laws:

It is unlawful to:
hunt deer or bear with 1) a .22 caliber rimfire rifle

Up here (I assume elsewhere also?) it's illegal to hunt deer with a .22 rifle. That should be an indicator of the relative lack of power contained in a .22lr, even when fired from a long barrel. Sure, it may kill it...but most likely not right away.

If you all feel comfortable relying on a .22lr, more power to you.

My butcher's hunt every year. They use .22's exclusivly, and they usually get 2 300 pound deer. But different country, different regulations.

 

[alkemyst]

you freaking idiots know you can kill someone with a bb gun too right?

Still not the best choice to go out deer hunting or to use as self-defense.

In a true street situation, you are going to be lucky to make most if any of your shots hit...much of the time you will have already been assaulted prior to you having your 'whatever' drawn.

Relying on just a gun is a bad thing. You should know a little hand-to-hand too.

Still up close a knife is the leader in most situations. However, using a knife on someone also takes a level of bloodletting ability. A gun is like a video game...before you know what's happened it's over.

If I needed to pack I think a .380, .40 or 9mm would be my choices...if I could conceal a 1911 that would be nice...it I could legally conceal a full automatic, that would be better (assuming I never hit non-participants).

I have fired a lot of guns, for self defense I look at stopping power and legal magazine / clip limits. Getting 5-6 shots only probably would not be so good, getting 15+ probably overkill.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

without reading all the reply's I gotta ask do you plan on self defense against people wearing vests.....

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: potato28

Originally posted by: CadetLee

New Hampshire hunting laws:

It is unlawful to:
hunt deer or bear with 1) a .22 caliber rimfire rifle

Up here (I assume elsewhere also?) it's illegal to hunt deer with a .22 rifle. That should be an indicator of the relative lack of power contained in a .22lr, even when fired from a long barrel. Sure, it may kill it...but most likely not right away.

If you all feel comfortable relying on a .22lr, more power to you.

My butcher's hunt every year. They use .22's exclusivly, and they usually get 2 300 pound deer. But different country, different regulations.

Where are you finding 300lb deer!?

 

[thebigdude]

If it is for home defense a shotgun is your best bet. The sound of a shell being chambered should be enough unless they are in an impaired mental state. If they are shooting them will stop them regardless of whether they know they have been shot or not.

 

[jakedeez]

You people are all insane. A strong commanding voice will usually do it. A 22?!?! Are you guy?s nuts, that plenty for self defense.... who the hell are you defending yourself from? I live in DC and am moving to NYC, got an apartment in queens, do you guys live somewhere worse where you need a gun with, as someone put it "for self-defense, i like stopping power"

The only people who need a gun for self defense are people who live around bears. They need a huge gun, but come on, wtf situation are you going to be in where a 22 would be insufficient for self defense?

Originally posted by: preslove
If I were in a fire fight with some armed robbers I would want a .45. If I wanted to keep someone with a knife or baseball bat from taking my sh!t I would feel fine with a .22.

You play too many video games.

 

[jakedeez]

dp

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: jakedeez
You people are all insane. A strong commanding voice will usually do it. A 22?!?! Are you guy?s nuts, that plenty for self defense.... who the hell are you defending yourself from? I live in DC and am moving to NYC, got an apartment in queens, do you guys live somewhere worse where you need a gun with, as someone put it "for self-defense, i like stopping power"

The only people who need a gun for self defense are people who live around bears. They need a huge gun, but come on, wtf situation are you going to be in where a 22 would be insufficient for self defense?

Originally posted by: preslove
If I were in a fire fight with some armed robbers I would want a .45. If I wanted to keep someone with a knife or baseball bat from taking my sh!t I would feel fine with a .22.

You play too many video games.

Not everyone lives in a downtown metro with police seconds away. Average response time here from the sheriffs department is 7 minutes. A lot can happen in 7 minutes.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: jakedeez
You people are all insane. A strong commanding voice will usually do it. A 22?!?! Are you guy?s nuts, that plenty for self defense.... who the hell are you defending yourself from? I live in DC and am moving to NYC, got an apartment in queens, do you guys live somewhere worse where you need a gun with, as someone put it "for self-defense, i like stopping power"

The only people who need a gun for self defense are people who live around bears. They need a huge gun, but come on, wtf situation are you going to be in where a 22 would be insufficient for self defense?

Originally posted by: preslove
If I were in a fire fight with some armed robbers I would want a .45. If I wanted to keep someone with a knife or baseball bat from taking my sh!t I would feel fine with a .22.

You play too many video games.

DC? NYC? Heck, you /can't/ carry a gun, even if you wanted to.

As I said earlier (multiple times)..if a .22lr is such an awesome defense round, why don't you see LEOs carrying one as their duty firearm?

Edit: We don't have 24hr police coverage here. You want to wait 45min for cops to show up? Be my guest. You might want to call EMS and warn them ahead of time, too.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Vic
Take the worst pain you have ever known, multiply it times a thousand times, and that's what it feels like to get shot at ANY part of your body. The issue is that different people react to such a situation differently, mostly depending on whether they fight or flight in response to the adrenaline. No one, however, is unaffected, or not put into a state of extreme stress.

I would not recommend depending on a display to end the situation, ever. If you pull it, intend to use it, or don't pull it at all.

Like I said earlier, I have been shot low caliber through a hand...hardly by far the worst pain I have felt.

Most desk jockey's mileage may vary on this...working with my hands a lot cold crushing damage, thin deep slices, and ripping nails off pretty much stacks up there. One story I have was my best friend's dad once had a 1/2 ton wall unit put down on his toe...they lifted it almost instantly, but the swelling was so much for him he took his drill and drilled through his toe; then blood shot up and out.

Doc said at the time infection aside, he probably saved his toe. Luckily he had no infection.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: jakedeez
You people are all insane. A strong commanding voice will usually do it. A 22?!?! Are you guy?s nuts, that plenty for self defense.... who the hell are you defending yourself from? I live in DC and am moving to NYC, got an apartment in queens, do you guys live somewhere worse where you need a gun with, as someone put it "for self-defense, i like stopping power"

The only people who need a gun for self defense are people who live around bears. They need a huge gun, but come on, wtf situation are you going to be in where a 22 would be insufficient for self defense?

Originally posted by: preslove
If I were in a fire fight with some armed robbers I would want a .45. If I wanted to keep someone with a knife or baseball bat from taking my sh!t I would feel fine with a .22.

You play too many video games.

Not everyone lives in a downtown metro with police seconds away. Average response time here from the sheriffs department is 7 minutes. A lot can happen in 7 minutes.

you also need to have a life/stuff worth attacking, but on a guy like him; they are still going to think it's all make-believe.

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I would post a few old threads on this, but they all turn into flamewars as soon as the pantywaisted gungrabbers find them.

Skimming through threads like that, you'll generally find a smattering of 9mm, .40, and .357 - a .22 is definitely NOT enough unless you're that Charlie guy from Land of the Dead and can get a headshot the first time, every time.

- M4H

I love it.
That's awesome.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
I've been shot with an arrow (what can I say... kids do the darnest things, like tell their brother, "Hey see if you can hit me with that bow-and-arrow!) and it didn't hurt a whole lot until afterwards...and boy did it bleed... I didn't think my leg had that much blood in it. It was one of those stupid dull-point arrows you might buy for target practice. If that happened from a stupid arrow, I'd rather not try taking a bullet.

you should see some of those huntnig arrow heads that are like a buncha wicked barbed razor blades. insane stuff.

 

[bloodugly]

If you're not a great shot, just get a shotgun...pretty damn hard to miss. Its not small, but its effective. Just don't use some weak birdshot in it. I've unfortunately had to rid our ranch of some animal pests ( I seriously hate killing animals), and at 10 yards you can easily take the head pretty much off an animal with one. Immediate and painless death is the way to go if you have to put something down.

 

[theeedude]

.22 is OK if trespasser is a kid, but for adults, you need bigger caliber, IMO.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

New Hampshire hunting laws:

It is unlawful to:
hunt deer or bear with 1) a .22 caliber rimfire rifle

Up here (I assume elsewhere also?) it's illegal to hunt deer with a .22 rifle. That should be an indicator of the relative lack of power contained in a .22lr, even when fired from a long barrel. Sure, it may kill it...but most likely not right away.

If you all feel comfortable relying on a .22lr, more power to you.

Yes, and the .223 military caliber should be forbidden too...

 

[jakedeez]

Has anyone here ever had a situation where they had a .22 and it wasn't enough?

 

[PowerMacG5]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Greenman

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: pontifex
you've been making a lot of gun threads altely Jedi. You thinking about getting one or what?

thinking about it.. i like target practice at the range, but the ferengi in me hates paying anywhere close to $10 per box.

the .22 is $1 per box. that got my lobes perked.

but the 2nd part for me in owning a gun is self defense (street + home).

if a .22 has a hard time penetrating a puffy down ski jacket at 20feet, then it's close to useless for self defense.

looking for the optimum in price/performance bullet in an automatic.

automatic because i rather have 15 shots than the 6 in a revolver. in a combat situation, my acuracury will probably drop DRASTICALLY as compared to a range.

edit:
I rather have too many bullets than come up 1 short

A 22LR will penetrate a second chance vest. What everyone here is talking about is stopping power. In other words, how much damage the bullet does when it hits someone. A 22 will often as not go right through a person, leaving a small hole in them. A 44 on the other hand will go through as well but since it has a high velocity shock wave, it will make a very large hole, and impart a great deal of it?s energy into the victim

um.. didnt second chance face class action lawsuit because their vests failed to work as advertised? (ie: stop bullets)

btw- with the gun control law lapsing, how many rounds can i legally have in a clip now?

and whats the next size up to a 15round clip for a .22?

If you are in a state that still has an assault weapons ban, the max capacity of a magazine is 10. Otherwise, up to 100 rounds. The figures I am quoting applied to rifles, so I don't know if the handguns were completely analogous. Also, the federal law lapsed 2 years ago, but states like NY (where I live) re-wrote their own version of the law that did not sunset. I have an AR-15 with 3 pre-ban mags, so I am all set.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: jakedeez
Has anyone here ever had a situation where they had a .22 and it wasn't enough?

Oh sure... I dumped a whole clip of .22's into an assailant one time and he kept coming.

:roll:

 

[randay]

50 cal

 

[Injury]

I don't care what caliber it is, if you get shot, it's going to hurt like a bitch.

This isn't the movies, people don't take a bullet to the arm and keep walking like nothing happened.

The sheer surprise factor of being shot is going to stop a person long enough to shoot them a few more times.

So yeah, .22 is just dandy for self defense.

However, if you are planning on carrying it rather than keeping it in your desk drawer or some crap, a .22 usually isn't practical for the size, as a lot of them tend to have longer barrels and crap.

But I'm no expert in guns.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: bloodugly
If you're not a great shot, just get a shotgun...pretty damn hard to miss. Its not small, but its effective. Just don't use some weak birdshot in it. I've unfortunately had to rid our ranch of some animal pests ( I seriously hate killing animals), and at 10 yards you can easily take the head pretty much off an animal with one. Immediate and painless death is the way to go if you have to put something down.

You've obviously never fired a shotgun at close range before. Love how people keep saying you cant miss with a shotgun...

Whats really funny is the birdshot load that you are least likely to miss with is the one you are saying not to use!

With my Mossberg 590 20" 12ga with 9 pellet 00 tactical loads all 9 .30 cal pellets strike within a 4" circle at 10 yards. Aim and shot placement are just as essential with a shotgun as any other weapon, more so when you have more than 1 projectile to be accountable for with every shot.

 

[upsciLLion]

A .22 is better than nothing, but a 9mm (or .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 12 gauge, etc.) is better than a .22.

Originally posted by: exdeath
You've obviously never fired a shotgun before. Love how people keep saying you cant miss with a shotgun...

With my Mossberg 590 20" 12ga with 9 pellet 00 tactical loads all 9 .30 cal pellets strike within a 4" circle at 10 yards. Aim and shot placement are just as essential with a shotgun as any other weapon.

Using a rifled barrel can make the spread larger, but the difference is marginal.

Just sayin'!

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jakedeez
Has anyone here ever had a situation where they had a .22 and it wasn't enough?

Oh sure... I dumped a whole clip of .22's into an assailant one time and he kept coming.

:roll:

Agree with Vic

Is the .22 caliber even close to being adaquate for self defense use?

IMHO, the correct answer to the question as posed is "YES" even if it assumes that you must shoot them to disable them. But if you pull a gun on an assailant I don't think many are going to stand around trying to gauge the size caliber from the hole in the barrel. Also, if you gotta fire a warning shot, .22 pistols make a heckava loud noise (waaaay more than a .22 rifle), enough to scare the crap outta just about anybody.

BTW: For those who keep talking about "pain", I don't know if that's relevant. I got a mere flesh would with a .22 and it's not the pain that has an incapacitating effect - IMHO it's the onset of shock. If you're experiencing the effects of shock IMHO it's damn difficult to function to a level necessary to carry on a fight/attack. H3ll, I didn't feel it a good idea to try my car until my head cleared.

Maybe in a fight the adrenaline overcomes the effects of shock?

Lastly, my favorite carry pistol is .38 spc Police Chief Special. It's an older one that is a revolver. No chance to jam and real small for concealed carry in a front pocket.

Fern