Is saving yourself for marriage usually because...

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Why I think it is:
Possessive behavior of men. Around the world, men claim to love women, but they constantly oppress them so as to maintain a feeling of dominance, as mandated by testosterone. If a woman has not had sex with anyone else, that makes a man feel like he has some sort of ownership of her, and more specifically, like he has exclusive mating rights.

This kind of nonsense got worked into theology, so that it appeared that some powerful divine entity, instead of mere humans, was mandating this idea of virginity.
Now, thousands of years after such texts were penned, we still follow them. In some ways, progress comes quite slow for this species.

Part of it may have been male dominance. But a lot of religions wanted to establish disease free stable families. It was part of creating a stable culture and society. Get people to save themselves for marriage and you kill the spread of many diseases. Make marriage something that cannot be broken out of and people cannot spread whatever they have any further. The stricter the rules, the better in that respect.

STD's were in minority compared to everything else people were exposed too. I am not sure where you got this from.

 

[hanoverphist]

this has been a very entertaining thread. my opinions mean nothing, as i really have no desire to delve deep enough into a fabrication i dont personally believe in to prove you wrong, or to prove me correct. waiting has its merits, as does sampling the fare. i didnt wait, my ex wife didnt wait. we did, however, have a friendship and relation ship before we delved into the sexual world together, and were married and semi established before we had children. sex is as important to a relationship as the emotional side of it all, but sometimes sex is just sex. the whole immorality argument is ridiculous, its too much up for interpretation. which leads me to my non belief in most everything religious. the bible to me is a great motivational speech, created by man to keep people from offing themselves in a very harsh lifetime. it is hardly refutable, nor is it completely valid. fortunately, for me, ive made my opinion bed and im happily laying in it.

 

[hanoverphist]

double post... :frown:

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: ClarkJF

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Perhaps you could give me a reference as to what you are talking about. And I never said the we are any more/less sinners after marriage.

Also I don't appreciate you flaming me-- I haven't said a single negative thing about any person in this thread, and I would appreciate the same respect.

-Kevin

I am sorry, but I have a huge problem with Christians (and any zealot) that spews the I am better than thou doctrine and they don't even know WTF they are regurgitating.

I personally feel a child should not be able to pick a religion or be influenced by one until they are 12/13.

The majority of the followers out there in any religion have Santa Claus syndrome.

I think sexuality in the Bible was skewed by wanting taxes/tithes/virgins/etc.


anyway...if you really want to understand the bible read the history of the day at the same time. Contrast and compare what was happening in history vs the 'story'. Think about the financial reach of each character vs the 'story'. Think about the rules given and then what each character did in the 'story'.

I have found there is tons of contradictions. Also I have come to a conclusion that the islamic, christian, jewish, buddist, etc faiths are all very intertwined and probably sprang out of egyptian beliefs...but such discussion is not suited for general forums as too many of the brainwashed just barf dogma.

Well point out to me where, I have ever spewed the "I am better than thou"? In fact, I believe I say throughout the thread that I am not perfect and that I make the same mistakes everyone else does.

Additionally, what makes you believe that I don't know what I am talking about? I have argued this thread and many others with supporting books (Other than the Bible), as well as scriptural evidence. I'm only boasting in what the Lord has shown me, but it seems to me that I know at least something.

I have found there is tons of contradictions. Also I have come to a conclusion that the islamic, christian, jewish, buddist, etc faiths are all very intertwined and probably sprang out of egyptian beliefs...but such discussion is not suited for general forums as too many of the brainwashed just barf dogma.

The Bible has been scrutinized by scholars and others for thousands of years and nobody has found contradictions or ways to prove it wrong yet. If you have found merely a single way it contradicts itself, I would be more than happy to hear it and discuss perhaps my take on it.

As for intertwined, the only intertwined part about these faiths is that they are all monotheistic and try to embody the same characteristics among their followers (Compassion, Dutifulness, etc...). There are so many ways that Christianity is so different from any of these other religions.

It's a touchy thing really...

They said the Old Covenant was eternal.

Perhaps the biggest supporter of that though is:

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: ?He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.? (Matthew 15:4-7)

?Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and ?For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

So to sum it up I guess...

"He who keepeth the whole law, but offend it in one point, is guilty of all (James 2:10)."

Well first off, there may be a better translation than curse. Attack is a better word. Additionally, Jesus wasn't telling, based on my studying of that verse the Pharisees they needed to kill their children. Their children weren't even brought up at all. In this case he was reprimanding them for tithing (Giving corban) as an excuse to ignore their parents.

As for the first 2 passages, perhaps, a better way to look at it is not that they are invalid rather that they are fulfilled. For sacrifices, Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. He died to fulfill all of those laws for eternity.

As for the last verse you quotes; that is absolutely true. James 2:10 could not be any clearer. If you sin at all, even a simple lie, you are just as guilty, in God's eyes, as the man who has committed adultery. It is all sin in God's eyes; however, it is humans who put weight to the sin.

The beautiful thing about all of this is that even though we sin, God never keeps track. Just like the prodigals son, "we are lost but now we are found; dead but now alive". He welcomes us with open arms, the only thing we need to do, just as the son did, is ask.

-Kevin

You are mostly correct but where you go wrong is the bible clearly states that there are sins worse than others, i.e. the bible clearly states that 'to not care for your family is worse than being a non-believer', there are plenty of sins that cause greater punishment, all sins just like all commandments are not created equal.

It does not place weight on sins anywhere in the Bible. It is all sin in God's eyes. They mention that blasphemy is called the "unforgivable sin", yet, despite that it is most definitely forgivable if you ask forgiveness and mean it in your heart (Saul/Paul is the perfect example of this; moving towards a modern example, CS Lewis is a great example as well).

-Kevin

 

[jexxi]

virgin is no virgin if they already crave for sex...

 

[manlymatt83]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Just wondering as while there are a few that could get some action yet choose to remain a virgin...many I couldn't see anyone taking on except if the money was right or they had ran out of other options.

Just my thoughts.

Å

I waited until I was 21. Wish I started sooner but I had MANY opportunities. Just wanted to wait for the right one.

 

[amicold]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I'm sure if I went to parties and what not I'm sure it wouldn't take too long. I am saving myself for that one special girl whom God has planned for me in my life-- and it is going to be worth the wait I'm sure

Holy fvck I thought you were kidding the first time I read that. But I realize now you're not so after I hit enter I'm leaving this thread.

 

[BudAshes]

Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

very true

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

Really? I don't have any std's nor have I ever - not even crabs. I don't personally know anyone who has either. I wonder how prevalent it really is...

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Just wondering as while there are a few that could get some action yet choose to remain a virgin...many I couldn't see anyone taking on except if the money was right or they had ran out of other options.

Just my thoughts.

Å

there are two people that come to the top of my head are both extremely social, desirable, etc, but never hold 'put out' so to say. One gave in when he got engaged, the other hasn't given hers up yet either, though she is a bit of a floozy

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

crossing the street is dangerous, but people still do it every day.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

crossing the street is dangerous, but people still do it every day.

Crossing the street is arguably more necessary for most people than having sex.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

crossing the street is dangerous, but people still do it every day.

Crossing the street is arguably more necessary for most people than having sex.

False.

If you don't cross the street you are merely limited to things on your side of the street.

If you don't have sex, THE HUMAN RACE DIES OUT.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

Really? I don't have any std's nor have I ever - not even crabs. I don't personally know anyone who has either. I wonder how prevalent it really is...

Yeah, but do you ask everyone you meet if they've ever had an STD? I don't know about you, but getting/having an STD isn't exactly something I'd go around announcing to people, even close friends or family. Saying that is like the fat kid in Stand By Me saying he never knew anyone who fainted before, only you're probably more likely to know someone who's had an STD than someone who fainted.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

crossing the street is dangerous, but people still do it every day.

Crossing the street is arguably more necessary for most people than having sex.

False.

If you don't cross the street you are merely limited to things on your side of the street.

If you don't have sex, THE HUMAN RACE DIES OUT.

Not everyone has a desire to reproduce though. That's why I said arguably. For someone who lives in the middle of the city but has no desire to have children, crossing the street is necessary, but sex is not. For a couple who lives out in the suburbs that wants to have children, sex is necessary, but crossing the street probably isn't. They most likely drive everywhere.

I just meant you need to evaluate the statement on an individual basis. Not everyone wants children.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: amicold

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I'm sure if I went to parties and what not I'm sure it wouldn't take too long. I am saving myself for that one special girl whom God has planned for me in my life-- and it is going to be worth the wait I'm sure

Holy fvck I thought you were kidding the first time I read that. But I realize now you're not so after I hit enter I'm leaving this thread.

It's going to suck for him - God has a really weird sense of humor. The girl God has planned for him would actually have been met at an Uruk-hai themed role-playing orgy. But a "good Christian" would never go to such an event, despite having received an invitation to it.
Oh well.



That aside, it's kind of a prophecy that can't be botched up. No matter who you marry, you'll simply assume that she's the one God wanted you to be with. It wouldn't prove anything anyway. Its a journey, the destination of which is unknown. If you arrive at one possible destination, how can you really say that that's who you were "meant" to be with? Maybe the first woman you marry won't be the right one, maybe she'll be killed a year after you marry. Was she the one God wanted you to be with, and now he's just dispensing some mysterious "lesson" about life? Or is he punishing you for choosing the wrong one, and hoping you'll find the REAL "right" one?
I'd suggest a 20-sided die to help decide which is the correct choice.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Yet another reason to wait. If you are with someone whom you love and you know you will love until "Death parts [you]" -- why should it matter? Plus if you both had the same mindset, that girl would be equally nervous.

As for what you say "you have". I seriously hope you treat her with more respect than you are giving her on the AT Forums here.

-Kevin

I understand that you look towards the book for guidance and direction, but you really shouldn't let that stop you from listening to those who are far more experienced than you are. You have never been married and you have never had sex. You have no experience. If you ask the majority of people who are married and have been married for a while they will tell you how important being sexually compatible is despite your love and commitment towards the woman. I'm not saying that your way doesn't work for some people and nor am I saying that you should do something which you do not believe is right, but just understand that the odds are against you if you continue walking this path.

I know it isn't easy. Not something you guys want to hear more than likely, but Jesus being crucified wasn't easy either.

Your argument is pointless, he's doing it because of God. I agree with you on the emotional/spiritual/physical though. I consider myself a Christian, but don't agree with the "premarital sex is bad" clause.

I don't mean to come off as rude or judgemental in anyway, but I honestly don't know how you can call yourself a Christian when you don't agree with God's word completely. The Bible, as you know, didn't say to believe part of its teachings. What don't you agree with about it? Not in anyway trying to mislead you, but I am curious and merely interested in the discussion.

I'm not doing it because of God. I'm doing it for God.

-Kevin

Do you do any kind of work on Sunday's? Ever?

Do you eat shellfish?

I'm sure you don't follow everything in there, so you're just coming off as a hypocrite.

Ironically enough, I do not eat shellfish . I'm not too big on sea food.

As for the "Remember the Sabbath Day and keep it Holy" (ie: Sunday) you are misinterpreting the commandment.

As for the hypocrite remark-- there isn't much to say there. I, unlike a lot of so called "Christians", believe every single word of the Bible. I know I fall short of the commandments every day in my life. Every time I get angry at someone I feel myself pulled further away from God.

The difference between that and any other group is that Jesus died to save us from that. He was perfect so that, even though we try and fail, it is through his grace and love that we are made perfect.

You call me a hypocrite, I say absolutely. I wish I was perfect and could live 100% like Jesus did, but I can't and I accept that. I certainly hope I show in my posts here how I keep God as the central focus and boast only in him.

-Kevin

:thumbsup:

 

[hellokeith]

Clean living has some very beneficial social advantages. I am Cytomegalovirus seronegative. My blood can be transfused to newborn infants and is one of the reasons I am a regular voluntary blood donor.

Transmission of HCMV occurs from person to person through bodily fluids. Infection requires close, intimate contact with a person excreting the virus in their saliva, urine, or other bodily fluids.

That alone is a great reason not to sleep around.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

Really? I don't have any std's nor have I ever - not even crabs. I don't personally know anyone who has either. I wonder how prevalent it really is...

Yeah, but do you ask everyone you meet if they've ever had an STD? I don't know about you, but getting/having an STD isn't exactly something I'd go around announcing to people, even close friends or family. Saying that is like the fat kid in Stand By Me saying he never knew anyone who fainted before, only you're probably more likely to know someone who's had an STD than someone who fainted.

That's a good point. But don't people with std's look funny or walk funny?

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Considering how many people have stds, sex is dangerous.

crossing the street is dangerous, but people still do it every day.

Crossing the street is arguably more necessary for most people than having sex.

False.

If you don't cross the street you are merely limited to things on your side of the street.

If you don't have sex, THE HUMAN RACE DIES OUT.

Not everyone has a desire to reproduce though. That's why I said arguably. For someone who lives in the middle of the city but has no desire to have children, crossing the street is necessary, but sex is not. For a couple who lives out in the suburbs that wants to have children, sex is necessary, but crossing the street probably isn't. They most likely drive everywhere.

I just meant you need to evaluate the statement on an individual basis. Not everyone wants children.

You're obviously uninformed and haven't read the thread a month or so ago about not having kids and being looked down upon by others. Those who consciously decide to not have kids are going against their church and shitting on their parents.
:disgust:

 

[Orsorum]

I am a virgin by choice at the age of 24. I am not a Christian. I made the choice several years ago that I wanted to wait until I was in a committed adult relationship until I had intercourse. I have never regretted it.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I am a virgin by choice at the age of 24. I am not a Christian. I made the choice several years ago that I wanted to wait until I was in a committed adult relationship until I had intercourse. I have never regretted it.

Great - I hope it works out for you. You have more willpower than I do. There would be fewer people in this world - something I happen to think would be a good thing - if people waited until they were in an adult relationship. Some don't have adult relationships until their 50-60's and others never do.

btw, a virgin and not a christian: I'm having a hard time assigning a label - and everyone needs a label... :disgust:

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I am a virgin by choice at the age of 24. I am not a Christian. I made the choice several years ago that I wanted to wait until I was in a committed adult relationship until I had intercourse. I have never regretted it.

Great - I hope it works out for you. You have more willpower than I do. There would be fewer people in this world - something I happen to think would be a good thing - if people waited until they were in an adult relationship. Some don't have adult relationships until their 50-60's and others never do.

btw, a virgin and not a christian: I'm having a hard time assigning a label - and everyone needs a label... :disgust:

Well if it's not for religious purposes, I have no idea why someone would do this. Even the most chaste women are going to outcast a non-religious man that has never been with a woman past his mid 20's at the very best.

I am thinking this is like my original point...since noone is coming around it's easier to say 'it's because I don't want to'.

Are you at least dating? Even the most devout Christians date...it's the idea to finding someone to marry.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I am a virgin by choice at the age of 24. I am not a Christian. I made the choice several years ago that I wanted to wait until I was in a committed adult relationship until I had intercourse. I have never regretted it.

Great - I hope it works out for you. You have more willpower than I do. There would be fewer people in this world - something I happen to think would be a good thing - if people waited until they were in an adult relationship. Some don't have adult relationships until their 50-60's and others never do.

btw, a virgin and not a christian: I'm having a hard time assigning a label - and everyone needs a label... :disgust:

Well if it's not for religious purposes, I have no idea why someone would do this. Even the most chaste women are going to outcast a non-religious man that has never been with a woman past his mid 20's at the very best.

I am thinking this is like my original point...since noone is coming around it's easier to say 'it's because I don't want to'.

Are you at least dating? Even the most devout Christians date...it's the idea to finding someone to marry.

Can you imagine explaining to a woman that, no you've never had sex, you were waiting for her. Some women would find this incredibly romantic. Writing this made me think of another possibility. What if, after saving yourself, you fell in love with a "very experienced" person? If this wasn't acceptable, the number of available mates could be quite small.