Is homosexuallity something you are born with?

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: AEB
so its a mutatin is what ur saying like downs? i dont think so

Well that's an inelegant way of putting it but yes, it is. It has been pretty damn well established by that study, which may or may not hold any weight with you. Basically the study indicates you choose to not be homosexual about as well as you can choose not to be schizophrenic or colorblind.

The word "mutation" implies genetic differences. What are they?

 

[godspeedx]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
I simply don't think people would choose to be gay. Read this thread if you wonder why. I believe that it is biological - perhaps genetic, maybe hormonal. Something happened at a crucial stage of development that altered sexuality.

My uncle came out recently, and you would have thought that he had cancer the way that he was carrying on. Deep abject sobbing. There were years of pain there that he tried to mask with a failed marriage and 3 children.

I refuse to believe that it is a choice.

It's not so much a choice to BECOME gay, but a choice to become STRAIGHT, once being gay. Something in your past or whatever (I don't really know much about that) could have caused you to have attractions to the same sex, but you can become straight.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: AEB
i dont buy it people who did that study probably say ADD cant be helped either, like savage says when a young boy starts to show signs of masculinity and acts like a kid all these "experts" say he needs drugs. its rediculous people are just being given excuses for their behavior. You can help being gay its a choice.

Having ADD I can tell you it does exist, but I agree it's utter crap the way it's treated today. I think it is incredibly overdiagnosed, so far that I would venture only 5%-10% of people diagnosed with it actually have the disease. The symptoms can be caused by so many other things (protein defficiency, drinking caffiene, etc) but very few parents bother to check out the other possibilities, partially because most experts would rather say ADD than "get your kid to excercise more and drink less goddamn soda."

 

[BAMAVOO]

Quote

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Originally posted by: jjones
Gay people are gay by their own disgusting choice, it's not some disease they are born with. They could be normal if they wanted to, they just like being gay to be different or they have too many insecurities with the opposite sex. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Do you get some sort of thrill by being such an incredible ass?

HA HA HA HA

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: AEB
so its a mutatin is what ur saying like downs? i dont think so

Well that's an inelegant way of putting it but yes, it is. It has been pretty damn well established by that study, which may or may not hold any weight with you. Basically the study indicates you choose to not be homosexual about as well as you can choose not to be schizophrenic or colorblind.

The word "mutation" implies genetic differences. What are they?

Ahh... didn't realize it implied genetic differences. Insofar as the study was able to determine there are effectively none, at least in the fetus. Like I said, it's all in fetal development and how the hormones are introduced. If the brain develops female but the body develops male... well there you go.

EDIT: Left something out

 

[AEB]

no ADD is caused by understimmulation they said i had it when i was in grade school just because i was acting like a kid, they wanted to put me on ridlin(stimulant) to calm me down, but all my dad did was say "calm down or your going to be punished" so i relaxed thats all it is. if i was put on the medicine then i would have an excuse for my behavior, which would have allowed me to grow up blaming everything i did on other people instead of taking persoanl reponsability.

But i think this thread is gonna just get lame becuase there really is no way to prove it. someone make a thread about abortion

 

[Moonbeam]

but all my dad did was say "calm down or your going to be punished" so i relaxed
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and now I know everything.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: AEB
no ADD is caused by understimmulation they said i had it when i was in grade school just because i was acting like a kid, they wanted to put me on ridlin(stimulant) to calm me down, but all my dad did was say "calm down or your going to be punished" so i relaxed thats all it is. if i was put on the medicine then i would have an excuse for my behavior, which would have allowed me to grow up blaming everything i did on other people instead of taking persoanl reponsability.

Once again, it's time to cite another study.

A recent study published in the American Journal of Medicine (I think. Check the CHADD site for info) determined that the brains of patients diagnosed with ADD (by eliminating other known factors like protein deficciency) behaved in a manner that was described as "Adrenaline-hungry". In instances where adrenaline was not being produced -- i.e. everyday mundane stuff -- brainwaves slumped and turned towards memory and recollection in order to produce more adrenaline. When given medication (something like Ritalin) the brain no longer behaved in this adrenaline-hungry manner. So far they're not sure what it is about Ritalin and other medications which causes that, just the relation between the two.

Anyway, that doesn't mean kids can escape responsibility. I've learned over the years to write important things down since I'll never remember them otherwise. If the kid doesn't and forgets an assignment it's still their fault.

 

[TheNinja]

Still, you cannot argue the fact that it isn't natural as I pointed out earlier and therefore is not something you are born with:

"Let's look at it on a strictly natural and physical level. #1:Men and Women need to have sex to make more humans. If we were all homosexual our race would die out, hence it is the order of nature that we are heterosexual. #2:When you go to plug in your lamp, do you try to plug it into another plug? No you plug it into the socket. Take a look at the male/femal anatomy certain things just fit better in certain areas."

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Staley8
Still, you cannot argue the fact that it isn't natural as I pointed out earlier and therefore is not something you are born with

Sure I can. Just because it isn't natural doesn't mean you aren't born with it. Siamese twins aren't natural. Schizophrenia isn't natural. Hell, having a unibrow isn't natural. All of these things -- okay, not the unibrow -- people are born with.

 

[Vic]

I fail to see how the tendency to commit a particular act can be genetic. However, I really don't care what they do either, and I respect the right for them to make their own consensual choices as well.

 

[Hossenfeffer]

Originally posted by: Staley8
Still, you cannot argue the fact that it isn't natural as I pointed out earlier and therefore is not something you are born with:

"Let's look at it on a strictly natural and physical level. #1:Men and Women need to have sex to make more humans. If we were all homosexual our race would die out, hence it is the order of nature that we are heterosexual. #2:When you go to plug in your lamp, do you try to plug it into another plug? No you plug it into the socket. Take a look at the male/femal anatomy certain things just fit better in certain areas."

Actually, this doesn't really say anything about how homosexuality couldn't be natural. All you do is say that, in order to further the species, you would need to mate with someone of the opposite sex.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Vic
I fail to see how the tendency to commit a particular act can be genetic.

Welllll... there's always Nymphomania. And being Psychotic. Sociopathy and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder as well. All documented disorders linked to genetics.

 

[Hossenfeffer]

Originally posted by: Vic
I fail to see how the tendency to commit a particular act can be genetic. However, I really don't care what they do either, and I respect the right for them to make their own consensual choices as well.

This operates under the assumption that all homosexuals engage in sexual acts. I know several that don't.

 

[guapo337]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: guapo337
people can be born with certain curiousities? and homosexuality is a curiousity? so you're saying that you can be born with homosexual curiousities, and you just may not act on them. therefore, you are a non-practicing homosexual.

LOL, I must be a non-practicing mass murderer, specifically murderer of telemarketers, people who drive slow in the fast lane and lazy teenagers who f%$# up my food order at Taco Bell.

Originally posted by: DougK62
I have not seen anything that suggests that homosexuals are chemically different than heterosexuals. So I strongly feel that it is something that occurs after birth. It is my belief that children are born with no sexual orientation. IMO, sexual orientation is likely not a deliberate choice, but is determined by outside factors at usually very young ages. What are these determining factors? Your guess is as good as mine, and I bet they're different for everybody.

To be fair I should point out that extreme childhood trauma, typically something like being sexually abused, can cause someone's sexuality to be affected. I wouldn't however call that being homosexual so much as being f%$#ed up.

obviously, you've never heard the term "non-practicing homosexual". there are many people out there who are admittedly homosexual, and yet do not act on their desires, as they see it as wrong or disgusting. they ADMIT they are homosexual, and yet do not chose to act on what they were BORN with.

 

[jamesave]

I think it's a choice/environmental effects.

Tons of circumstances, based on their 'history', such as:
sexual abuse when they where youth, or parents behavior to their kids.

I have a gay friend that not necessarily sexually abused (well, he didn't tell me if it happened or not) but he was taught to be dressy, and so on since kid.

It's an interesting fact to see that no other species that show the homosexuality. Please correct me if I am wrong with my previous sentence.

 

[guapo337]

yeah sure, maybe homosexuality isnt the "correct" form of sexual orientation, however, as i said earlier, is anything perfect?

 

[Vonkhan]

i think gays are born gay.

at first i had a huge problem with gays, hated them.

then i didn't care

then i was assigned a gay roommate :disgust: ... led to all sorts of problems and ended with me beating the living daylights out of two of them who tried to stop me from getting into my room.

got annoyed with gays after that

gay resident director of the dorms gave me attitude and multiplied my problems after that altho the incident had nothing to do with him

got REALLY annoyed with gays

gays spray painted my car with rainbow colors and a gay warning "not to mess with them". security camera caught them in the act and they recieved "a warning".

started hating gays again, not for what they are but for the ridiculous way they behave.

sorry.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: guapo337
obviously, you've never heard the term "non-practicing homosexual". there are many people out there who are admittedly homosexual, and yet do not act on their desires, as they see it as wrong or disgusting. they ADMIT they are homosexual, and yet do not chose to act on what they were BORN with.

Nope, never heard that before. But given your description I still am a non-practicing mass murderer.

 

[Siddhartha]

I am not sure how clear cut the line is between homosexuals and heterosexuals
Heterosexuals exhibit homosexual behavior in prison and homosexuals marry
and exhibit heterosexual behavior.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Vic
I fail to see how the tendency to commit a particular act can be genetic.

Welllll... there's always Nymphomania. And being Psychotic. Sociopathy and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder as well. All documented disorders linked to genetics.

You are so right... we are none of us responsible for our choices.

Our fates no longer lie in our stars, nor even in ourselves, but in our genes.

:disgust:

Originally posted by: Hossenfeffer
This operates under the assumption that all homosexuals engage in sexual acts. I know several that don't.

To each his own, I always say...

editted: fixed formatting

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Vic
I fail to see how the tendency to commit a particular act can be genetic.

Welllll... there's always Nymphomania. And being Psychotic. Sociopathy and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder as well. All documented disorders linked to genetics.

You are so right... we are none of us responsible for our choices.

Our fates no longer lie in our stars, nor even in ourselves, but in our genes.

:disgust:

If you are somehow saying that things like Schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder don't exist then try spending some time with someone who has both. Or even better, take LSD for about a week straight so you can experience what it's like to be Schizophrenic. I doubt you'll ever make a comment like that again.

 

[Hossenfeffer]

Originally posted by: jamesave

It's an interesting fact to see that no other species that show the homosexuality. Please correct me if I am wrong with my previous sentence.

I could be crazy, but I swear that other people have cited places that show homosexuality in other species.

EDIT: First google response I found has an essay and a number of pro/con replies (I think). I make no claims for the validity, bias, etc. of this page but it mentioned some aspects of what has been discussed. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
If you are somehow saying that things like Schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder don't exist then try spending some time with someone who has both. Or even better, take LSD for about a week straight so you can experience what it's like to be Schizophrenic. I doubt you'll ever make a comment like that again.

So being homosexual is now a mental disorder? Similar to schizophrenia? That's pretty negative, don't you think? If I was gay, then I think I'd prefer to have it thought of as a choice than some kind of undesirable genetic disease...

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yukichigai
If you are somehow saying that things like Schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder don't exist then try spending some time with someone who has both. Or even better, take LSD for about a week straight so you can experience what it's like to be Schizophrenic. I doubt you'll ever make a comment like that again.

So being homosexual is now a mental disorder? Similar to schizophrenia? That's pretty negative, don't you think? If I was gay, then I think I'd prefer to have it thought of as a choice than some kind of undesirable genetic disease...

Yeah, I know, not the most positive thing in the world but that's what the evidence shows. Of course it's not a disorder if you don't think of it as a bad thing. I imagine there was a period where red hair was a disorder of sorts. But yes, medically you could say it's a disorder.